Male Post-Conception Opt Out

[weaver2]

They do not take the variables into consideration...

The article took variables into consideration.

"What often gets lost in translation is what the uncontrolled wage gap truly represents — that women are less likely to hold high-level, high-paying jobs than men. There are structural barriers which keep women from advancing in the workplace– this is what we call the opportunity gap.

The controlled gender pay gap, which controls for a number of factors such as job title, years of experience, industry and location so that the only differentiation between workers is their gender, shrunk by just $0.008 since 2015. Women now make $0.98 for every dollar an equivalent man makes."

 

[trouble13]

The article took variables into consideration.

"What often gets lost in translation is what the uncontrolled wage gap truly represents — that women are less likely to hold high-level, high-paying jobs than men. There are structural barriers which keep women from advancing in the workplace– this is what we call the opportunity gap.

The controlled gender pay gap, which controls for a number of factors such as job title, years of experience, industry and location so that the only differentiation between workers is their gender, shrunk by just $0.008 since 2015. Women now make $0.98 for every dollar an equivalent man makes."

Working from the premise that everything you assert is accurate, how does that justify forcing men into fatherhood against their will?

I think what i find confusing about your position is that when it pertains to womens liberation you are very progressive. Your pro-choice, pro-equal pay and opptrotunities. When the topic is mens liberation you adopt a position i would expect someone living in the 1950s to hold. You act like women can not support themselves or their lifestyle choices without a mans contribution and the man just by virtue of being male has the responsibility to provide that to women.

Back then the law made sense but that was in the 20th century. We live in the 21st century and those laws have become outdated and antiquated. In a great part thanks to the women's liberation movement. Women no longer are at a mans mercy for a means to survive. They are strong indepent creatures with the abilities and opprotunities to make a life for themselves without mens assistance.

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[Bodi]

The article took variables into consideration.

"What often gets lost in translation is what the uncontrolled wage gap truly represents — that women are less likely to hold high-level, high-paying jobs than men. There are structural barriers which keep women from advancing in the workplace– this is what we call the opportunity gap.

The controlled gender pay gap, which controls for a number of factors such as job title, years of experience, industry and location so that the only differentiation between workers is their gender, shrunk by just $0.008 since 2015. Women now make $0.98 for every dollar an equivalent man makes."

I read all that, and... No. They do not actually address the variables. They use terms like Opportunity Gap, but they do not state what the barriers actually are or why they are valid.

 

[weaver2]

I read all that, and... No. They do not actually address the variables. They use terms like Opportunity Gap, but they do not state what the barriers actually are or why they are valid.

How about you looking up an article that says women earn the same amount when corrected for all variables.

 

[Bodi]

How about you looking up an article that says women earn the same amount when corrected for all variables.

I don't need to. I work with women already who are at the top of the teacher scale like me, and we make the exact same amount... actually, I make more than a couple of them because I have a Masters, but so does one other woman so we make the same, and the highest paid teacher at our school is a woman, because she is at the top of the scale and she has a PhD. It was like that in the States too... when I worked in fine dining... we all made the same base amount. When I worked in hotels, we all made the same base pay.

The factors that sites make mistakes about is that you can not lump a demographic like they are attempting to do. There are many categories... not one.

It is not women versus men.

It is women with a degree, or number of hours worked, or experience, etc versus a man in the same exact category.

 

[Lursa]

I don't need to. I work with women already who are at the top of the teacher scale like me, and we make the exact same amount... actually, I make more than a couple of them because I have a Masters, but so does one other woman so we make the same, and the highest paid teacher at our school is a woman, because she is at the top of the scale and she has a PhD. It was like that in the States too... when I worked in fine dining... we all made the same base amount. When I worked in hotels, we all made the same base pay.

The factors that sites make mistakes about is that you can not lump a demographic like they are attempting to do. There are many categories... not one.

It is not women versus men.

It is women with a degree, or number of hours worked, or experience, etc versus a man in the same exact category.

You are in NZ.

And the time it took them to get there may have taken longer than for a male.

But in the US, teaching has been a pretty balanced field for men and women historically...even possibly skewed more towards women. Not sure teaching is the best example.

 

[bomberfox]

TL:dr

Pretty sure only losers believe that. Women love it...respect given is respect returned.

