Louisiana Lawmaker Forced to Clarify There Was No ‘Good’ in Slavery

[Ouroboros]

You just said it. There is French culture and it is DISTINCT from Spanish Culture and similarly from Romanian culture.
In other words.. they are distinct cultures.. not one.
You just blew up your own argument.

You might want to work on debate techniques. You rarely win a debate by defeating your own argument with your own words!!!

It’s not a defeat if it’s only in the mind of your opponent.

 

[Ouroboros]

I see.. so according to you.. there is no such thing as Jewish stockbrokers?
I guess there aren;t black athletes either.
Or white golfers..
OR..
You just said it.. Separate cultures. You also just defeated your own argument.

Whoa.. interesting. So.. according to you.. Europeans are the only ones that formed AMERICAN culture?

Please explain how Europeans are the only contributors to AMERICAN culture.

Nope, you’re the one who advanced the stereotype, that’s all on you.

The separate cultures “straw man” has already been dismantled by Aliza, and you didn’t understand it then, so why repeat it to the proverbial brick wall?

Europeans were plalnly the DOMINANT influences, so that’s the first thing to examine when speaking of American culture at all. Then we can talk about tobacco and jazz et al.

 

[jaeger19]

You have simply not understood what I said and why I said it.

This is not a *debate*. I am providing you with the most basic and elemental information in these last posts. This is all new to you. You have never had to think about any of this, ever!

Actually..its obvious you have never really thought about say if this. Which is why you have no evidence to support your assertions.

 

[jaeger19]

Your evidence just tells you what you want to hear. Allegations of systemic racism will always be interpretations, not facts.

Yeah ..no. the research proves you wrong. But it's not surprising you feel that way..since you have no idea how research and critical thinking work.

 

[jaeger19]

Nope, you’re the one who advanced the stereotype, that’s all on you.

The separate cultures “straw man” has already been dismantled by Aliza, and you didn’t understand it then, so why repeat it to the proverbial brick wall?

Europeans were plalnly the DOMINANT influences, so that’s the first thing to examine when speaking of American culture at all. Then we can talk about tobacco and jazz et al.

That's funny. You advanced it as a stereotype.
And now you go on to advance your theory that American culture was formed by Europeans.

 

[Ouroboros]

Actually..its obvious you have never really thought about say if this. Which is why you have no evidence to support your assertions.

What was “say if this” supposed to signify?

 

[Ouroboros]

Yeah ..no. the research proves you wrong. But it's not surprising you feel that way..since you have no idea how research and critical thinking work.

If you hadn’t already ignored my previous posts on the harmful effects of CRT, I could easily search and find other surveys that dispute your findings, such as those that prove how tiny a percentage of Black Male Deaths can be attributed to cops (in contrast to the narrative propounded by our race shaming president). But I don’t in general trust the citation of statistics, because it’s generally impossible to know in detail if the stat-takers have been accurate, and in any case you’re utterly married to systemic racism and unable to hear counter arguments.

The only evidence I need of the psychological harm of CRT is the testimony of adults that have been put through the wringer by this racist ideology. You don’t have a problem with putting kids through this sort of humiliation like so many lab rats, and I do.

 

[Ouroboros]

That's funny. You advanced it as a stereotype.
And now you go on to advance your theory that American culture was formed by Europeans.

I pointed out that you used an ethnic stereotype. Possibly it was done in ignorance, but that’s never been an excuse for any other white person (paging Roseanne Barr) so you don’t get to be the exception.

I wait with bated breath to hear your theory as to where American culture comes from.

 

[jaeger19]

What was “say if this” supposed to signify?

This.

 

[jaeger19]

I pointed out that you used an ethnic stereotype. Possibly it was done in ignorance, but that’s never been an excuse for any other white person (paging Roseanne Barr) so you don’t get to be the exception.

I wait with bated breath to hear your theory as to where American culture comes from.

No..you ASSUMED it was an ethnic stereotype.
When actuality it was me using my friend as an example. The same as I know montanan ranchers personally.and I doubt you know a one.
American culture is the amalgamation of pretty much all cultures. It's the embracing of the great melting pot. People like yourself wish to tear down that culture which is why our country is so divided.

