Make the case on why new machine guns should be [W:456, 841, 899]

[haymarket]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

Because that's not the issue being discussed. And I didn't attack you. I merely noted the truth. Also, I don't advocate private ownership of new machine guns. That you choose not to appreciate the difference is your problem, and not mine.

No you attacked me with a wise guy remark that was recognized as such by your allies who have identified me as the enemy. So do not try to play coy or innocent.

The issue being discussed is a change in the law permitting machine gun ownership in the USA. And that is what I am discussing. Not the FDA or anything else.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

It is a "gut buster" - to use your quaint terminology - that you are advocating a change in the law but you are impotent to make a case as to why that law should be changed!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :doh:roll:

Amazing!!!!! :shock::roll:

Off the charts unbelievably amazing that on a debate site your side cannot provide one solid argument why the American people should support such a change.



That is a lie and you know it since you yourself reproduced my reasons in your own post and then you failed to speak to any of the points I raised and still are unable to speak to them. You obviously wanted me to argue this a different way so your prepackaged stock answer could be put into play - which you were not able to do.

No Haymarket-this thread is not about a CHANGE IN THE LAW

its not about people worshiping what some dishonest scumbag assholes like Hughes did

the ISSUE IS MAKE A CASE FOR BANNING MACHINE GUNS


and you have been asked to do that

and instead we have seen dozens of posts

1) about cops

2) about democracy or at least your version of it

3) about bogus interpretations of the constitution

but yet we haven't seen a single cogent attempt to MAKE A CASE WHY MACHINE GUNS SHOULD BE BANNED

 

[haymarket]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

No Haymarket-this thread is not about a CHANGE IN THE LAW

So you do NOT want a change in the law on machine guns?

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

No Haymarket-this thread is not about a CHANGE IN THE LAW

its not about people worshiping what some dishonest scumbag assholes like Hughes did

the ISSUE IS MAKE A CASE FOR BANNING MACHINE GUNS


and you have been asked to do that

and instead we have seen dozens of posts

1) about cops

2) about democracy or at least your version of it

3) about bogus interpretations of the constitution

but yet we haven't seen a single cogent attempt to MAKE A CASE WHY MACHINE GUNS SHOULD BE BANNED

What reason is there for anyone to own a machine gun?

If it is for collectors who want to put a historic machine gun on display, then I have no problem with that as long as the machine gun is used only for display purposes.

 

[humbolt]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

No you attacked me with a wise guy remark that was recognized as such by your allies who have identified me as the enemy. So do not try to play coy or innocent.

No I didn't. I'm never coy and certainly not innocent. I simply noted a fact that you have already admitted whether you know it or not, and made an apt comparison.

The issue being discussed is a change in the law permitting machine gun ownership in the USA. And that is what I am discussing. Not the FDA or anything else.

Then you should have no problem answering the questions already posed to you.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

What reason is there for anyone to own a machine gun?

If it is for collectors who want to put a historic machine gun on display, then I have no problem with that as long as the machine gun is used only for display purposes.

Reason and need are not expressed in the constitution.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

So you do NOT want a change in the law on machine guns?

The issue in this THREAD IS TO MAKE A CASE WHY MACHINE GUNS SHOUL BE BANNED

I guess you cannot so that is why you constantly divert and evade the issue

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

What reason is there for anyone to own a machine gun?

If it is for collectors who want to put a historic machine gun on display, then I have no problem with that as long as the machine gun is used only for display purposes.

That is not the issue

you are operating on the disgusting premise that citizens have to justify doing something rather than the proper inquiry-Can the government with clear and convincing (minimum) evidence prove that something should be banned

 

[haymarket]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

No I didn't. I'm never coy and certainly not innocent. I simply noted a fact that you have already admitted whether you know it or not, and made an apt comparison.

Then produce it instead of vaguely referring to its supposed existence.

Then you should have no problem answering the questions already posed to you.

Which I have done. If you believe I have not, present your information.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

The issue in this THREAD IS TO MAKE A CASE WHY MACHINE GUNS SHOUL BE BANNED

I guess you cannot so that is why you constantly divert and evade the issue

So this is a fantasy question about theory in the imaginary land of Debate and is not at all pertaining to what you want in the USA?

