Make Dnipropetrovsk Russian again. LoL

[dandolo2k]

The Geneva Conventions and the United Nations consider elections/referendums on lands under foreign military occupation to be illegal and illegitimate.

The above encompasses Crimea, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts. Any Russian elections/referendums held in the occupied portions of these Ukrainian oblasts are illegal and non-applicable.

All of this regions(oblasts) ARE NOT OCCUPIED. After Donbass revolution in 2014 it decided to break away from Ukrainian fascist Empire , and it had full right to do it .

 

[Rogue Valley]

All of this regions(oblasts) ARE NOT OCCUPIED.

The entire world regards all regions in Ukraine where Russian soldiers are located to be occupied.

 

[soap box]

All of this regions(oblasts) ARE NOT OCCUPIED. After Donbass revolution in 2014 it decided to break away from Ukrainian fascist Empire , and it had full right to do it .

If Eastern Oblasts have the right to choose to break away from Ukraine, wouldn't Ukraine have the right to refuse to be annexed to Russia?

 

[Tigerace117]

Recognized by no one in the West. Or pretty much any other nation except for a couple of other dictatorships.

So what? According to the West apartheid and Jim Crow were A-OK for decades, after all.

 

[Tigerace117]

Whatever war crimes Ukraine committed in the last 3 years is nothing compared to what Russian troops have done.

Rape
Looting
Torture of military & civilian POWs
Deaths of POWs
Demographic replacement in occupied areas
Kidnapping Children
Forcing "re-education" in occupied areas & back in Russia with kidnapped civilians (mostly the kidnapped kids)
Targeting buildings housing civilians in hiding (theater in Mariupol)
Targeting of hospitals
Double-tap strikes (which results in emergency responder deaths/injuries)
Using drones to "hunt" civilians in Kherson
Abuse of own soldiers
Lying to foreigners & forcing them to fight
General persecution

When it comes to war crimes being committed, Russia has gone above & beyond the record for number of war crimes violations. Hitler & the Nazis are pansies when stacked up against Russia's record of the last 3 years. Russia went from crude to despicable to outright barbarity in record time.

I get that America has totally whitewashed the Nazis because it has deep sympathy for Hitler and his “crusade against Bolshevism”, but that is laughably untrue.

Bucha was an every day occurrence in the East under the Third Reich.

 

[dandolo2k]

If Eastern Oblasts have the right to choose to break away from Ukraine, wouldn't Ukraine have the right to refuse to be annexed to Russia?

Russia is not "annexing" Ukraine. Take a look at Abkhasia. Georgia has abandoned it's attempts to return Abkhasia by force, and Abkhasia remained independent. And even an autonomous part of Georgia, as far as I understand it's legal status. Russia didn't "annex" it , and there were no attempts to hold any referendum on the issue of joining Russia.
But Ukrainian nationalists thugs want to control Donbass and Crimea entirely and kill and torture Donbass residents whom they deem not loyal. This is what they want . And this is the main reason for the civil conflict inside Ukraine.

 

[Rogue Valley]

This is what they want . And this is the main reason for the civil conflict inside Ukraine.

The only reason for hostilities in Ukraine is Putin's goal of reconstituting the Russian Empire.

 

[soap box]

Russia is not "annexing" Ukraine. Take a look at Abkhasia. Georgia has abandoned it's attempts to return Abkhasia by force, and Abkhasia remained independent. And even an autonomous part of Georgia, as far as I understand it's legal status. Russia didn't "annex" it , and there were no attempts to hold any referendum on the issue of joining Russia.

You never answered that. There was a referendum in March of 1991. It was totally rejected. Why is is impossible for Putin to call for an open and transparent Referendum now? Why not?

But Ukrainian nationalists thugs want to control Donbass and Crimea entirely and kill and torture Donbass residents whom they deem not loyal. This is what they want . And this is the main reason for the civil conflict inside Ukraine.

Putin could prove what you claim with a transparent Referendum. Why won't he submit the matter to have the people decide? Why not?

 

[soap box]

Russia is not "annexing" Ukraine. Take a look at Abkhasia. Georgia has abandoned it's attempts to return Abkhasia by force, and Abkhasia remained independent. And even an autonomous part of Georgia, as far as I understand it's legal status. Russia didn't "annex" it , and there were no attempts to hold any referendum on the issue of joining Russia.
But Ukrainian nationalists thugs want to control Donbass and Crimea entirely and kill and torture Donbass residents whom they deem not loyal. This is what they want . And this is the main reason for the civil conflict inside Ukraine.

Putin wants all of Ukraine. He's bombing the whole country, not just the East.

 

[Fledermaus]

All of this regions(oblasts) ARE NOT OCCUPIED. After Donbass revolution in 2014 it decided to break away from Ukrainian fascist Empire , and it had full right to do it .

Wrong on so many levels.

 

[Juin]

If Eastern Oblasts have the right to choose to break away from Ukraine, wouldn't Ukraine have the right to refuse to be annexed to Russia?

Ukraine has the right to self determination. And minorities within Ukraine also have a right to self determination. What appears to be the problem is the Ukrainian nation accepts its right to secede from Russian domination, but rejects the rights of Russian minorities under its domination to secede from Ukraine

 

[soap box]

Ukraine has the right to self determination. And minorities within Ukraine also have a right to self determination. What appears to be the problem is the Ukrainian nation accepts its right to secede from Russian domination, but rejects the rights of Russian minorities under its domination to secede from Ukraine

The establishment of the nation of Ukraine was decided by a Referendum in December of 1991. If Putin or Zelensky calls for a new referendum that would settle the question. Who do you think would support a free and fair Referendum with international monitors such as the Helsinki Commission? Who?

 

[Juin]

The establishment of the nation of Ukraine was decided by a Referendum in December of 1991.

The coup of 2014 set off secessionist movements among the Russians.

If Putin or Zelensky calls for a new referendum that would settle the question. Who do you think would support a free and fair Referendum with international monitors such as the Helsinki Commission? Who?

Russia already held referendums in Crimea, Luhansk, Zapporhizia, Kherson and Donetsk.

We cannot pick and chose referendum we want. The coup of 2014 was an overturning of the democratically elected President of Ukraine. The option was there to remove him at the next elections. That didnt appear to suit the west. It had to be a coup. If that is how the west treats elections then I am not sure why Russians should consider them fair

 

[Fledermaus]

The coup of 2014 set off secessionist movements among the Russians.

Russia already held referendums in Crimea, Luhansk, Zapporhizia, Kherson and Donetsk.

We cannot pick and chose referendum we want. The coup of 2014 was an overturning of the democratically elected President of Ukraine. The option was there to remove him at the next elections. That didnt appear to suit the west. It had to be a coup. If that is how the west treats elections then I am not sure why Russians should consider them fair

The proper name for Russians in Ukraine is Ukrainians.

Russia referendums in Crimea, Luhansk, Zapporhizia, Kherson and Donetsk are irrelevant since they are occupied territory.

 

[dandolo2k]

The proper name for Russians in Ukraine is Ukrainians.

Russia referendums in Crimea, Luhansk, Zapporhizia, Kherson and Donetsk are irrelevant since they are occupied territory.

Nope. They are not occupied territories. All these territories have their local governments.

 

[Fledermaus]

Nope. They are not occupied territories. All these territories have their local governments.

Are Russians in Crimea, Luhansk, Zapporhizia, Kherson and Donetsk?

If yes, then they are occupied.

 

[Rogue Valley]

RED = Ukraine oblasts either partially or wholly occuipied by Russian military forces.