 

[jaeger19]

If you hadn’t already ignored my previous posts on the harmful effects of CRT, I could easily search and find other surveys that dispute your findings, such as those that prove how tiny a percentage of Black Male Deaths can be attributed to cops (in contrast to the narrative propounded by our race shaming president). But I don’t in general trust the citation of statistics, because it’s generally impossible to know in detail if the stat-takers have been accurate, and in any case you’re utterly married to systemic racism and unable to hear counter arguments.

The only evidence I need of the psychological harm of CRT is the testimony of adults that have been put through the wringer by this racist ideology. You don’t have a problem with putting kids through this sort of humiliation like so many lab rats, and I do.

I didn't ignore your posts..I asked for evidence of these harmful effects. You presented none.
Frankly I don't see ANY evidence of crt as putting any kids through the ringer.
Why would teaching anyone to examine critically the laws and institutions and their effect on race..put anyone in a wringer?
That's all crt is.. critical thinking..critically examining the nuts and bolts of institutional racism.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

That's all CRT is ... critical thinking ... critically examining the nuts and bolts of institutional racism.

This is flatly false but like many essentially false statements it contains a truth. My suggestion is that when you encounter this sort of statement that you can catch an insight into the condition of the mind that thinks it, and by seeing and understanding that mind, that individual, you can then better understand the sort of *diminished thinking* that goes on today.

This sort of thinking is filled with a very specific will. To say *that is all CRT is* is to insist that this is all it is. It is to insist that it be true and to force it to be true when there is enough "evidence" [laughs] to indicate that there is a great deal of difference of opinion. And people who can or should be respected exist within both poles.

So, that is not *all that CRT is*. It involves critical examination and critical though, obviously (duh!) but it is an active, interpretive ideational stance in regard to historical events and current conditions. To think in the terms of CRT requires the adoption of a rather wide interpretive platform.

But for minds that can only think in terms of stark polarizations -- absolutist minds really -- CRT offers a set of reductions that are very useful.

So along comes @poppopfox who *likes* this simplistic, reductionist statement, because s/he sees things just like that!

@jaeger19 makes the mistake of actually believing that those who take a position against doctrinaire CRT are denying through their resistance to CRT that racism within cultural and institutions exists. But that Jaeger thinks this is because his mind only functions through stark reductionism -- either it is or it is not. He must cling to his sense, quite subjective, that institutional racism is real and he has his own anecdotes to support that view.

CRT is a branch of an aggressive postmodernism and activist ideology that must be examined with some care and circumspection and from *a certain distance*.

In the political and the social world -- in the midst of the Culture Wars -- so many things are confused, murky and unclear. So Jaeger and most *progressive* defense of CRT is tied with a whole range of defenses in which those persons are engaged -- against the dread *Republicans* who decry CRT for a whole host and array of reasons.

But the real 'critical conversation' must take place outside of this melee.

Within the melee there are people with all sorts of strange intentionality. People who channel intense frustration and discontent, often quite emotional, into whatever theoretical position they can grab hold of. You can get a sense of this when watching people interviewed on the street, at a street level, when they reveal their extremely shallow views about cultural and political events. You can find these street interviews all over the Internet and on YouTube.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

I like the phrase “Greco-Christian” culture as an umbrella term that is not necessarily limited to Caucasian cultures but whose influence was most concentrated in those cultures. I recall someone making a good argument about the hybridization that arose from the philosophical priorities of the Greeks blended with the pietism of the Jews and Christians, cant recall who made it though.

To Jaeger19 you said:

I wait with bated breath to hear your theory as to where American culture comes from.

Waldo Frank, a writer an philosopher from the 20s and 30s, wrote an interesting study called The Re-Discovery of America. It is written in this clipped style. This is the opening and, I believe, expresses soundly and fairly what is the matrix of our own Occidentalism and our European culture. His idea is that out of a dying Europe (and he defines what this death is by reference to radically shifting existential notions about Reality) our America was born.

An interesting quote which made me think of that popular Sixties song about going out *in search of America*:

Waldo Frank: “We go forth all to seek America. And in the seeking we create her. In the quality of our search shall be the nature of the America that we created.”​

"Kathy, I'm lost", I said, though I knew she was sleeping​

I'm empty and aching and I don't know why...​

 

[Alizia Tyler]

 

[jaeger19]

If you hadn’t already ignored my previous posts on the harmful effects of CRT, I could easily search and find other surveys that dispute your findings, such as those that prove how tiny a percentage of Black Male Deaths can be attributed to cops (in contrast to the narrative propounded by our race shaming president). But I don’t in general trust the citation of statistics, because it’s generally impossible to know in detail if the stat-takers have been accurate, and in any case you’re utterly married to systemic racism and unable to hear counter arguments.

