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Male Opt Out

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vegas giants said:
Men deserve a opt out post conception. That is civil rights. That is pro choice.
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Why?

Men and women are already equal in this respect: both now are held accountable for the consequences of having sex.

Why do you want special privileges for men that would end up forcing taxpayers to pay for their choices? And for other kids in the state system to receive less?
 
Lursa said:
Why?

Men and women are already equal in this respect: both now are held accountable for the consequences of having sex.

Why do you want special privileges for men that would end up forcing taxpayers to pay for their choices? And for other kids in the state system to receive less?
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Because I said so. Lol
 
vegas giants said:
Because I said so. Lol
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Obviously, you accept your failure.


Are you done with the discussion? Since neither of you never managed to refute my factual arguments...perhaps you should consider it.

Or resume the discussion, per forum rules.
 
Lursa said:
Obviously, you accept your failure.


Are you done with the discussion? Since neither of you never managed to refute my factual arguments...perhaps you should consider it.

Or resume the discussion, per forum rules.
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Should I consider it? Lol
 
Lursa said:
No. Why is that relevant to this discussion if the man...bio or transgender...carries a fetus? His bodily sovereignty may not be overcome by law, anymore than a pregnant woman's. And the egg donor would have NO opt out if she decided to end the relationship. She'd still be liable for child support. Or joint custody one hopes, in all such situations.

And men are gestating today.
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Lol...
 
Lursa said:
So you challenged my post, twice, and now cant actually back it up.

Thanks! :2wave:
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I already said that biological males can not gestate... but you are free to think that they can... you are also free to think that transgender female to male men is relevant to this discussion. I don't care beyond knowing that your posts are full of ****.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I already said that biological males can not gestate... but you are free to think that they can... you are also free to think that transgender female to male men is relevant to this discussion. I don't care beyond knowing that your posts are full of ****.
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ANd you didnt answer why that makes any difference to the discussion. Why does it? The law considers them male...you want laws changed for males.

It seems that NOTHING that can damage your extremely narrow idea for the opt out is relevant. LOLOL

Come on...why does being a trans or bio male make a difference to your argument? Be specific.

Otherwise you continue to prove that your opt out idea is just trolling. How can it not be trolling, when you've admitted it's a stupid idea? Of course you cant defend it.
 
Lursa said:
ANd you didnt answer why that makes any difference to the discussion. Why does it? The law considers them male...you want laws changed for males.

It seems that NOTHING that can damage your extremely narrow idea for the opt out is relevant. LOLOL

Come on...why does being a trans or bio male make a difference to your argument? Be specific.

Otherwise you continue to prove that your opt out idea is just trolling. How can it not be trolling, when you've admitted it's a stupid idea? Of course you cant defend it.
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I never said it was relevant to anything. You brought up men gestating for some stupid reason. :shrug:
 
Bodhisattva said:
I never said it was relevant to anything. You brought up men gestating for some stupid reason. :shrug:
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No, you kept claiming I was sexist and Y2Y and I have used this example to show that we believe both man and women can and should be treated equally. The law IS equal. There's no sexism. And if a man does carry the unborn, then they get the same legal protections as a woman and the egg donor would be subject to child support if she left the relationship. And would not be allowed to "opt out."

So the law is equal. If a man is in similar circumstances, they have the same rights as a pregnant woman.

Shoots the whining about not being equal for men all to hell :mrgreen:
 
Lursa said:
No, you kept claiming I was sexist and Y2Y and I have used this example to show that we believe both man and women can and should be treated equally. The law IS equal. There's no sexism. And if a man does carry the unborn, then they get the same legal protections as a woman and the egg donor would be subject to child support if she left the relationship. And would not be allowed to "opt out."

So the law is equal. If a man is in similar circumstances, they have the same rights as a pregnant woman.

Shoots the whining about not being equal for men all to hell :mrgreen:
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THAT is the fricking reason you brought up men gestating and giving birth? :lol:

Because biological women that want to be men are classified legally as men so that means that men have equal rights to women in this situation? Holy ****ing ****! :lol: That has to be some of the most stupid and convoluted logic that I have ever read.
 
Bodhisattva said:
THAT is the fricking reason you brought up men gestating and giving birth? :lol:

Because biological women that want to be men are classified legally as men so that means that men have equal rights to women in this situation? Holy ****ing ****! :lol: That has to be some of the most stupid and convoluted logic that I have ever read.
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I'm sorry it's so hard for you to follow. The legal status of the man (who is gestating) doesnt really matter.

