Lowering Taxes does NOT create jobs?

[TurtleDude]

Sure I did.. gasoline taxes aren't the only funds that pay for roads.

He also pays for the federal government that protects interstate trade.. that maintains interstate road safety so on and so forth...

You are simply wrong.. and don't have a leg to stand on.

you conjure up crap that you cannot measure nor prove and assume he uses more.

You are simply wrong and your posts are dishonest

and you ran away from my point that destroys your argument

the top 5% pay more than half the FIT. are you claiming they use even more of a share of the benefits paid for by the FIT than the other 95%

for your pathetic socialist argument to have merit, you have to claim that point as valid

 

[jaeger19]

you conjure up crap that you cannot measure nor prove and assume he uses more.

You are simply wrong and your posts are dishonest

and you ran away from my point that destroys your argument

the top 5% pay more than half the FIT. are you claiming they use even more of a share of the benefits paid for by the FIT than the other 95%

for your pathetic socialist argument to have merit, you have to claim that point as valid

no I did not conjure up crap.. thats your department.

I didn't run away from your point.,.Heck I pointed out why its incorrect. Sure they pay gasoline taxes...one they don't completely pay for roads.. and TWO.. those taxes are passed along to the consumer in shipping costs.. because thats one type of tax that CAN be passed on ... so cry me a river.

And yes.. the top 5% use even more of a share of benefits paid for by the FIT than the other 95%. YES THEY DO.

YOU AND YOUR FAMILY DID. How many people get patent protection? and get rich from it?


And where does the vast majority of domestic federal spending end up anyway Turtledude? It ends up in a rich persons bank account. thats where. IF IT WAS NOT SO THEN EVERYONE IN AMERICA WOULD BE wealthy.

but such is not the case.

 

[TurtleDude]

no I did not conjure up crap.. thats your department.

I didn't run away from your point.,.Heck I pointed out why its incorrect. Sure they pay gasoline taxes...one they don't completely pay for roads.. and TWO.. those taxes are passed along to the consumer in shipping costs.. because thats one type of tax that CAN be passed on ... so cry me a river.

And yes.. the top 5% use even more of a share of benefits paid for by the FIT than the other 95%. YES THEY DO.

YOU AND YOUR FAMILY DID. How many people get patent protection? and get rich from it?


And where does the vast majority of domestic federal spending end up anyway Turtledude? It ends up in a rich persons bank account. thats where. IF IT WAS NOT SO THEN EVERYONE IN AMERICA WOULD BE wealthy.

but such is not the case.

So you claim that top 5% use more than half of the benefits the government funds with the FIT? that is so stupid that it will relegate anything you post to the junk heap of silliness.

you cannot even measure the crap you attribute to the rich using more of

so using your logic

the rich use more than half the federal PRISON system. DO you have any clue how expensive it is to keep someone for say 32 years at USP Florence (AKA Supermax). how many of those people were top 5%

defense is one of our largest expenditures. it costs no more to defend the 10 acre estate of one rich man versus a poor neighborhood that has 400 people living in apartments on ten acres.

so stop the idiocy

 

[jaeger19]

So you claim that top 5% use more than half of the benefits the government funds with the FIT? that is so stupid that it will relegate anything you post to the junk heap of silliness.

you cannot even measure the crap you attribute to the rich using more of

so using your logic

the rich use more than half the federal PRISON system. DO you have any clue how expensive it is to keep someone for say 32 years at USP Florence (AKA Supermax). how many of those people were top 5%

defense is one of our largest expenditures. it costs no more to defend the 10 acre estate of one rich man versus a poor neighborhood that has 400 people living in apartments on ten acres.

so stop the idiocy

Excuse me.. but you really don't get it do you. You are right..the top 5% aren't in that prison.. .

Who built the prison? Was it a public employee? Nope an private contractor.. (oops more money).. and who supplies the food to that prison? Who supplies the blankets, the sheets, the gosh darn BEDS.. who makes money off the uniforms the guards and inmates wear. Who supplies all the weapons, the vests that the guards wear?

