Lowering Taxes does NOT create jobs?

[prohobo]

One of the biggest arguments on taxes by Democrats is that lowering taxes does not create jobs. In some cases I have even heard that lowering taxes actually reduces jobs.

It reeks of B.S. and the proof is the exodus of businesses from California. Charles Schwab, Hewlett Packard, and Boeing are all leaving the state and all have claimed a big part of that was the cost of high state taxes.

What I find more absurd is that New York, a Democrat state, is now running ads to attract business by offering NO TAX for 10 years. So my question to the Democrats - if they actually BELIEVE that lowering taxes does NOT create jobs, then how come;

A. Businesses are leaving California and naming that the reason - these companies moving are resulting in a LOSS of jobs.
B. How come Democrat state NY is offering NO TAXES to business to move there - which is proof that if you pay no taxes and companies open up shop there it CREATES jobs.

 

[PirateMk1]

One of the biggest arguments on taxes by Democrats is that lowering taxes does not create jobs. In some cases I have even heard that lowering taxes actually reduces jobs.

It reeks of B.S. and the proof is the exodus of businesses from California. Charles Schwab, Hewlett Packard, and Boeing are all leaving the state and all have claimed a big part of that was the cost of high state taxes.

What I find more absurd is that New York, a Democrat state, is now running ads to attract business by offering NO TAX for 10 years. So my question to the Democrats - if they actually BELIEVE that lowering taxes does NOT create jobs, then how come;

A. Businesses are leaving California and naming that the reason - these companies moving are resulting in a LOSS of jobs.
B. How come Democrat state NY is offering NO TAXES to business to move there - which is proof that if you pay no taxes and companies open up ship there it CREATES jobs.

If I was a business I still wouldn't move to New York, they are notorious for their tax aggressiveness and what are the catches for the no tax deal. And holy **** batman their no tax deal still don't make up for all the alphabet soup bull**** you have to go though up there. They are worse then California on taxes and that is damned hard to do.

 

[votemout]

Proven fact lowering taxes increases tax revenue.
Why? because when people have more money to spend they will spend it. Once people feel "richer" they will spend more.
Also you can see the JOB creation the Reagan admin created By cutting taxes. The proof is out there

 

[prohobo]

Proven fact lowering taxes increases tax revenue.
Why? because when people have more money to spend they will spend it. Once people feel "richer" they will spend more.

I guess you could add to that it attracts more businesses, which means more jobs, which means more incomes, which equals more spending.

 

[votemout]

The democrats now all of this as well.

 

[KevinKohler]

Lowering taxes for those with the highest propensity to spend that saved income creates demand.

 

[pdog]

One of the biggest arguments on taxes by Democrats is that lowering taxes does not create jobs. In some cases I have even heard that lowering taxes actually reduces jobs.

Democratic resistance to lowering taxes is almost always in resistance to lower PERSONAL taxes for the RICH where money is simply saved (invested in a bloated capital market) instead of spent. These are an important set of distinctions.

It reeks of B.S. and the proof is the exodus of businesses from California. Charles Schwab, Hewlett Packard, and Boeing are all leaving the state and all have claimed a big part of that was the cost of high state taxes.

Another important distinction is sweetheart deals vs current law. California actually has a lower tax overhead than the national average but it isn't giving out "incentives":
According to a 2012 study, the average state and local business tax rate relative to gross state product was 4.8%. Texas was 5.2 and california was 4.5%.
(Oops: The Texas Miracle That Isn’t by Phillip Longman | The Washington Monthly)

What I find more absurd is that New York, a Democrat state, is now running ads to attract business by offering NO TAX for 10 years. So my question to the Democrats - if they actually BELIEVE that lowering taxes does NOT create jobs, then how come;

A. Businesses are leaving California and naming that the reason - these companies moving are resulting in a LOSS of jobs.
B. How come Democrat state NY is offering NO TAXES to business to move there - which is proof that if you pay no taxes and companies open up shop there it CREATES jobs.

Yes - advertising to steal jobs from other states is pointless. It does nothing for the benefit of the entire nation - it simply moves jobs around creating inefficiency and instability as well as robbing the state of education, environmental, and social resources to pay for the incentives or tax cuts. This is a cornerstone of the Texas growth model. Thank you for supporting me on this point:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/government-spending-and-debt/195224-texas-miracle-isnt.html

 

[pdog]

Proven fact lowering taxes increases tax revenue.

This is only true if you are on the wrong side of the very rough "laffer curve" which no economist thinks we are.

Why? because when people have more money to spend they will spend it. Once people feel "richer" they will spend more.
Also you can see the JOB creation the Reagan admin created By cutting taxes. The proof is out there

This is completely backwards. Those at the bottom have the highest propensity to consume - they spend the highest percentage of their income - typically 100% or more - up until the point where their needs are met and they begin to save.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Ehhh it doesnt add up so much..