The only evidence I need of the psychological harm of CRT is the testimony of adults that have been put through the wringer by this racist ideology. You don’t have a problem with putting kids through this sort of humiliation like so many lab rats, and I do.

No I just asked for
evidence of these harmful effects. You presented none.
Frankly I don't see ANY evidence of crt as putting any kids through the ringer.
Why would teaching anyone to examine critically the laws and institutions and their effect on race..put anyone in a you wringer?
That's all crt is.. critical thinking..critically examining the nuts and bolts of institutional racism.
Ironically it's obvious that neither you nor alizia know anything about CRT.
In fact neither of you obviously read the material ..the training material that Alizia linked to.
Right in the training material..it states that people should not be made to feel guilty for what they did not know . In other words people.including white people should not be made to feel guilty for institutional racism.
Pretty much the opposite of what you say crt is about.
In fact crt proposes that racism is not collection of a morally bankrupt racist white people oppressing minorities..but instead it's the systemic racism in laws and institutions.
For example it's not racist police departments refusing to hire black police officers...
It's the systemic racism which makes it difficult for them to have candidates to hire.
I think I have figured out why you and alizia get so upset about CRT. It's easy for you do deny racism as " an opinion"..
But crt is about critically examining institutional racism.
And it's not so easy to dismiss actual evidence..like the research I presented.
1. Black people stopped by police more though much less on the road.
2. More likely to be searched..though the police are LESS likely to find contraband when searching a black person.
Facts over ignorance.

 

[jaeger19]

This is flatly false but like many essentially false statements it contains a truth. My suggestion is that when you encounter this sort of statement that you can catch an insight into the condition of the mind that thinks it, and by seeing and understanding that mind, that individual, you can then better understand the sort of *diminished thinking* that goes on today.

This sort of thinking is filled with a very specific will. To say *that is all CRT is* is to insist that this is all it is. It is to insist that it be true and to force it to be true when there is enough "evidence" [laughs] to indicate that there is a great deal of difference of opinion. And people who can or should be respected exist within both poles.

So, that is not *all that CRT is*. It involves critical examination and critical though, obviously (duh!) but it is an active, interpretive ideational stance in regard to historical events and current conditions. To think in the terms of CRT requires the adoption of a rather wide interpretive platform.

But for minds that can only think in terms of stark polarizations -- absolutist minds really -- CRT offers a set of reductions that are very useful.

So along comes @poppopfox who *likes* this simplistic, reductionist statement, because s/he sees things just like that!

@jaeger19 makes the mistake of actually believing that those who take a position against doctrinaire CRT are denying through their resistance to CRT that racism within cultural and institutions exists. But that Jaeger thinks this is because his mind only functions through stark reductionism -- either it is or it is not. He must cling to his sense, quite subjective, that institutional racism is real and he has his own anecdotes to support that view.

CRT is a branch of an aggressive postmodernism and activist ideology that must be examined with some care and circumspection and from *a certain distance*.

In the political and the social world -- in the midst of the Culture Wars -- so many things are confused, murky and unclear. So Jaeger and most *progressive* defense of CRT is tied with a whole range of defenses in which those persons are engaged -- against the dread *Republicans* who decry CRT for a whole host and array of reasons.

But the real 'critical conversation' must take place outside of this melee.

Within the melee there are people with all sorts of strange intentionality. People who channel intense frustration and discontent, often quite emotional, into whatever theoretical position they can grab hold of. You can get a sense of this when watching people interviewed on the street, at a street level, when they reveal their extremely shallow views about cultural and political events. You can find these street interviews all over the Internet and on YouTube.

Just show me the evidence alizia.
You presented a training book as evidence. I read it and found that what you though it said..was wrong. In fact it was obvious you hadn't even read it..but merely went by what you thought it said.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

Actually ... its obvious you have never really thought about say if this. Which is why you have no evidence to support your assertions.

YOU TALKIN' T'ME. YOU TALKIN' TO ME? WELL I'M THE ONLY ONE HERE . . .