You going to claim that they were all that expense didn't end up in a rich persons hands? And thats not even considering private prisons. The prison system is a HUGE cash cow to the wealthy and almost always has been from cheap prisoner labor in the early days (heck even now with call centers)_ to lucrative contracts supplying the prisons needs.

And as far as defense? Its costs twenty more times to defend the shipping of the wealthy person than it does the non existing shipping of the poor person. Or do you claim the average person worries about the strait of Hormuz? How about the wealthy that own industries that depend on oil imports?

You need to stop your idiocy.

 

[TurtleDude]

Excuse me.. but you really don't get it do you. You are right..the top 5% aren't in that prison.. .

Who built the prison? Was it a public employee? Nope an private contractor.. (oops more money).. and who supplies the food to that prison? Who supplies the blankets, the sheets, the gosh darn BEDS.. who makes money off the uniforms the guards and inmates wear. Who supplies all the weapons, the vests that the guards wear?

You going to claim that they were all that expense didn't end up in a rich persons hands? And thats not even considering private prisons. The prison system is a HUGE cash cow to the wealthy and almost always has been from cheap prisoner labor in the early days (heck even now with call centers)_ to lucrative contracts supplying the prisons needs.

And as far as defense? Its costs twenty more times to defend the shipping of the wealthy person than it does the non existing shipping of the poor person. Or do you claim the average person worries about the strait of Hormuz? How about the wealthy that own industries that depend on oil imports?

You need to stop your idiocy.

MOre stupidity. You seem to either be self loathing or a faux rich person. You are spewing the sort of crap we see from cubicle bunny white collar workers who pretend they have the goods to be in the corner office but never can quite grab the golden ring.
you love using stuff that cannot be costed out so you can make bombastic claims that cannot be disproven. Then again, they cannot be proven either so you fail

 

[eohrnberger]

Ummm, no.

Taxes are the cost of civilization.

Agreed. It's the cost of overhead. As such, it needs to be managed, and to the greatest extent possible, minimized.

Not mindlessly increased because the political nobility class says they need more money.

 

[voyager1]

I feel I owe my share of the government expenses

which is the cost of government divided by all the citizens. I suspect I pay far more than that share

The problem with that is the population is always growing and not everyone pays because not everyone has income. Also the fact we have deductions and credits makes it not an even field that you can take the population.

I have no real issue with expanding the tax base, but I do have a problem doing it so upper incomes/brackets get a lower rate.

 

[jaeger19]

MOre stupidity. You seem to either be self loathing or a faux rich person. You are spewing the sort of crap we see from cubicle bunny white collar workers who pretend they have the goods to be in the corner office but never can quite grab the golden ring.
you love using stuff that cannot be costed out so you can make bombastic claims that cannot be disproven. Then again, they cannot be proven either so you fail

Your insults are simply the result of your position not being valid. You have no other rejoinder because the fact is.. I am right.

You can try to claim the "poor me, I am rich" schtick as much as you want.. but the facts remain what they are.. that the wealthy control the politics AND the spending in this country.. The wealthy benefit far more from government than the average person.

My claims cannot be disproven because they are facts. They are proven every time a wealthy person looks at their financials and sees a government deposit from a government contract. ITs proven every time a person uses a welfare card and the money goes onto the wealthy shareholders dividend. Its proven every time a lobbyist from a major industry walks into a congressmans office.. .

That's the proof of what I speak.. proof that you choose to ignore because it doesn't jive with your fantasy world...

 

[wist43]

It seems most of you have no problem with government having its fingers into every aspect of a citizens life. If government were trimmed down to its constitutional limits, and performed only those functions, we wouldn't need taxes coming out of our ears to fund everything - and still run deficits!!

America was founded upon the principles of limited, republican government - trouble is our country abandoned those principles decades ago, and predictably there is no limit to the lust for power of those who seek to misuse government for their own ends.