 

[prohobo]

Democratic resistance to lowering taxes is almost always in resistance to lower PERSONAL taxes for the RICH where money is simply saved (invested in a bloated capital market) instead of spent. These are an important set of distinctions.

The RICH do NOT care about INCOME TAX, because if you are in the 1% the majority of your wealth is not based on INCOME. It is the reason why Warren Buffet doesn't care about RAISING taxes on the rich, because you are not taxing his WEALTH.

It is a silly rhetoric that Democrats use to obtain votes as they KNOW the real math has nothing to do with it.

Another important distinction is sweetheart deals vs current law. California actually has a lower tax overhead than the national average but it isn't giving out "incentives":
According to a 2012 study, the average state and local business tax rate relative to gross state product was 4.8%. Texas was 5.2 and california was 4.5%.
(Oops: The Texas Miracle That Isn’t by Phillip Longman | The Washington Monthly)

I lived in California and worked for a company that left (to a state that has NO income tax and NO corporate tax), that allowed the company to hire MORE employees.

Fact is companies are LEAVING on a net basis from California for lower cost states. Additionally NY is trying to attract businesses by offering NO TAXES.

Follow the money and ignore the rhetoric.

Yes - advertising to steal jobs from other states is pointless. It does nothing for the benefit of the entire nation - it simply moves jobs around creating inefficiency and instability as well as robbing the state of education, environmental, and social resources to pay for the incentives or tax cuts. This is a cornerstone of the Texas growth model. Thank you for supporting me on this point:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/government-spending-and-debt/195224-texas-miracle-isnt.html

Except it is not just stealing jobs from other states it can CREATE new jobs. In my example, the company that left California saved enough in taxes to EXPAND their employment - so the move CREATED more jobs.

Additionally - you sound like a Federalist, what about state's rights?

 

[Bigfoot 88]

The more money left in the private sector, the more money there is to expand, produce, higher, and buy. Of course it creates jobs. It's a logical truth.

 

[prohobo]

Ehhh it doesnt add up so much..

Nice charts - from the NYT and American Progressive....

Ever thought about doing the math objectively and removing the Left/Right bias of think tanks and media?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Nice charts - from the NYT and American Progressive....

Ever thought about doing the math objectively and removing the Left/Right bias of think tanks and media?

The Bureau of Labor Statistics and Tax Policy Center, and Bureau of Economic Analysis are think tanks and media? After all those are the sources of the two graphs.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

The more money left in the private sector, the more money there is to expand, produce, higher, and buy. Of course it creates jobs. It's a logical truth.

It depends on whether or not that money is used to buy stuff. For example, if the government lowered Bill Gates' taxes by $10,000, it probably wouldn't affect his spending one bit, and the economy wouldn't be affected. But if they lowered my taxes by $10,000, I would probably spend $8000 of that. And if the govt. simply taxed away the $10,000, they would spend $10,000 of it.

 

[prohobo]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics and Tax Policy Center, and Bureau of Economic Analysis are think tanks and media? After all those are the sources of the two graphs.

The graphs were CREATED by data from the BLS and other sources - however so are ALL Left and Right think tank graphs. The problem is are they using "seasonal adjustments", what dollars are they using, are they adjusting for inflation, what data are they using, etc.

You can make any chart any way you want to look by parsing the data together.... Heritage Foundation or NYT - they all source the same data, just use it differently... Of course I haven't even touched on the quality of the data, which is certainly questionable as well.

eace

 

[AJiveMan]

Democratic resistance to lowering taxes is almost always in resistance to lower PERSONAL taxes for the RICH where money is simply saved (invested in a bloated capital market) instead of spent. These are an important set of distinctions.



Another important distinction is sweetheart deals vs current law. California actually has a lower tax overhead than the national average but it isn't giving out "incentives":
According to a 2012 study, the average state and local business tax rate relative to gross state product was 4.8%. Texas was 5.2 and california was 4.5%.
(Oops: The Texas Miracle That Isn’t by Phillip Longman | The Washington Monthly)




Yes - advertising to steal jobs from other states is pointless. It does nothing for the benefit of the entire nation - it simply moves jobs around creating inefficiency and instability as well as robbing the state of education, environmental, and social resources to pay for the incentives or tax cuts. This is a cornerstone of the Texas growth model. Thank you for supporting me on this point:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/government-spending-and-debt/195224-texas-miracle-isnt.html

You just described Wisconsin to a T, thanks for that.

