• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Macron says France will recognize a Palestinian state at UN General Assembly this fall

Allan

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
54,688
Reaction score
83,141
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I hope Canada and other countries follow Macron's lead on this. The genocide has to be stopped and as an enthusiastic participant America is not going to do it.


 
Britain had actually controlled the land after the Ottoman Empire fell due to conquest - for better or worse the way national land ownership has been decided - so it actually had the power to create Israel in 1948 (after the would-be Palestinian/Arab state rejected the 1947 UN compromise because it meant there would be a Jewish state next door).

France hasn't single-handedly or with allies overthrown a government controlling the area in which this state it wishes to declare is supposed to exist. Unless France is threatening to invade Israel I'm not sure what it would accomplish beyond being a gesture. There's still a war on and there are still no legitimate potential governing bodies.

There's Hamas, which despite being largely crippled, is and always will be on it's founding mission to destroy Israel, kill all the Jews, establish a global Islamic Caliphate. Putting them in charge only guarantees more conflict. And then there's the PLO, generally seen by Palestinians as corrupt and useless.



So while a two-state solution is the only possible solution, this does sound like it will be a meaningless gesture.
 
An Israeli death squad assassinated Folke Bernadotte, the UN mediator, in September of 1948, so assuming Israel would have simply gone along with the whatever plan the British came up with is not supported by the evidence.

France has been a long time supplier of arms to Israel— their first major supplier, in fact— so the shift is a significant move on Macron’s part.

Israel has murdered more innocent civilians in a year than Hamas has in its entire existence.
 

Yep.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas urged Hamas to release the hostages it is holding and hand over its weapons to the PA, stressing that the terror group “will not rule the Gaza Strip” after the war there ends.

 
Netanyahu's continuing torture of trapped Palestinian civilians has not eliminated Hamas. It's likely produced more anti-Israel sentiment among more people.

Yet his Government continues to pursue this losing - as in not protecting Israelis from future attacks - campaign.

As for the two-state solution: Yep, it was the only possible solution, but we both know that the Israeli Government's policy of allowing "settlers" to take Palestinians' lands and turn them into non-Palestinian enclaves in the West Bank has made that impossible.

Both Palestinians in Gaza and Israelis and Palestinians in Israel have leaders who do NOT have the best interests of their countrymen at heart.
 
It is a nice gesture, but a bit too little and too late now that Gaza is largely a big pile of rubble. I am on the fence on nations joining arguably others in recognizing a Palestinian State being enough on its own to effect change in Israel's campaign to date.

Being the skeptic that I am I ask that you look at it this way, the umpteenth resolution out of the UN did not seem to change all that much to date in this conflict or just about any other. What makes us think this will change things?
 
Yep, what has Macron done to impact the situation in Gaza?
Not enough, yet.

I'd like to see a European led multinational force go in under the authority of the UN. Get aid flowing and take over negotiations to get the hostages freed. Followed up by rebuilding and UN monitored elections.
 
Where exactly?
The Brits had previously controlled all this area. They decided to change that in 1947 and establish a Jewish state and an Arab state. Here's a better explantaion. https://lsa.umich.edu/content/dam/c...stine/Section1_UnitedNationsPartitionPlan.pdf
 
Once again, the Israelis assassinated the UN mediator whose job it was to hammer out a workable peace deal in the first place. They’d also been shooting at the British on and off for the past four years, so the assumption they’d simply agree to London’s plans is assuming an awful lot.
 

...“Today the most urgent thing is that the war in Gaza cease and the civilian population be helped,” Mr. Macron said.

Most nations of the world recognize Palestine as a nation, but the United States and most of its close allies do not. With Mr. Macron’s decision, France would become the first of the Group of 7 major industrialized nations — also including the United States, Britain, Canada, Germany, Japan and Italy — to do so.

The move appeared likely to irk the Trump administration as it pursues its own attempts to end the war in Gaza.


```````````````````````````

Hmmm....could this complicate trump's plans to get rid of 2.1 million Palestinians in the Strip and to build a big, beautiful resort?
 

...France, home to Europe's largest Jewish and Muslim communities, will become the first major Western country to recognise a Palestinian state, potentially giving greater momentum to a movement so far dominated by smaller nations that are generally more critical of Israel.

The decision is likely to spark anger in Israel and Washington.

In a diplomatic cable in June, the United States said it opposed any steps that would unilaterally recognise a Palestinian state.
 
Constant conflict in 1963, 67, and 73 continued to end with Israel in control of the spaces. I don't see where the Palestinians have much claim. The started the war that led to Israel's taking land. The Palestinians tried several times to take it back and failed. Along the way the various Palestinian groups attacked Israel in the form of constant rocket attacks into Israel. I think Macron needs to do a history review before he makes a mistake that is going to make things worse. The old saying is, "to the victor goes the spoils". Then you have the current conflict in which Hamas, a terror group, attacked civilians on Oct 7 and killed, tortured, raped, Israeli men, women, children and then took hundreds of hostages. Many of the hostages have died and many remain as hostages. The current conflict was clearly started by Hamas and supported by Palestinians in the region.
Israel isn't likely to give in. The last point is Palestinains don't want Israel in the area. They have vowed for years to eliminate the Jews and the state of Israel.
 
MOst of Europe doesn't recognize the Palestinian state.
The biggest problem is to get the Palestinians to stop all forms of warfare upon Israel. They have refused to recognize Israel and have sworn to eliminate them.
 

...The French president offered support for Israel after the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks and frequently speaks out against antisemitism, but he has grown increasingly frustrated about Israel’s war in Gaza.

″Given its historic commitment to a just and sustainable peace in the Middle East, I have decided that France will recognize the state of Palestine,’' Macron posted. ″Peace is possible.’'

Thursday’s announcement came soon after the U.S. cut short Gaza ceasefire talks in Qatar, saying Hamas wasn’t showing good faith....

Momentum has been building against Israel in recent days. Earlier this week, France and more than two dozen mostly European countries condemned Israel’s restrictions on aid shipments into the territory and the killings of hundreds of Palestinians trying to reach food.

Macron will join the leaders of Britain and Germany for emergency talks Friday on Gaza, how to get food to the hungry and how to stop fighting.

“We are clear that statehood is the inalienable right of the Palestinian people. A ceasefire will put us on a path to the recognition of a Palestinian state and a two-state solution which guarantees peace and security for Palestinians and Israelis,’' British Prime Minister Keir Starmer said in announcing the call. “The suffering and starvation unfolding in Gaza is unspeakable and indefensible.’'

Israel annexed east Jerusalem shortly after the 1967 war and considers it part of its capital. In the West Bank, it has built scores of settlements, some resembling sprawling suburbs, that are now home to over 500,000 Jewish settlers with Israeli citizenship. The territory’s 3 million Palestinians live under Israeli military rule, with the Palestinian Authority exercising limited autonomy in population centers.

The last serious peace talks broke down in 2009, when Netanyahu returned to power. Most of the international community considers the establishment of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel to be the only realistic solution to the century-old conflict.
 
Not enough, yet.

I'd like to see a European led multinational force go in under the authority of the UN. Get aid flowing and take over negotiations to get the hostages freed. Followed up by rebuilding and UN monitored elections.

Negotiations with who?
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…