What matters is that if the egg donor chooses to leave the relationship and the unborn...she still is on the hook for child support (or joint custody one hopes). She has no 'opt out.' Nor should she. She knowingly contributed to creating that kid and now is obligated to hold up her end of it, to be responsible for it's support and not walk away.

Is that any clearer now? Women should not be allowed to opt out either. Equal :mrgreen:

And the gestating male is "in control" There, does that part make you feel better? ;)
 
Lursa said:
I'm sorry it's so hard for you to follow. The legal status of the man (who is gestating) doesnt really matter.

What matters is that if the egg donor chooses to leave the relationship and the unborn...she still is on the hook for child support (or joint custody one hopes). She has no 'opt out.' Nor should she. She knowingly contributed to creating that kid and now is obligated to hold up her end of it, to be responsible for it's support and not walk away.

Is that any clearer now? Women should not be allowed to opt out either. Equal :mrgreen:

And the gestating male is "in control" There, does that part make you feel better? ;)
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The gestating male is a woman... but please keep talking. Please share more! :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
The gestating male is a woman... but please keep talking. Please share more! :lol:
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No. Legally he is a male. That's what the law recognizes him as: male.

And you are all about 'the law' being equal.

I guess you're on the 'cafeteria plan' for the law? Just use the parts that you like, forget about the ones that dont work for ya?
 
Lursa said:
No. Legally he is a male. That's what the law recognizes him as: male.

And you are all about 'the law' being equal.

I guess you're on the 'cafeteria plan' for the law? Just use the parts that you like, forget about the ones that dont work for ya?
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More... please... lol.
 
It all comes back to the fact that there is no legal equivalent to abortion for men.

An abortion is related to body sovereignty. Opting out is not.

Relating having an abortion to a man opting out is comparing apples to oranges.

Pregnancy carries serious risk to health.

Although early abortion is less mrdically risky that pregnancy...the fact that it may not be morally an option (this would be most women) leaves it not an option for many woman. If a patient stated to her doctor that she had serious moral issues with abortion and was quite distraught over it....it is more than possible that the doctor would refuse the procedure.

Both partners should use contraception. Unless she has an implantable or IUD (which are very expensive) there are issues with patient user error. If a man is not aware of this, he should be.

There should be no "she told me she was using contraception". If both partners are using contraception....that is the best chance of preventing pregnancy (outside of abstinence).


And again, it gets back to the tax payer issue. I do not want to pay for social services for a child unless both parents are tapped first.


Individuals being responsible for their own contraception seems the logical choice.
 
year2late said:
It all comes back to the fact that there is no legal equivalent to abortion for men.

An abortion is related to body sovereignty. Opting out is not.

Relating having an abortion to a man opting out is comparing apples to oranges.

Pregnancy carries serious risk to health.

Although early abortion is less mrdically risky that pregnancy...the fact that it may not be morally an option (this would be most women) leaves it not an option for many woman. If a patient stated to her doctor that she had serious moral issues with abortion and was quite distraught over it....it is more than possible that the doctor would refuse the procedure.

Both partners should use contraception. Unless she has an implantable or IUD (which are very expensive) there are issues with patient user error. If a man is not aware of this, he should be.

There should be no "she told me she was using contraception". If both partners are using contraception....that is the best chance of preventing pregnancy (outside of abstinence).


And again, it gets back to the tax payer issue. I do not want to pay for social services for a child unless both parents are tapped first.


Individuals being responsible for their own contraception seems the logical choice.
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Relax....its a pill. You'll be fine
 
Bodhisattva said:
More... please... lol.
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Still cant actually dispute anything eh? Can only rant and try to convince people by making it about me...and not actually arguing. It shows it's really gotten under your skin. (ppppsssssstt! "Internet" :doh)

Which is not surprising...it's hard to argue in support of an idea even you admit is stupid.

So...you have nothing left to discuss?
 
Lursa said:
Still cant actually dispute anything eh? Can only rant and try to convince people by making it about me...and not actually arguing. It shows it's really gotten under your skin. (ppppsssssstt! "Internet" :doh)

Which is not surprising...it's hard to argue in support of an idea even you admit is stupid.

So...you have nothing left to discuss?
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You can do better than that... right?
 
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