Here's just one example;

Spooner, WI. Wal-Mart Finally Kills Project. Really.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

The graphs were CREATED by data from the BLS and other sources - however so are ALL Left and Right think tank graphs. The problem is are they using "seasonal adjustments", what dollars are they using, are they adjusting for inflation, what data are they using, etc.

You can make any chart any way you want to look by parsing the data together.... Heritage Foundation or NYT - they all source the same data, just use it differently... Of course I haven't even touched on the quality of the data, which is certainly questionable as well.

eace

If your going to try to debunk a post and data you should at least provide evidence other than, "it could be false"

 

[AJiveMan]

The RICH do NOT care about INCOME TAX, because if you are in the 1% the majority of your wealth is not based on INCOME. It is the reason why Warren Buffet doesn't care about RAISING taxes on the rich, because you are not taxing his WEALTH.

It is a silly rhetoric that Democrats use to obtain votes as they KNOW the real math has nothing to do with it.




I lived in California and worked for a company that left (to a state that has NO income tax and NO corporate tax), that allowed the company to hire MORE employees.

Fact is companies are LEAVING on a net basis from California for lower cost states. Additionally NY is trying to attract businesses by offering NO TAXES.

Follow the money and ignore the rhetoric.




Except it is not just stealing jobs from other states it can CREATE new jobs. In my example, the company that left California saved enough in taxes to EXPAND their employment - so the move CREATED more jobs.

Additionally - you sound like a Federalist, what about state's rights?

More minimum wage jobs you probably mean.

 

[Tettsuo]

Nuance... thy name is not Conservative.

Tax cuts for those who will spend the extra cash immediately. Those who will not, should not get a tax cut if your goal is to stimulate the economy.

Very simple.

 

[prohobo]

More minimum wage jobs you probably mean.

The minimum wage argument is silly and is only a paid to a minority of the working population (unskilled)
HP, Boeing, Charles Schwab an others that left California and claimed that taxes were a big decision are NOT paying minimum wage to their employees.

 

[prohobo]

If your going to try to debunk a post and data you should at least provide evidence other than, "it could be false"

Why bother, those that conflate correlation with causation can never been proven wrong. It's akin to debating the existence of god.

 

[Tettsuo]

One of the biggest arguments on taxes by Democrats is that lowering taxes does not create jobs. In some cases I have even heard that lowering taxes actually reduces jobs.

It reeks of B.S. and the proof is the exodus of businesses from California. Charles Schwab, Hewlett Packard, and Boeing are all leaving the state and all have claimed a big part of that was the cost of high state taxes.

What I find more absurd is that New York, a Democrat state, is now running ads to attract business by offering NO TAX for 10 years. So my question to the Democrats - if they actually BELIEVE that lowering taxes does NOT create jobs, then how come;

A. Businesses are leaving California and naming that the reason - these companies moving are resulting in a LOSS of jobs.
B. How come Democrat state NY is offering NO TAXES to business to move there - which is proof that if you pay no taxes and companies open up shop there it CREATES jobs.

Where's your proof that anything you say is accurate?

Please prove that cutting taxes across the board creates jobs.

 

[AJiveMan]

The minimum wage argument is silly and is only a paid to a minority of the working population (unskilled)
HP, Boeing, Charles Schwab an others that left California and claimed that taxes were a big decision are NOT paying minimum wage to their employees.

see posts 16 & 19 for more information.

 

[prohobo]

Where's your proof that anything you say is accurate?

Please prove that cutting taxes across the board creates jobs.

I posted two anecdotal evidence.

1. California is losing big business that are moving to lower tax rate states. Saving taxes, means a company can EXPAND their expenditures, one of which is jobs.

2. NY is trying to attract business (new or existing) by offering NO TAXES for 10 years. Obviously they feel that paying NO TAXES will create jobs. How many businesses are thinking about starting or moving to NY? If a new business decides it is viable and can save money, that NEW business created a job. If an existing business moves there because it can save money and expand operations, that existing business created a job.


Thomas Paine said it best - "The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is Reason. I have never used any other, and I trust I never shall." Hopefully some logic and reason is all the proof one needs. However, I think the California and New York situation is compelling enough. For first hand knowledge, the business I work with moved from California and saved enough to hire two new employees (not minimum wage - salary positions).


So I put to you...Where is YOUR proof that RAISING taxes creates jobs?

 

[Tettsuo]

So I put to you...Where is YOUR proof that RAISING taxes creates jobs?

Never made that claim. Raising taxes is for cutting deficits. See Clinton and Obama's deficit stats for evidence.

The two Democrats that have been in office and their record on the deficit stands in stark contrast to the deficit standings of their fellow Republican presidents in the last 30 or 40 years doesn't it? Republicans have only increased the deficit overtime, Democrats have reduced it.