If you choose to bestow your affections on someone with surface attractiveness or other shallow character attributes and then blame her for sticking with her? That=loser.

THere are good and bad men and women. Plenty of good ones out there. If you only attract or are attracted to the bad kind...it's you, not the gender in general.

Its amazing its not hard for someone who is asexual like me to understand how to treat women better than these bozos who thought they were nice guys.

 

[weaver2]

I read all that, and... No. They do not actually address the variables. They use terms like Opportunity Gap, but they do not state what the barriers actually are or why they are valid.[/QUOT]E]

What part of " so that the only differentiation between workers is their gender" do you not understand. Commonwealth countries have an English respect for education andteacher's pay certainly is much better and apparently more equal than in the US.

 

[weaver2]

Working from the premise that everything you assert is accurate, how does that justify forcing men into fatherhood against their will?

I think what i find confusing about your position is that when it pertains to womens liberation you are very progressive. Your pro-choice, pro-equal pay and opptrotunities. When the topic is mens liberation you adopt a position i would expect someone living in the 1950s to hold. You act like women can not support themselves or their lifestyle choices without a mans contribution and the man just by virtue of being male has the responsibility to provide that to women.

Back then the law made sense but that was in the 20th century. We live in the 21st century and those laws have become outdated and antiquated. In a great part thanks to the women's liberation movement. Women no longer are at a mans mercy for a means to survive. They are strong indepent creatures with the abilities and opprotunities to make a life for themselves without mens assistance.

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Agreed, we live in the 21st century, pay and opportunity are getting more equal. But there is still a fairly long way to go especially in the professional and executive spheres. This op-out issue is probably the only area where women have a monetary advantage over men. The complaining that this biological issue isn't fair to men is pretty weak in the fairly long history of inequality of women. It's just funny to see men are running around with their hair on fire because something isn't equal.

 

[southwest88]

Cop out, more like

You are in NZ.

And the time it took them to get there may have taken longer than for a male.

But in the US, teaching has been a pretty balanced field for men and women historically...even possibly skewed more towards women. Not sure teaching is the best example.

Exactly. St. John Dewey (of education & library fame in the US, philosopher & psychologist) deliberately encouraged local schools to hire women - because they were cheaper. (He also thought that men should be the master teachers, principals, heads of department - due to their natural superiority in dealing with recalcitrant students, difficult parents, & because they were guys - presumably - although that last is just my stab @ the rationale. He had a certain point - because men were far more likely to have attended college/university, studied the classics, Latin, Greek, the usual curriculum for the time for budding classicists & men of distinction in the professions - than were women.

Of course, that likelihood was entirely because women in general in the US (& presumably before that, in the colonies) were to be an ornament in the drawing room, run the books & household, & provide a calm & supportive environment for the menfolk of the family to get on with business.

 

[Bodi]

What part of " so that the only differentiation between workers is their gender" do you not understand. Commonwealth countries have an English respect for education andteacher's pay certainly is much better and apparently more equal than in the US.

When I see that pay is the same, when the law says that pay has to be the same, and when women tell me that the pay is the same... I don't buy some anonymous agenda driven sites claim that pay is not the same. :shrug:

 

[Bodi]

Agreed, we live in the 21st century, pay and opportunity are getting more equal. But there is still a fairly long way to go especially in the professional and executive spheres. This op-out issue is probably the only area where women have a monetary advantage over men. The complaining that this biological issue isn't fair to men is pretty weak in the fairly long history of inequality of women. It's just funny to see men are running around with their hair on fire because something isn't equal.

Opting out is not about money... it is about having equal rights regarding wanting to be a "parent" or not.

 

[Lursa]

Opting out is not about money... it is about having equal rights regarding wanting to be a "parent" or not.

What right, specifically?

Women have no 'right' to opt out of parenthood, it's a choice enabled by biology and a legal medical procedure. (and also choosing not to have sex)

 

[Bodi]

Women have no 'right' to opt out of parenthood,

:lol:

a legal medical procedure.

In which she opts out of being a parent... but I understand, you like to post lies.

 

[Lursa]

:lol:



In which she opts out of being a parent... but I understand, you like to post lies.

Yes, I never said she couldnt opt-out of being a parent. I asked you what 'right' she had to do so? What right is it?

