Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting

ttwtt78640 · Jan 1, 2018

holbritter said:
Stories like that? I seriously hope not! Although over 400 calls over a year in this country that fit this category of 'swatting' is too many, it's not a usual incident in many cities and towns.

In this day of cell phones, how would you know if it's really local? You take your number with you. Whatever your area code is will show up regardless where you are, so if I'm in CA and call 911, it's going to show up as a NY number. Should they say never mind then? Yeah, they could eventually figure it out, but that takes time.

You don't seem to realize the seriousness of what the call was. They have to take every call seriously, it's their job. Do you want to have to call for an emergency, oh say, someone in your house with a gun, and they tell you they have to verify everything first? And quiz you to see if you are making it up?

Not me. If they ever get a call when my life might be in danger, I'd like them to show up quickly please.

There is a huge difference in police "showing up quickly" and simply eliminating any perceived threat by shooting a person at that address who might have a gun. There are two crimes here: making an intentionally false police report and the execution of a person because they were present at an alleged crime in progress scene.

Let's change the first factor slightly and only vary the street address given (e.g. a real crime in progress is being reported but the address given, or relayed by the dispatcher, is incorrect) - does that make the actions of the responding officers any better? "SWATting" is only serious because of the propensity of the (excessive?) police response to end very badly even if no criminal activity is noted when responding to the call.

holbritter · Jan 1, 2018

ttwtt78640 said:
There is a huge difference in police "showing up quickly" and simply eliminating any perceived threat by shooting a person at that address who might have a gun. There are two crimes here: making an intentionally false police report and the execution of a person because they were present at an alleged crime in progress scene.

Let's change the first factor slightly and only vary the street address given (e.g. a real crime in progress is being reported but the address given, or relayed by the dispatcher, is incorrect) - does that make the actions of the responding officers any better? "SWATting" is only serious because of the propensity of the (excessive?) police response to end very badly even if no criminal activity is noted when responding to the call.

I agree. My beef is with people who totally jump at the chance to blame cops and not even consider anything else, who arrogantly believe they know how to handle every situation in every instance. More like trolling and I shouldn't respond to it.

It was a horrible incident anyway you look at it, but I don't just dismiss the caller's responsibility in all of this either. It didn't have to happen if the cops acted differently AND it equally didn't have to happen if that asshole didn't make the phone call for freaking kicks. Take the call out and it wouldn't even be a thought. 100% not happening.

PirateMk1 · Jan 1, 2018

holbritter said:
Stories like that? I seriously hope not! Although over 400 calls over a year in this country that fit this category of 'swatting' is too many, it's not a usual incident in many cities and towns.

In this day of cell phones, how would you know if it's really local? You take your number with you. Whatever your area code is will show up regardless where you are, so if I'm in CA and call 911, it's going to show up as a NY number. Should they say never mind then? Yeah, they could eventually figure it out, but that takes time.

You don't seem to realize the seriousness of what the call was. They have to take every call seriously, it's their job. Do you want to have to call for an emergency, oh say, someone in your house with a gun, and they tell you they have to verify everything first? And quiz you to see if you are making it up?

Not me. If they ever get a call when my life might be in danger, I'd like them to show up quickly please.

I don't worry about violence perpetrated by outsiders in my home. Their lifespans would be measured in seconds and the police would never know unless they were the perpetrators. My household is filled with skilled practitioners of applied violence. I for one would not want to show up uninvited to my home, the people in it live for that sort of thing and very rarely get it.

Deuce · Jan 1, 2018

holbritter said:
None of you armchair quarterbacks have the balls to do the job that they do.

Deal with the **** they deal with day in and day out, putting themselves out there as targets in uniforms because people these days think nothing of killing each other over dirty looks. And try and save innocent people from the actions of others, even ignorant people that think they know how to do their job better. Tell the wives and family of those cops who were killed just because they wore a uniform, that their loved one doesn't do their job right because you know better how to react in any given situation. I dare you.

Cops having a dangerous job doesn't justify murdering innocent people, I dare you to suggest it does to the family of the victim of this murder by cop

Indian Giver · Jan 1, 2018

Kal'Stang said:
Because that means that I'm going to definitely be dead. I don't know about you..but I like living.

You must be a bad shot. The idea is for you to remain living and kill the cop, if necessary. If the cops don't escalate things then they can live too, see how that works?

Kal'Stang · Jan 1, 2018

Indian Giver said:
You must be a bad shot. The idea is for you to remain living and kill the cop, if necessary. If the cops don't escalate things then they can live too, see how that works?

Seriously? You really think that a dozen or two cops are not going to shoot at the person shooting at them? And do you seriously think that one person can take out a dozen or two cops storming the place? What the hell kind of fantasy world are you living in?