Turtle - So you do NOT want a change in the law on machine guns?

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

Reason and need are not expressed in the constitution.

The founding fathers never imagined the development of firearms that allowed one man with a machine gun to have the same killing power as 1000 men armed with rifles.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

That is not the issue

you are operating on the disgusting premise that citizens have to justify doing something rather than the proper inquiry-Can the government with clear and convincing (minimum) evidence prove that something should be banned

Machine guns are instruments of war that give one man equipped with one the ability to have the firepower of 100 men armed with rifles.

Guns that have the capability to decimate entire armies are far too dangerous for the average citizen to own.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

So this is a fantasy question about theory in the imaginary land of Debate and is not at all pertaining to what you want in the USA?

Turtle - So you do NOT want a change in the law on machine guns?

The Issue on this thread is to make a case for Machine guns to be banned

not to divert with slurpage of Democrat politicians and their dishonest machinations

not to divert with grandiose paens of democracy and what voters may or may not want

Not to give homage to the current laws

 

[humbolt]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

Then produce it instead of vaguely referring to its supposed existence.

So my comment about a selective memory was on the mark.

Which I have done. If you believe I have not, present your information.

See post #707 and a whole bunch of similar posts offered by other posters. Or, as a refreshing alternative, you could answer the OP.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

Machine guns are instruments of war that give one man equipped with one the ability to have the firepower of 100 men armed with rifles.

Guns that have the capability to decimate entire armies are far too dangerous for the average citizen to own.

that is so stupid I can only laugh

I don't know what is worse-the absolute disregard for reality or the fact you probably actually believe that crap

we are talking 20-30 round rifles with a giggle switch

you are talking about crew served HMGs that require several men to man them

remind me how many belt fed HMGs have been used in crime

 

[blackjack50]

Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned [W:456]

The founding fathers never imagined the development of firearms that allowed one man with a machine gun to have the same killing power as 1000 men armed with rifles.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

The founding fathers never imagined the development of firearms that allowed one man with a machine gun to have the same killing power as 1000 men armed with rifles.

YOu are not being accurate. it is easy for someone who has been exposed to weapons that can fire 8-9 rounds a minute to conceive of weapons that could fire 800 rounds a minute

just as my grandfather-a WWI veteran and the father of a WWII aviator knew that one day we'd have planes going faster than the speed of sound and he knew this long before the German jets were a reality

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

AHH!!!! You copied me!!!! Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery as the adage goes.

You want to change the law - thus you have to make a case to the American people. But I guess you cannot come up with one.

I have no idea of what you are babbling about. I copied you!!!!!!! You have not said a sensible word I would want to copy.

Lets try again.

Where is the benefit in any existing gun control law?

Why does an arm, any arm need to have a benefit?

Really simple questions that do not require evasion of false claims of grandeur.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

The founding fathers never imagined the development of firearms that allowed one man with a machine gun to have the same killing power as 1000 men armed with rifles.

You are wrong.

8-shot matchlock revolver (Germany ca. 1580)
Matchlock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Puckle Gun 1718
Puckle gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ferguson rifle
Ferguson rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kalthoff repeater
Firearms History, Technology & Development: The Kalthoff Repeater

Girandoni Air Rifle
This Rifle Fired 22 shots in Under 30 seconds in 1790, and Our Founding Fathers Knew About It

12-Shot Repeating Flintlock Rifle.
12-Shot Repeating Flintlock Rifle - Neatorama



The Porter Revolving Turret Rifle
Vertically Revolving Rifle - Neatorama



Flintlock revolver

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

The founding fathers never imagined the development of firearms that allowed one man with a machine gun to have the same killing power as 1000 men armed with rifles.