What a pathetic response from you...no answer and calling me a liar again...which is you lying...how much more hypocritical can a post from you be?

Post after post after you bleating about equal rights...and you cant even name the right.

 

[Bodi]

..which is you lying

Lie...

Women have no 'right' to opt out of parenthood,

Lie...

Yes, I never said she couldnt opt-out of being a parent.

Lie...

I asked you what 'right' she had to do so? What right is it?

What a pathetic response from you...no answer and calling me a liar again....how much more hypocritical can a post from you be?

The right to not be a parent if you don't want to be one... but you knew that already.

Post after post after you bleating about equal rights....

Lie...

and you cant even name the right

Lie...

 

[calamity]

Lie...



Lie...



Lie...



The right to not be a parent if you don't want to be one... but you knew that already.



Lie...



Lie...

:roll:

 

[Lursa]

Lie..
Lie...
Lie...
The right to not be a parent if you don't want to be one... but you knew that already.
Lie...
Lie...

There is no right to not be a parent. You are making that up. And there are no laws stopping adults in the US from being parents. If you dont want to be a parent, then it's incumbent on you to take actions that prevent it...it's a personal responsibility that no laws interfere with...YOUR choice. And if you make a poor choice, you face consequences...just like for everything else in life. There's no right to be protected from your own poor choices. No such 'right' or law protects women from that either. So...it's "equal."

You can write 'lie' all you want, all it does it take up the space that everyone knows you should be filling with actual support for the cop-out you propose...and cannot.

 

[Bodi]

There is no right to not be a parent. You are making that up.

There is no right to breathe, either.

Say more stupid ****.

[]You can write 'lie' all you want, all it does it take up the space that everyone knows you should be filling with actual support for the cop-out you propose...and cannot.[/B]

Lie...

And there are no laws stopping adults in the US from being parents.

Lie...

YOUR choice.

Lie...

So...it's "equal."

Lie...

 

[Bodi]

:roll:

Ignorance...

 

[Lursa]

There is no right to breath, either.

Say more stupid ****.

Lie...

Read better. There's no right to most things, they are allowed, they are personal liberties (anything not enumerated in the Const yada yada yada)...and we also have to pay consequences for our choices. The choice to sex sometimes leads to pregnancies...and THAT is a consequence both men and women have to deal with. Men choose...and then may have to pay the consequences...you want them to get out of that.

You want the govt to invent a right...and the govt isnt stupid enough to do so.

Your constant pretending there's such a right is the lie.

 

[Bodi]

Read better. There's no right to most things, they are allowed, they are personal liberties (anything not enumerated in the Const yada yada yada)...and we also have to pay consequences for our choices. The choice to sex sometimes leads to pregnancies...and THAT is a consequence both men and women have to deal with. Men choose...and then may have to pay the consequences...you want them to get out of that.

You want the govt to invent a right...and the govt isnt stupid enough to do so.

Your constant pretending there's such a right is the lie.

Right. Liberty. Semantics and lies...

She has the right to not be a parent.

He does not have the right to not be a parent.

Not equal rights.

Un-American values...

You support that.

 

[Lursa]

Right. Liberty. Semantics and lies...

She has the right to not be a parent.

He does not have the right to not be a parent.

Not equal rights.

Un-American values...

You support that.

He has no such right because he is held accountable for his actions. If he produces a child...that is a consequence he is partially...KNOWINGLY...responsible for. He HAD a choice, he made it. And THEN he doesnt like the outcome? You make men sound like weak morons.

There is no right to not be held accountable for your actions. The rights are completely equal: Americans are held accountable for their actions.

And I've still not posted a single lie and you have not yet even managed to point one out. It's ludicrous, almost as ludicrous as your idea for the cop-out.

 

[maquiscat]

straw man: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

Real argument: men don't want to part with any of "their" money to pay for children they conceive. Straw man: Opting-out is an issue about equal rights for men.


And you have not read any statistics on women and the workplace.

Since his was the initial assertion, anything that does address his claims is the strawman. If you want to try to change what his premises are and argue them, then you are making the strawman, no matter how incorrect his premises are. I have been making the arguments about how the law is already equally applied, which stays within his premises. Changing this up to men want to influence decisions or just don't want to pay is changing the OP premises, and thus are the actual strawman arguments.

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[Bodi]

The rights are completely equal:

Lie...