Indian Giver · Jan 1, 2018

Kal'Stang said:
Seriously? You really think that a dozen or two cops are not going to shoot at the person shooting at them? And do you seriously think that one person can take out a dozen or two cops storming the place? What the hell kind of fantasy world are you living in?

I expect them to return fire - after all they initiated the firefight. In that situation you need to set up some type of tactical security. Do you think that cops are super-human and invincible?

If the cops don't want me shooting back at them then they shouldn't shoot at me.

Kal'Stang · Jan 1, 2018

Indian Giver said:
I expect them to return fire - after all they initiated the firefight. In that situation you need to set up some type of tactical security. Do you think that cops are super-human and invincible?

If the cops don't want me shooting back at them then they shouldn't shoot at me.

:roll: Ok Big Man on the Halo Leader Boards. Whatever you say.

Nap · Jan 1, 2018

Lord of Planar said:
So you are OK with a police killing someone just because they are to scared to do the job, and pee their panties?

If they are on edge, they shouldn't have a firearm.

Period!

No way?

Like maybe making a phone call to the inside? Even if it was cell phones only, the police would have access to phone numbers of the people living there. Did they even try telephonic communications?

From their perspective the phone call was from the inside. The phone number on the 911 call came from that residence. When did police start getting registration of cell phones? This is a local police department not the CIA, in an emergency situation like described in the 911 call they don't have the resources or time to track down cell numbers to who possibly lives at that address.

Nap · Jan 1, 2018

Indian Giver said:
What danger? There was no one else in the room.

Brailsford is a trigger happy murderer and I won't cry a bit if someone points a gun at him, makes him crawl, and shoots him.

He deserves nothing less.

Did the police know that?

Indian Giver · Jan 1, 2018

Nap said:
Did the police know that?

Yes, they were told that no one was in the room. If they were going to ignore that information then they should not have asked.

That is irrelevant. Shaver was put into an unneccearily complicated situation and given instructions that were impossible to carry out perfectly. Watch that video and then try to do what he had to do (crawling forward with his legs crossed behind him) - and then imagine multiple AR-15's pointed at you. You would mess up too and be dead.

All they had to do was ask him to put his hands up and walk forward so that they could detain him.

trblmkr · Jan 1, 2018

Kal'Stang said:
:roll: Hyperbole much? There is never any reason to shoot at cops unless they are doing something tyrannical consistently and across the nation. Out of 10s of millions of interactions an average of 1500 kills a year, of which the majority is justified, there is no reason to shoot cops. You fight em in the court room if necessary. Not with a gun.

The majority of which are "ruled justified", usually by the department themselves. Are you aware that the FBI independently rules on every one of their shoots. And they have never, ever, ruled one unjustified. Could be true, but the odds say otherwise. And of the 1500 or so kills a year at least 500 are of unarmed individuals and some are children. Not even teenagers.
I very much appreciate the job of law enforcement. I participated in a student program while a senior in high school in 1971 with the Sonoma County sheriff's dept. After 3 months of ride alongs, etc, I realized it wasn't for me. The job has just gotten more dangerous with the proliferation of weapons. I do not blame them for being more cautious. I do blame them for careless behavior, failures of judgement, and the failure to properly screen applicants for the mental ability to do the job properly.

eohrnberger · Jan 1, 2018

holbritter said:
None of you armchair quarterbacks have the balls to do the job that they do.

Deal with the **** they deal with day in and day out, putting themselves out there as targets in uniforms because people these days think nothing of killing each other over dirty looks. And try and save innocent people from the actions of others, even ignorant people that think they know how to do their job better. Tell the wives and family of those cops who were killed just because they wore a uniform, that their loved one doesn't do their job right because you know better how to react in any given situation. I dare you.

Agreed. No one who isn't in the job and dealing with the **** on a day to day basis can't really second guess.

Further, given what these cops go through on a day to day basis, I think those claiming racial profiling need to walk in those shoes for a mile.

Nap · Jan 1, 2018

Indian Giver said:
Yes, they were told that no one was in the room. If they were going to ignore that information then they should not have asked.

That is irrelevant. Shaver was put into an unneccearily complicated situation and given instructions that were impossible to carry out perfectly. Watch that video and then try to do what he had to do (crawling forward with his legs crossed behind him) - and then imagine multiple AR-15's pointed at you. You would mess up too and be dead.

All they had to do was ask him to put his hands up and walk forward so that they could detain him.

I'm not saying they were perfect in how they handled the situation, however the person with him was able to follow the directions and was detained without incident. I have had cops pull guns on me before, I followed directions and lived to tell about it.

