Male Opt Out

[Lursa]

There is no hypocrisy. I want what is best for children. You are more concerned about the taxpayer.

What you want is NO kids unless the man wants them.

And the Vegas Giant hypocrisy is supporting an opt out that makes it easier for men to create more kids he doesnt want and doesnt want to pay for :mrgreen:!

Bingo!

 

[vegas giants]

What you want is NO kids unless the man wants them.

And the Vegas Giant hypocrisy is supporting an opt out that makes it easier for men to create more kids he doesnt want and doesnt want to pay for :mrgreen:!

Bingo!

A woman can have a child anytime she wants if she is pregnant. Why lie so boldly?

 

[soylentgreen]

Of course women don't have to worry about taking responsibility for their actions. They don't have to worry about the financial risks of a pregnancy. They have an out....every time. This has been the point all along. Responsibility is only for the man....the woman is free to be as irresponsible as she wants because she has an out.

No, only you are asking for an opt out. The woman has no opt out. She must make a decision. That is taking responsibility for her actions. You simply twist that to fit your own desire to run away from your own responsibility.

 

[vegas giants]

I don't see how you call yourself pro choice when you wish to see laws made that allow men to destroy a woman's right to choose the way they want with the hammer of withheld financial support for the life they help create.

But it's ok, per the above you have already invalidated the concept of post-conception opt out for men, so I don't really have much more to add.

On the plus side, the fact that you equate personal responsibility with oppression and slavery should highlight some very positive opportunities for self growth. It's always a good effort to improve one's self. And if and when you come around to proposing real solutions to the problem of men not having adequate protection against unwanted parenthood, that don't erode the rights of women, I'll be here to support you fully.

Thanks for the chat, Vegas. I believe, unless you have any different arguments to make for a post conception male opt out, we're finally done here.

Hoping you'll harbor no hard feelings for the vigorous discussion. I know I won't. You and I agree on most things outside this discussion, I look forward to talking about those things, now that this thing has been dealt with.

Cheers!

You are just wrong. A woman always has the right to choose and a male opt out would not change that in the slightest. Take care

 

[Lursa]

A woman can have a child anytime she wants if she is pregnant. Why lie so boldly?

I said 'what you want.' Please read better.

I didnt say you could have that.

But you have admitted clearly that you want to be able to 'incentivize' women not to have kids. And since it's based on a man's (fantasy) choice to opt out, it would be 'what they want.' To manipulate a woman's decision to not have the kid.

 

[vegas giants]

No, only you are asking for an opt out. The woman has no opt out. She must make a decision. That is taking responsibility for her actions. You simply twist that to fit your own desire to run away from your own responsibility.

The man would have to make a decision too you know. He could choose to opt in or out just like the woman. That is taking responsibility. That is pro choice

 

[vegas giants]

I said 'what you want.' Please read better.

I didnt say you could have that.

But you have admitted clearly that you want to be able to 'incentivize' women not to have kids. And since it's based on a man's (fantasy) choice to opt out, it would be 'what they want.' To manipulate a woman's decision.

What the man wants has no control over what the woman wants. She can have any child she wants and what the man wants plays no part in that. I want to encourage women to make the responsible choice. You do not.

 

[Lursa]

The man would have to make a decision too you know. He could choose to opt in or out just like the woman. That is taking responsibility. That is pro choice

What is stopping a man from doing this when he's deciding to have sex with her? He can do exactly that AND be in control of the outcome. Win-win!

Dont add the 'equality' crapola, just please answer the question. Cant he protect himself completely? Cant he opt out?

 

[OlNate]

You are just wrong. A woman always has the right to choose and a male opt out would not change that in the slightest. Take care

Sorry, that just doesn't hold water after what you've already admitted and how you've already represented. Find a different way, and I've got your back. But this, as I've said often, though probably more angrily, will never fly.

You take care too.

 

[soylentgreen]

The man would have to make a decision too you know. He could choose to opt in or out just like the woman. That is taking responsibility. That is pro choice

No, all you are asking for is not to opt out but to be able to run away from your own actions. That is being irresponsible. You are asking to have to not face the consequences of your actions. You wish society to pay for your mistake. You ask for a civil right by displaying a complete lack of civil responsibility.

 

[Lursa]

What the man wants has no control over what the woman wants. She can have any child she wants and what the man wants plays no part in that. I want to encourage women to make the responsible choice. You do not.

I've already pointed out that it wont work. Women had kids out of wedlock, in the system, long before we could really solidly identify the fathers. If they are that irresponsible, they dont care where the $ comes from...they know that the state has the child's best interests in mind. And not all women believe in abortion, it's not an option for them.

And if they truly want to take advantage of the man, they'd just hide the pregnancy.

So you are right, you have no control over her decision and the opt out wont create that for you.

