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MAN BITES DOG: Religion files lawsuit!

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Steve
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Stace

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Hmm. I'd have to side with the University here. Universities are private schools in and of themselves, since they a)charge tuition; b)do not have to accept every applicant; c)can choose which course they teach......etc., etc.

When you break it down that way, it's one private school getting upset because another private school doesn't like some of their courses.


Should I sue my high school because they wouldn't allow me to transfer credits I earned while in middle school (I was taking advanced courses, and if we hadn't moved right before I started high school, the credits would have transferred)? Hardly.

The article said that UC simply denied students admissions credits based on certain courses, not that they denied them admittance because they took those courses.

I honestly don't see where the problem is.
 

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Stace said:
Hmm. I'd have to side with the University here. Universities are private schools in and of themselves, since they a)charge tuition; b)do not have to accept every applicant; c)can choose which course they teach......etc., etc.

When you break it down that way, it's one private school getting upset because another private school doesn't like some of their courses.
But its more than that - the University won't allow the credit because it says the courses leave out information that is required to go further in one's education.

Kind of like a prerequisite to qualify for a college course. You can't take Advanced Autocad until you've taken Intro to Autocad. And if you take Intro to Autocad in a course that leaves out required information, you still can't take Advanced. You'd be lost, unable to understand the next step, because you were underinformed or misinformed in the previous step. The University would be lowering its standards by giving credit for unqualified courses.
 

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tryreading said:
But its more than that - the University won't allow the credit because it says the courses leave out information that is required to go further in one's education.

Kind of like a prerequisite to qualify for a college course. You can't take Advanced Autocad until you've taken Intro to Autocad. And if you take Intro to Autocad in a course that leaves out required information, you still can't take Advanced. You'd be lost, unable to understand the next step, because you were underinformed or misinformed in the previous step. The University would be lowering its standards by giving credit for unqualified courses.
This is very true. Wonder why those 4,000 Christian schools can't see that?
 

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Stace said:
This is very true. Wonder why those 4,000 Christian schools can't see that?
If they lose the lawsuit, will they alter their courses? Or will they appeal to a higher court? Probably the latter.

If they win, then the university will be taking students who are ignorant, unprepared. Of course, they can appeal too.

I think it is fine for the private schools to teach Christian creationism, or ID, but teaching it as an alternative theory to evolution is silly. Couldn't they both have happened? And if they want to teach it, teach evolution too, or they are cheating their students out of a proper education.

I don't understand why many Christians choose to oppose evolution. Was God not capable of causing it?
 

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I don't understand why many Christians choose to oppose evolution. Was God not capable of causing it?
Their religion is not about God, it is about a book describing the life of a 2000-year old prophet of whom they presume his lessons were meant to be applied in our current age.

Regarding this new trend with universities and lawsuits, I think this is a good thing. The outcome of this suit and various others will begin to settle the dispute religion and 'science' are having in the US and bring some definite closure. Why it is happening now with such media attention I am unsure of. The US has seen creationism and its attempt to go into schools before. I wonder whether in 60 years we'll be reliving this whole thing again..

Mr U
 

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HU-210 said:
Their religion is not about God, it is about a book describing the life of a 2000-year old prophet of whom they presume his lessons were meant to be applied in our current age.

Regarding this new trend with universities and lawsuits, I think this is a good thing. The outcome of this suit and various others will begin to settle the dispute religion and 'science' are having in the US and bring some definite closure. Why it is happening now with such media attention I am unsure of. The US has seen creationism and its attempt to go into schools before. I wonder whether in 60 years we'll be reliving this whole thing again..

Mr U
I don't think we'll ever have closure on this, it is ongoing, and I think we will be doing this 60 years from now.
 
J

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I'm going to have to go with the university as well. All other things aside, when push comes to shove, the case is about whether or not the university is "discriminating against them by setting admissions rules that violate their rights to freedom of speech and religion."

Personally, I'd have to say that setting admissions rules allows the school to teach anything they want in addition to standardized material. If they don't want to teach the standardized material, they don't have to, the course just won't be accepted by the university. Either way, the private school has the final say in what they are going to teach and their freedom of speech and freedom of religion are in no way being discriminated against.