► The Ribauldequin was a late medieval volley gun with many small-caliber iron barrels set up parallel on a platform, in use during the 14th and 15th centuries.
Ribauldequin - Google Search

► An unknown German gunsmith before 1600 crafted this oval-bore .67-caliber rifle that was designed to fire 16 stacked charges of powder and ball in a rapid "Roman candle" fashion. One mid-barrel wheel lock mechanism ignited a fuse to discharge the upper 10 charges, and another rearward wheel lock then fired the remaining six lower charges.
America's 1st Freedom

► The Cookson Repeater (a.k.a. Lorenzoni System), circa 1680: 12 shot, lever-action breech-loading, repeating flintlock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs4vjq6sW40

► Lorenzoni Flintlock Repeating Pistol, 7-shot and 9-shot versions, circa 1680:
(7-shot) Lorenzoni Flintlock Repeating Pistol « Forgotten Weapons
(9-shot) A RARE NINE-SHOT FLINTLOCK REPEATING MAGAZINE PISTOL ON THE LORENZONI PRINCIPLE, BY H.W. MORTIMER & CO., LONDON, GUN MAKERS TO HIS MAJESTY | CIRCA 1799-1806 | Arms, Armour & Sporting Guns Auction | Christie's

► The Nock Volley Gun, circa 1780: seven 20-inch .60-caliber barrels, one in the centerline with the other six clustered and brazed around it like a handful of flowers.
The Nock Volley Gun: Seven shot 'Sea-sweeper' - Guns.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZS8A5PbsqU

The Ottoman Empire had 9-and-11 barrel cannon as early as the 1300's:
Volley Gun (Object) - Giant Bomb

And we shouldn't leave out the 44-barreled mortar designed by A K Nartov and found in the St. Petersburg Arsenal in 1754:
Wargaming Miscellany: I have been to ... the Artillery Museum, St Petersburg: Artillery up to 1860

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

that is so stupid I can only laugh

I don't know what is worse-the absolute disregard for reality or the fact you probably actually believe that crap

we are talking 20-30 round rifles with a giggle switch

you are talking about crew served HMGs that require several men to man them

remind me how many belt fed HMGs have been used in crime

Sorry for not getting my terminology straight from guns and ammo quarterly

Are we including in our discussion sub-machine guns/ machine pistols such as the iconic Thompson and theMac-11?

Furthermore, does your understanding of the term "machine gun" include rifles like the AR-15 and the Ak-47, which are capable of both semi-automatic and fully automatic fire?

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

Machine guns are instruments of war that give one man equipped with one the ability to have the firepower of 100 men armed with rifles.

Guns that have the capability to decimate entire armies are far too dangerous for the average citizen to own.

You have provided no proof your fear laden claims are of any significance.

And the founding fathers had no idea of the power.... yadda yadda yadda

The fear practically oozes from your post.

Imagine what repeating rifles were in the day, What the Gatling was, cannon, rifled barrels and cartridge rifles.... OMG help us

As a point of interest look at every country that used the Gatling to see what it was in its day. The most frighteningly powerful weapon that literally determined the out come.

Now what are the stated purposes of the 2A that the founding fathers envisaged?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

Sorry for not getting my terminology straight from guns and ammo quarterly

Are we including in our discussion sub-machine guns/ machine pistols such as the iconic Thompson and theMac-11?

Furthermore, does your understanding of the term "machine gun" include rifles like the AR-15 and the Ak-47, which are capable of both semi-automatic and fully automatic fire?

I am using the term machine gun as the federal government does-meaning if it can fire more than one round per trigger pull it is considered a machine gun. Now I won't confuse you with the difference between a machine gun and an AUTOMATIC weapon but we are talking about the stuff citizens should clearly be able to own-the same stuff police agencies have

M16 rifles
MP5 SMGs
Tommy Guns
Mac-10s
Swedish Ks
Port Said Copies of the Swedish K
M4s
UZI
etc

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

I am using the term machine gun as the federal government does-meaning if it can fire more than one round per trigger pull it is considered a machine gun. Now I won't confuse you with the difference between a machine gun and an AUTOMATIC weapon but we are talking about the stuff citizens should clearly be able to own-the same stuff police agencies have

M16 rifles
MP5 SMGs
Tommy Guns
Mac-10s
Swedish Ks
Port Said Copies of the Swedish K
M4s
UZI
etc

I always thought a bolt action rife would be sufficien.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Make the case on why new machine guns should be banned

So you do NOT want a change in the law on machine guns?

Now I have see everything. Haymarkets next favourite the LOADED QUESTION and this is the best example I have seen.