Lord of Planar · Jan 1, 2018

HowardBThiname said:
I could be totally wrong, but it seems as if the cops weren't just looking after their safety, but, because the caller said he'd already killed and was prepared to kill again, they were intent on stopping that as well. I think there's always a question of when should a cop use deadly force to prevent additional killings? Should they wait until the guy points a gun directly at someone else? Should they jump the gun (as they did in this case) just because he reaches toward his waistband? The one thing we know is that the mindset of the officers was one of being involved in a murder/hostage situation where a split-second decision might be required in order to save lives. In my opinion, that's what happened here. It was the caller that created that mindset. Had the caller reported a lost dog, the mindset would have been very different.

It went bad here, we can all agree on that, and I think we can also agree that the officer who fired is probably too emotional to work in that career, but we still have to put the blame where it really lies -- on the person whose actions led the police to the door of an innocent person that night. The police believed the caller, that's why the shooting occurred.

And, on some level, I'd bet the little asshole that made the call was hoping for this type of an outcome. He'd already done time for making multiple bomb-threat calls to a TV station. I don't believe he didn't know the risk he was putting on innocent people. He knew better. He'd already gone to prison for hoax calls. He was just upping the ante here. This was not a teenager or a first offense. Laws are being considered in different states to make punishments much more severe for swatting, because this "game" is endangering lives.

Wow...

No regard for the innocent?

False reports come in all the time. This was one of them. The police are not unaware that they occur.

New police motto: "Protect my own ass and kill."

Lord of Planar · Jan 1, 2018

holbritter said:
None of you armchair quarterbacks have the balls to do the job that they do.

Deal with the **** they deal with day in and day out, putting themselves out there as targets in uniforms because people these days think nothing of killing each other over dirty looks. And try and save innocent people from the actions of others, even ignorant people that think they know how to do their job better. Tell the wives and family of those cops who were killed just because they wore a uniform, that their loved one doesn't do their job right because you know better how to react in any given situation. I dare you.

I have the balls, but my job pays better, and I don't like being an enforcer in authoritarian ways. It takes a special type on person to be want to be a police officer. Either one who truly wants to protect the public, or one who wants to abuse his power of authority. I believe the ones who truly want to help the public become fire fighters instead.

Lord of Planar · Jan 1, 2018

holbritter said:
I agree. My beef is with people who totally jump at the chance to blame cops and not even consider anything else, who arrogantly believe they know how to handle every situation in every instance. More like trolling and I shouldn't respond to it.

It was a horrible incident anyway you look at it, but I don't just dismiss the caller's responsibility in all of this either. It didn't have to happen if the cops acted differently AND it equally didn't have to happen if that asshole didn't make the phone call for freaking kicks. Take the call out and it wouldn't even be a thought. 100% not happening.

I'm sorry. I do blame the police. I agree the false call started the ball rolling on this, but once on the scene, the police need to maintain professionalism and ethics, and not act like Blackwater in a war zone.

Why do so many have itchy finger syndrome?

Lord of Planar · Jan 1, 2018

Nap said:
Did the police know that?

Does it matter in this case what the knew and didn't?

There were no signs of any illegal activity. Only the phone call.

Any one with half a brain knows you verify things.

Nap · Jan 1, 2018

Lord of Planar said:
Does it matter in this case what the knew and didn't?

There were no signs of any illegal activity. Only the phone call.

Any one with half a brain knows you verify things.

Actually it does. It would be incredibly dangerous to try and check someone for weapons and try to detain them in front of an open doorway. If there was someone armed inside the room (which they had reason to believe) then that would have effectively left them wide open to be killed. Given the current outbreak of cop killings and ambushes it would be ridiculous to ask cops to put themselves at that kind of risk.

Lord of Planar · Jan 1, 2018

Nap said:
Actually it does. It would be incredibly dangerous to try and check someone for weapons and try to detain them in front of an open doorway. If there was someone armed inside the room (which they had reason to believe) then that would have effectively left them wide open to be killed. Given the current outbreak of cop killings and ambushes it would be ridiculous to ask cops to put themselves at that kind of risk.

Oh give me a break on the "cop killing" thing.

Excuses excuses...

How much of that might be a response for cops killing the innocent?

Nap · Jan 1, 2018

Lord of Planar said:
Oh give me a break on the "cop killing" thing.

Excuses excuses...

How much of that might be a response for cops killing the innocent?

They tend to feed off each other. More people killing cops is going to naturally make them more fearful and result in deaths, more deaths create more resentment for the police.

Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

holbritter

PirateMk1

Deuce

Outer space potato man

Indian Giver

Kal'Stang

Indian Giver

Kal'Stang

Nap

Nap

Indian Giver

trblmkr

eohrnberger

Nap

Lord of Planar

Lord of Planar

Lord of Planar

Lord of Planar

Nap

Lord of Planar

Nap

Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting

Sometimes wrong

Outer space potato man

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