I think I have figured out why you and Alizia get so upset about CRT. It's easy for you do deny racism as " an opinion"..
But crt is about critically examining institutional racism.

What I say, in clear terms, you simply and bizarrely, cannot understand. I see this condition as *mental derangement*. You cannot think, you cannot analyze properly, you *mishear* everything.

Just show me the evidence Alizia.

::: laughs :::

 

[vanceen]

...
That's all crt is.. critical thinking..critically examining the nuts and bolts of institutional racism.

No, it's certainly not just "critically examining" anything. It presents all kinds of conclusions which many people disagree with and view to be negative.

 

[jaeger19]

YOU TALKIN' T'ME. YOU TALKIN' TO ME? WELL I'M THE ONLY ONE HERE . . .

What I say, in clear terms, you simply and bizarrely, cannot understand. I see this condition as *mental derangement*. You cannot think, you cannot analyze properly, you *mishear* everything.

::: laughs :::

Just show the evidence.
Your personal attacks just prove how desperate and weak your logic is.

 

[jaeger19]

No, it's certainly not just "critically examining" anything. It presents all kinds of conclusions which many people disagree with and view to be negative.

No ..it critically examines systemic racism
That's the point. For example the study I presented.
However..you are elcome to provide your evidence on what CRT is and how its applied.

 

[vanceen]

No ..it critically examines systemic racism
That's the point. For example the study I presented.
However..you are elcome to provide your evidence on what CRT is and how its applied.

This thread is loaded with links and quotes that provide ample evidence of what I said. CRT is not just an "examination", it's a position.

 

[jaeger19]

This thread is loaded with links and quotes that provide ample evidence of what I said. CRT is not just an "examination", it's a position.

Um no... the thread is loaded with links from me..that show crt is just an examination..a way of critically examining the law and its effect on race.
The rest of the thread is mostly those who have zero evidence of what crt is..how it's to be applied..how it's being applied etc..but are making claims about it. So far..you are on that list. But I welcome what evidence you have.

 

[vanceen]

Um no... the thread is loaded with links from me..that show crt is just an examination..a way of critically examining the law and its effect on race.
The rest of the thread is mostly those who have zero evidence of what crt is..how it's to be applied..how it's being applied etc..but are making claims about it. So far..you are on that list. But I welcome what evidence you have.

Your willingness to ignore what's in this thread causes me to doubt your interest in evidence.

 

[jaeger19]

Your willingness to ignore what's in this thread causes me to doubt your interest in evidence.

Actually I haven't ignored anything. Mores the pity for the waste of time it's been reading alizias and borous..rambling..disconnected and usually completely unrelated and unsupported posts.
I have pointed out that they are not offering evidence but simply repeating their own ideology with no evidence. In fact ..alizua attempted to present evidence from a training manual. I read the manual and showed how the manual refuted what she was saying.
However..if you really believe that there is a plethora of evidence on this thread supporting those assertions about crt?
Great. It should be easy then for you to present said evidence. Let's start with the assertion that crt has caused psychological damage in children.
Let's see your evidence of this.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

Just show me the evidence Alizia. You presented a training book as evidence.

We talk on different levels. You could not understand when I asserted that there are *foundations* and *seeds* to all European cultures. You struggled to understand how your own German-American (I assume frontier-Western) cultural background was informed by the Greco-Christian traditions (very much so if you are or were Lutheran or German-Catholic).

But yet I indicated how this is actually so.

Obviously, when you say *culture* you mean something different from what I am getting at. When you say *culture* you mean sort of a pocket or a separated, independent culture-group. So in this sense I do understand what you mean.

As to CRT you are in a similar bind. You notice that CRT (those who define its praxis and its activist ideology) assert that injustice exists. CRT says that these are *systematic*. And you take this in an absolute sense.

If I say that *CRT has faults* or even *many faults* and that it is, often and largely, 'anti-Liberal' and (as I also say) 'destructive' -- you take this as an assertion that injustice does not or has not existed.

Then, when I say that, yes, I do recognize injustice, you say "Well then why are you taking a position against CRT?!?"

If you try to grasp that we are focused on different things aspects you will better grasp the division in this *conversation*.

PS: You did not tell me the name of your horse but I intuited it is *Juniper*. Not a bad name by any means!