You are not telling the truth anyway. You dont want to encourage women, you dont want what's best for kids. You want to escape paying. This is what you want:

 

[Lursa]

No, all you are asking for is not to opt out but to be able to run away from your own actions. That is being irresponsible. You are asking to have to not face the consequences of your actions. You wish society to pay for your mistake. You ask for a civil right by displaying a complete lack of civil responsibility.

And altho there is complete denial, it would indeed encourage men to not use condoms, not be careful, not worrying about lying to women about getting her pregnant, to not worry about using good judgement in general.

If there's no consequences, there's no reason to even worry for men...then it's 'just the woman's problem.' Basically, it's a return to what men have felt entitled to all throughout history....sex without consequences.

 

[vegas giants]

What is stopping a man from doing this when he's deciding to have sex with her? He can do exactly that AND be in control of the outcome. Win-win!

Dont add the 'equality' crapola, just please answer the question. Cant he protect himself completely? Cant he opt out?

That would be unequal and a violation of his civil rights

 

[vegas giants]

And altho there is complete denial, it would indeed encourage men to not use condoms, not be careful, not worrying about lying to women about getting her pregnant, to not worry about using good judgement in general.

If there's no consequences, there's no reason to even worry for men...then it's 'just the woman's problem.' Basically, it's a return to what men have felt entitled to all throughout history....sex without consequences.

There are always consequences for men from sex. Always

 

[vegas giants]

I've already pointed out that it wont work. Women had kids out of wedlock, in the system, long before we could really solidly identify the fathers. If they are that irresponsible, they dont care where the $ comes from...they know that the state has the child's best interests in mind. And not all women believe in abortion, it's not an option for them.

And if they truly want to take advantage of the man, they'd just hide the pregnancy.

So you are right, you have no control over her decision and the opt out wont create that for you.

You are not telling the truth anyway. You dont want to encourage women, you dont want what's best for kids. You want to escape paying. This is what you want:

View attachment 67233072

Now you are just simply lying

 

[OlNate]

There are always consequences for men from sex. Always

I've never had any consequences from having sex. Ever. :shrug:

 

[vegas giants]

I've never had any consequences from having sex. Ever. :shrug:

That's too bad. I had two incredibly wonderful consequences. Children.

 

[soylentgreen]

And altho there is complete denial, it would indeed encourage men to not use condoms, not be careful, not worrying about lying to women about getting her pregnant, to not worry about using good judgement in general.

If there's no consequences, there's no reason to even worry for men...then it's 'just the woman's problem.' Basically, it's a return to what men have felt entitled to all throughout history....sex without consequences.

And of course it does not stop there. In order to achieve his state of irresponsibility he is also demanding that child bearing be restricted only to the wealthy, those who can afford to raise a child without being a burden to society or the man who got her pregnant.

It always makes me laugh that americans make such big claims about their country being a land of freedom and then come up with dumb ideas like this.

 

[soylentgreen]

That's too bad. I had two incredibly wonderful consequences. Children.

So you have only had sex a few times in your life???
Or is that you only have had sex with a woman a few times in your life?

 

[vegas giants]

And of course it does not stop there. In order to achieve his state of irresponsibility he is also demanding that child bearing be restricted only to the wealthy, those who can afford to raise a child without being a burden to society or the man who got her pregnant.

It always makes me laugh that americans make such big claims about their country being a land of freedom and then come up with dumb ideas like this.

These are absolute and bold lies

 

[vegas giants]

So you have only had sex a few times in your life???
Or is that you only have had sex with a woman a few times in your life?

No I have had lots of sex. I only listed two consequences though. Thanks for asking. Lol

 

[soylentgreen]

These are absolute and bold lies

No they are not and i resent you saying they are. You have said that only those who can afford a child should have one. You are looking for any worthless excuse to opt out of having to be responsible for your own actions.

 

[OlNate]

That's too bad. I had two incredibly wonderful consequences. Children.

I would never call my son a consequence. Being a father has been the greatest honor and privilege of my life. I am forever grateful to my wife for what it took to bring him into the world, and all the work that has taken place on her part ever since.

But I do believe you that you love your kids. Which is why I cannot for the life of me understand why you support this and are stubbornly unwilling to look for other alternatives. Whatever it is, it must be a hell of a personal conflict at it's root.

 

[soylentgreen]

No I have had lots of sex. I only listed two consequences though. Thanks for asking. Lol

So easy to point out the crap in messages. You said:

There are always consequences for men from sex. Always

Yet the only consequence you can think of happened twice.

Care to list the rest or shall we just take it that you have been caught talking crap once again.

 

[vegas giants]

No they are not and i resent you saying they are. You have said that only those who can afford a child should have one. You are looking for any worthless excuse to opt out of having to be responsible for your own actions.

Where did I ever say wealthy? Point out that exact post.

And I personally am past my child having years so you are wrong again. Lol