The only way in which I see the school winning against the university would be if the courses did meet the guidelines given by the university and were just rejected because they were Christian. I doubt this is the case, but I really don't have any information that seems to back up my hunch.
 

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Yes religion killed my dog too.

Keep up the demonizing.
 

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Just A Guy said:
I'm going to have to go with the university as well. All other things aside, when push comes to shove, the case is about whether or not the university is "discriminating against them by setting admissions rules that violate their rights to freedom of speech and religion."

Personally, I'd have to say that setting admissions rules allows the school to teach anything they want in addition to standardized material. If they don't want to teach the standardized material, they don't have to, the course just won't be accepted by the university. Either way, the private school has the final say in what they are going to teach and their freedom of speech and freedom of religion are in no way being discriminated against.

The only way in which I see the school winning against the university would be if the courses did meet the guidelines given by the university and were just rejected because they were Christian. I doubt this is the case, but I really don't have any information that seems to back up my hunch.
Agreed. The private schools have the right to teach and say whatever they want, but universities are in no way obligated to accept their courses for credit if they are sub-par.
 

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Red-Phase said:
Yes religion killed my dog too.

Keep up the demonizing.
Most of us have been pretty reasonable here. Why this response?
 

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tryreading said:
Most of us have been pretty reasonable here. Why this response?
No kidding....I wonder if he bothered to actually read the thread, or if he's trying to establish himself as a badass. :confused:
 

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Stace said:
No kidding....I wonder if he bothered to actually read the thread, or if he's trying to establish himself as a badass. :confused:
I bet he didn't read the article, either.

Sort of related to this thread, the school voucher system here in Florida was just ruled un-Constitutional by the District Court of Appeals. In the program, public money is spent sending kids to private schools, many of them religious. The case will likely be taken to the State Supreme Court next, as Jeb Bush is very unhappy with the decision.
 

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tryreading said:
I bet he didn't read the article, either.

Sort of related to this thread, the school voucher system here in Florida was just ruled un-Constitutional by the District Court of Appeals. In the program, public money is spent sending kids to private schools, many of them religious. The case will likely be taken to the State Supreme Court next, as Jeb Bush is very unhappy with the decision.
Haha, I wonder why ol' Jeb's unhappy? Good for your Court of Appeals....I certainly wouldn't want to pay for someone else's kid to attend a religious private school....can't wait to see what the Supreme Court says...
 

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Stace said:
Haha, I wonder why ol' Jeb's unhappy? Good for your Court of Appeals....I certainly wouldn't want to pay for someone else's kid to attend a religious private school....can't wait to see what the Supreme Court says...
I think they will also rule the practice un-Constitutional.
 

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I myself think public education should be semi-privatized, so I have no problem with tax dollars going to a voucher to send somebody to a Catholic or Protestant school, so long as they are also spent to send people to Jewish, Mormon, and Muslim schools as well. Just as long as it is not going to schools for Moonies, Scientologist, and other crazy businesses... er, uh, religions.
 

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Axismaster said:
I myself think public education should be semi-privatized, so I have no problem with tax dollars going to a voucher to send somebody to a Catholic or Protestant school, so long as they are also spent to send people to Jewish, Mormon, and Muslim schools as well. Just as long as it is not going to schools for Moonies, Scientologist, and other crazy businesses... er, uh, religions.
Who are you to say that Scientology is any less of a valid religion than Christianity or Judaism?

Either way, having vouchers specifically to pay for children to go to private school ends up becoming a de facto funding of religious schools by the government - something like 94% of private schools are religious. Not only that, it was decided recently in a federal court that parents don't have any inherent rights over the public education of their children - they are not entitled to determine how their tax money is spent when it comes to education.
 

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Axismaster said:
I myself think public education should be semi-privatized, so I have no problem with tax dollars going to a voucher to send somebody to a Catholic or Protestant school, so long as they are also spent to send people to Jewish, Mormon, and Muslim schools as well. Just as long as it is not going to schools for Moonies, Scientologist, and other crazy businesses... er, uh, religions.
It doesn't matter if you spread it around among schools of various denominations, the practice is clearly un-Constitutional. My tax dollars cannot pay for somebody's child to go to a religious school, no matter the religion. This is government establishment of religion.

There has been talk of privatizing the public school system, and if this can be done with proper oversight, and it improves the quality of education, I'm for it too.
 
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