Unfortunately, these truths are not taught in the government schools; and they are not allowed in the public debate. As long as the debate rages over who is going to get what from Sugar Daddy Government, no one seems to care that everything that isn't nailed down is being stolen from them - including their liberty.

Most of you people are not discussing solutions, you are talking about how to keep Sugar Daddy afloat and in charge.

 

[TurtleDude]

Your insults are simply the result of your position not being valid. You have no other rejoinder because the fact is.. I am right.

You can try to claim the "poor me, I am rich" schtick as much as you want.. but the facts remain what they are.. that the wealthy control the politics AND the spending in this country.. The wealthy benefit far more from government than the average person.

My claims cannot be disproven because they are facts. They are proven every time a wealthy person looks at their financials and sees a government deposit from a government contract. ITs proven every time a person uses a welfare card and the money goes onto the wealthy shareholders dividend. Its proven every time a lobbyist from a major industry walks into a congressmans office.. .

That's the proof of what I speak.. proof that you choose to ignore because it doesn't jive with your fantasy world...

I am noting your comments are stupid and they are. you believe in making the rich pay more than what they use which is a left wing position.

you make stuff up trying to justify this redistribution of income crap based on nonsensical claims that the rich "use"more but you cannot prove it

 

[TurtleDude]

The problem with that is the population is always growing and not everyone pays because not everyone has income. Also the fact we have deductions and credits makes it not an even field that you can take the population.

I have no real issue with expanding the tax base, but I do have a problem doing it so upper incomes/brackets get a lower rate.

I have a problem when most of the population are told the government can spend more and more and the majority doesn't face tax hikes because they won't stop the growth

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I have a problem when most of the population are told the government can spend more and more and the majority doesn't face tax hikes because they won't stop the growth

Um, spending ("spending is growing") is declining.

I guess rate of change is not studied in the Ivy League.

 

[jaeger19]

I am noting your comments are stupid and they are. you believe in making the rich pay more than what they use which is a left wing position.

you make stuff up trying to justify this redistribution of income crap based on nonsensical claims that the rich "use"more but you cannot prove it

Nope.. I have already proven it.. multiple times. Every time I give you another example.. and then you find out "oops" you were wrong again. Like I just pointed out with federal prisons.

No rebuttal from you when I point out who benefits from building a prison, or supplying it, so on and so forth.

And thats because you got nothing.. the facts are what I have pointed out.

Now you are making stuff up about "trying to justify redistribution"... Nope.. another load of BS from you.

This country has debt.. a lot of it.. and we need to pay it down so we do not burden my kids. Solely decreasing spending cannot get us there without hurting our economy.. and therefore raising taxes makes sense...

The debt needs to be paid. Raising taxes on the poor and middle class only taxes money out of their hands and hurts the economy. Therefore the best most logical and conservative policy is to raise taxes on the wealthy.

Simple fact.

 

[TurtleDude]

Nope.. I have already proven it.. multiple times. Every time I give you another example.. and then you find out "oops" you were wrong again. Like I just pointed out with federal prisons.

No rebuttal from you when I point out who benefits from building a prison, or supplying it, so on and so forth.

And thats because you got nothing.. the facts are what I have pointed out.

Now you are making stuff up about "trying to justify redistribution"... Nope.. another load of BS from you.

This country has debt.. a lot of it.. and we need to pay it down so we do not burden my kids. Solely decreasing spending cannot get us there without hurting our economy.. and therefore raising taxes makes sense...

The debt needs to be paid. Raising taxes on the poor and middle class only taxes money out of their hands and hurts the economy. Therefore the best most logical and conservative policy is to raise taxes on the wealthy.

Simple fact.

You haven't proven anything. You make opinions as to what the rich use unsupported by any evidence

pure crap.

you aren't a conservative either. You are a welfare socialist

 

[TurtleDude]

Um, spending ("spending is growing") is declining.

I guess rate of change is not studied in the Ivy League.

You have yet to post anything that suggests in depth study on this subject

 

[MTAtech]

There's no duty to pay taxes. Taxes are simply theft by the government, and unfortunately, it's extremely hard for the poor to avoid that theft.

"Taxes, are the dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

In the end, government has a legitimate right to tax and to state that taxation is theft is simply moronic.

There is no duty to pay more taxes than the law mandates. That doesn't mean you have no duty to pay taxes. The federal prisons have tenants that believed that they have no duty to pay taxes.

 

[TurtleDude]

"Taxes, are the dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

In the end, government has a legitimate right to tax and to state that taxation is theft is simply moronic.

the problem with FDR (the biggest scourge on our government in history) is that lots of people expect to use all the benefits of the club yet they pay NONE or almost NONE of the dues

 

[MTAtech]

the problem with FDR (the biggest scourge on our government in history) is that lots of people expect to use all the benefits of the club yet they pay NONE or almost NONE of the dues

You can thank Saint Reagan for that. From the Heritage Foundation in 1985:

The Reagan plan seeks specifically to raise the zero-bracket amount and personal exemptions and to expand the earned income tax credit, thereby improving the lot of the poor and of families. If enacted, the Reagan proposal would ensure that families with income at or below the poverty level no longer paid any federal income tax.

 

[TurtleDude]

You can thank Saint Reagan for that. From the Heritage Foundation in 1985:

we never should have taxed income in the first place.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You have yet to post anything that suggests in depth study on this subject

False and ironic.

The notion that deficits are increasing is a sign of ignorance in the subject you are making declaratives upon.

 

[jaeger19]

You haven't proven anything. You make opinions as to what the rich use unsupported by any evidence

pure crap.

you aren't a conservative either. You are a welfare socialist

Sure I have.. its supported by reality.

And I am very much a conservative... I once again defy you to point to any position I hold that is not conservative...

good luck..

 

[nic11]

the problem with FDR (the biggest scourge on our government in history) is that lots of people expect to use all the benefits of the club yet they pay NONE or almost NONE of the dues

By lots, how many do you estimate?

I also hope you include those that use the "commons" the most, esp. the courts to enforce trade laws, international, interstate commerce, wall st. corporate laws...etc.

You didn't still think them "welfare queens" in da hood were da ones usin' up all our taxes did ya?

 

[jaeger19]

By lots, how many do you estimate?

I also hope you include those that use the "commons" the most, esp. the courts to enforce trade laws, international, interstate commerce, wall st. corporate laws...etc.

You didn't still think them "welfare queens" in da hood were da ones usin' up all our taxes did ya?

hey.. not only are the welfare queens using up our taxes.. but those very welfare queens are the ones that are walking the halls of power in this country. Politicians are doing what THEY say.. and not the poor disenfranchised rich people... :lamo

 

[MTAtech]

hey.. not only are the welfare queens using up our taxes.. but those very welfare queens are the ones that are walking the halls of power in this country. Politicians are doing what THEY say.. and not the poor disenfranchised rich people... :lamo

Yeah, because rich people have no influence on public policy -- in fantasyland. Do you think it's an accident that one can't use bankruptcy to relieve a credit card debt but one can use it to relieve the debt on a $10 million home? Enron's former executives shielded millions of dollars in assets from shareholders and employees by shifting it into luxury multimillion-dollar mansions.

 

[jaeger19]

Yeah, because rich people have no influence on public policy -- in fantasyland. Do you think it's an accident that one can't use bankruptcy to relieve a credit card debt but one can use it to relieve the debt on a $10 million home? Enron's former executives shielded millions of dollars in assets from shareholders and employees by shifting it into luxury multimillion-dollar mansions.

No no no... you got it all wrong... why just the other day..while going to lobby my congressman to help with a bill that my trade organization is lobbying for.... (and give substantial sums to his campaign fund).. I had to wait in line behind all the poor welfare moms that were talking to the congressman and telling him how to vote... :roll:

Gosh.. if only we could have access to congress like those welfare moms... and the homeless! You know that the homeless? That's where the real power lies in this country... :roll: