• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Lithium-sulfur Gigafactory to be Built in Nevada

Michael Cole

Michael Cole

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
64,149
Reaction score
57,820
Location
Northern Nevada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Reuters:


Oct 15 (Reuters) - Silicon Valley startup Lyten announced on Tuesday its plan to build the world's first gigafactory for lithium-sulfur batteries in Reno, Nevada, as companies seek to capitalize on the demand for more affordable power sources for electric vehicles.

...Efforts to reduce reliance on China for battery materials have also encouraged companies to develop domestic supply chains in North America, but industry experts have cautioned that establishing a robust and independent supply chain for EV battery cells will take several years.

...The company said its lithium-sulfur cells have high energy density, which could make it up to 40% lighter than lithium-ion cells.

A local report and video:

mynews4.com

Lyten to invest $1 billion in Nevada for world's first lithium-sulfur gigafactory

Lyten, a leader in lithium-sulfur battery technology, has announced plans to invest $1 billion in constructing the world's first lithium-sulfur battery gigafact
mynews4.com mynews4.com

Lyten has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Dermody Properties to establish the facility. The company is hosting a press event on October 16 at the Reno-Stead Airport to discuss the impact of this investment and celebrate the community stakeholders involved.

This is the first I've heard of lithium-sulfur batteries. What sticks out is the 40% reduction in weight. If they prove reliable, I would think this alone will seal the technology's success. The ability to produce these batteries without foreign sourced materials is also a big plus.

Is this the new and improved battery technology? Lyten and its creditors are betting a billion dollars it is.
 
The claim is 550 Wh/kg, but it will be impressive if they can do that, and recharge quickly.
 
Investments and innovation like in the OP is needed both to catch up with China as well as combating climate change.


www.pbs.org

The hottest summer on record could lead to our warmest year ever measured. Again.

Summer 2024 sweltered to Earth's hottest on record, making it even more likely that this year will end up as the warmest humanity has measured, European climate service Copernicus reported Friday.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

There the Inflation Reduction Act plays an important part.

 
Michael Cole said:
Reuters:


Oct 15 (Reuters) - Silicon Valley startup Lyten announced on Tuesday its plan to build the world's first gigafactory for lithium-sulfur batteries in Reno, Nevada, as companies seek to capitalize on the demand for more affordable power sources for electric vehicles.

...Efforts to reduce reliance on China for battery materials have also encouraged companies to develop domestic supply chains in North America, but industry experts have cautioned that establishing a robust and independent supply chain for EV battery cells will take several years.

...The company said its lithium-sulfur cells have high energy density, which could make it up to 40% lighter than lithium-ion cells.

A local report and video:

mynews4.com

Lyten to invest $1 billion in Nevada for world's first lithium-sulfur gigafactory

Lyten, a leader in lithium-sulfur battery technology, has announced plans to invest $1 billion in constructing the world's first lithium-sulfur battery gigafact
mynews4.com mynews4.com

Lyten has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Dermody Properties to establish the facility. The company is hosting a press event on October 16 at the Reno-Stead Airport to discuss the impact of this investment and celebrate the community stakeholders involved.

This is the first I've heard of lithium-sulfur batteries. What sticks out is the 40% reduction in weight. If they prove reliable, I would think this alone will seal the technology's success. The ability to produce these batteries without foreign sourced materials is also a big plus.

Is this the new and improved battery technology? Lyten and its creditors are betting a billion dollars it is.
Click to expand...
The basic battery design has been around since the 60's, but they do not have the recharge cycles needed. There is a 2022 announcement where someone thinks that was solved. I wouldn't be to hopeful on this design. My odds is this is a government backed expenditure that will fail as spectacularly as Solyndra did, and people will get rich off of a failure at tax payer expense.
 
Mach said:
www.independent.co.uk

Breakthrough could bring new batteries that charge in a few minutes

Technology could allow for new kinds of electric flying vehicles, proponents say
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

They may be swinging based on this. 5 minute charge time (in the lab, so they claim).
Click to expand...
When a battery technology is capable of that speed of charge, that doesn't mean we can realistically charge a car even close to that. As the charge time decreases, the amount of current increases. This means the conductors for the electricity become larger and larger, adding wight. This isn't as much of a problem for the car weight as it is for the weight of the charging cable that needs to be handled.

Think of it like this. You buy a plug in lamp and the cable you plug into the wall is relatively small. Your microwave oven that uses more power is a larger size wire. An electric stove or dryer uses a larger power cable yet.

The massive amount of power electric cars use, means a very large cable compared to any household appliance.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The basic battery design has been around since the 60's, but they do not have the recharge cycles needed. There is a 2022 announcement where someone thinks that was solved. I wouldn't be to hopeful on this design. My odds is this is a government backed expenditure that will fail as spectacularly as Solyndra did, and people will get rich off of a failure at tax payer expense.
Click to expand...
Your odds? It's a private company backed with private funding. Why would it fail? The company is a world leader. Do you really think investors are spending $1b on a hunch?
 
Michael Cole said:
It's a battery factory. A gigafactory. The company has customers. Why would Lyten fail?
Click to expand...
Why would something like that fail?
How about if the batteries produced do not hold up to the claims, and do not last long or worse kill people and burn down their homes?
 
longview said:
Why would something like that fail?
How about if the batteries produced do not hold up to the claims, and do not last long or worse kill people and burn down their homes?
Click to expand...
They've been manufacturing the batteries for years. It's just a big factory.
 
Michael Cole said:
They've been manufacturing the batteries for years. It's just a big factory.
Click to expand...
But the battery they want to build is new, and has not been in the market.
Theory is great until it is tested by reality!
Will the printed Graphene hold up to thousands of charging cycles?
Can the batteries take a high charging current without breaking down?
Going from the ~240 Wh/kg to 550 Wh/kg is a great step, if it works.
It might be what pushes battery electric cars into practical reality,
but physics has a way of limiting such things as rapid charging.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PoS
longview said:
But the battery they want to build is new, and has not been in the market.
Theory is great until it is tested by reality!
Will the printed Graphene hold up to thousands of charging cycles?
Can the batteries take a high charging current without breaking down?
Going from the ~240 Wh/kg to 550 Wh/kg is a great step, if it works.
It might be what pushes battery electric cars into practical reality,
but physics has a way of limiting such things as rapid charging.
Click to expand...
They've been manufacturing the batteries for years. Not many, but a few. Anything can happen, but Ima little more optimistic than you.
 
Ive always found it ironic that climate cultists champion lithium mining, the most environmentally destructive form of mining, claiming it would "save" the earth. The lack of any logic truly boggles the mind.
 
PoS said:
Ive always found it ironic that climate cultists champion lithium mining, the most environmentally destructive form of mining, claiming it would "save" the earth. The lack of any logic truly boggles the mind.
Click to expand...
The lithium mine is out in the middle of nowhere. Environmental damage will be minimal and effect no one.

I find it odd that so-called capitalists root for business failure based on their politics.

Myself, I'm a capitalist. Not so-called, such as you. I'm not in a cult. I'm into technological advancement. I'm into making a profit off of technological advancement. I'm pro-growth. I'm pro- job creation. This project accomplishes all these.

I'm betting with Lyten. You can put your money on failure. Being a so-called capitalist, I'd expect nothing less.
 
Volunteer said:
Lord of Planar says he doesn't believe the facts I presented regarding my lithium battery powering my house when the utility grid failed during Hurricane Helene. Good luck trying to have a discussion.
Click to expand...
That is because you misrepresented the facts, You did not heat the water with solar electricity but from propane.
 
Volunteer said:
Lord of Planar says he doesn't believe the facts I presented regarding my lithium battery powering my house when the utility grid failed during Hurricane Helene. Good luck trying to discuss batteries with him.
Click to expand...
The anti- battery technology attitude from the political far right is astounding. Lyten has developed a potentially groundbreaking technology, and the anti's scream, "Nope. Can't do that." Makes no sense.

The story is of local interest, which is how I became aware of the project. Musk was the first to enter the 21st century with his Tesla gigafactory which is also in the area. This alone has me scratching my head at the naysayers. Panasonic has been producing Tesla batteries for ten years. The plant not only hasn't failed, it's expanding. Why one would think Lyten will fail while Tesla hasn't is mind boggling.

Beyond this, the influx of battery technology investment in the area has been in the tens of billions. This Lyten plant just adds another bil to the total.

The university even offers a minor in battery technology and storage.

www.unr.edu

Minor in Batteries and Energy Storage Technologies | Degrees and Programs

Learn state-of-the-art skills with the interdisciplinary batteries and energy storage technologies minor at the University of Nevada, Reno.
www.unr.edu www.unr.edu

Musk located here for several reasons - over a billion in tax abatements being one - but the proximity to lithium was no coincidence. The Northern Nevada area is a center for battery technology. It is a major economic mover. Lyten isn't investing in a gigafactory because the technology is failing. Quite the opposite.

The future isn't only here, it's been happening for over a decade. Those of us who live and work here have seen it grow. It's only going to grow more.
 
Michael Cole said:
The anti- battery technology attitude from the political far right is astounding. Lyten has developed a potentially groundbreaking technology, and the anti's scream, "Nope. Can't do that." Makes no sense.

The story is of local interest, which is how I became aware of the project. Musk was the first to enter the 21st century with his Tesla gigafactory which is also in the area. This alone has me scratching my head at the naysayers. Panasonic has been producing Tesla batteries for ten years. The plant not only hasn't failed, it's expanding. Why one would think Lyten will fail while Tesla hasn't is mind boggling.

Beyond this, the influx of battery technology investment in the area has been in the tens of billions. This Lyten plant just adds another bil to the total.

The university even offers a minor in battery technology and storage.

www.unr.edu

Minor in Batteries and Energy Storage Technologies | Degrees and Programs

Learn state-of-the-art skills with the interdisciplinary batteries and energy storage technologies minor at the University of Nevada, Reno.
www.unr.edu www.unr.edu

Musk located here for several reasons - over a billion in tax abatements being one - but the proximity to lithium was no coincidence. The Northern Nevada area is a center for battery technology. It is a major economic mover. Lyten isn't investing in a gigafactory because the technology is failing. Quite the opposite.

The future isn't only here, it's been happening for over a decade. Those of us who live and work here have seen it grow. It's only going to grow more.
Click to expand...
There is no anti- battery technology attitude, batteries are great at what they do, the problem is when people expect batteries to do
thangs they are not great at.
For a home photovoltaic solar system, batteries can be a great way to supply electricity to periods without sunlight.
The energy density and weight of the batteries is not so much a factor, nor is the recharge time.
For cars both the weight and recharge time is a factor. Newer batteries have made short range cars practical,
but they are not yet a full replacement for how people use their cars.
For other transport application like heavy trucks, and passenger aircraft, batteries are a major limitation.
These new lithium-sulfur batteries are claiming a greater than doubling of the energy density, from 240 W h /kg to 550 W h/kg.
If they can really do that in a battery that can do several thousand recharge cycles, it will be a major step forward, but that is a big IF.
ANY significant advance in technology should be treated skeptically until they have something more than hopeful words.
So far I have only seen things like a D cell, but it remains to be seen how it scales.
 
longview said:
There is no anti- battery technology attitude,
Click to expand...
#4

My odds is this is a government backed expenditure that will fail as spectacularly as Solyndra did,

Clearly political.

longview said:
batteries are great at what they do, the problem is when people expect batteries to do
thangs they are not great at.
For a home photovoltaic solar system, batteries can be a great way to supply electricity to periods without sunlight.
The energy density and weight of the batteries is not so much a factor, nor is the recharge time.
For cars both the weight and recharge time is a factor. Newer batteries have made short range cars practical,
but they are not yet a full replacement for how people use their cars.
For other transport application like heavy trucks, and passenger aircraft, batteries are a major limitation.
These new lithium-sulfur batteries are claiming a greater than doubling of the energy density, from 240 W h /kg to 550 W h/kg.
If they can really do that in a battery that can do several thousand recharge cycles, it will be a major step forward, but that is a big IF.
ANY significant advance in technology should be treated skeptically until they have something more than hopeful words.
So far I have only seen things like a D cell, but it remains to be seen how it scales.
Click to expand...
This is well and good, but beyond the scope of my post. Before 2014, there was no lithium loop. Over the last ten years, beginning with Tesla/Panasonic, investment in battery technology has been in the tens of billions. Tens of thousands of jobs, a university minor, a new gigafactory being built - these are not signs of failure.

Through all the negative talk, the reality is something quite the opposite.
 
Michael Cole said:
#4

My odds is this is a government backed expenditure that will fail as spectacularly as Solyndra did,

Clearly political.


This is well and good, but beyond the scope of my post. Before 2014, there was no lithium loop. Over the last ten years, beginning with Tesla/Panasonic, investment in battery technology has been in the tens of billions. Tens of thousands of jobs, a university minor, a new gigafactory being built - these are not signs of failure.

Through all the negative talk, the reality is something quite the opposite.
Click to expand...
Not as big a concern for me, as the government involved was local and the support given was land.
While they did not say, I suspect the Federal government also supplied funds, or at least guaranteed funds.
The new technology is not proven, and could fail in spectacular fashion.
We just have to wait and see if they can back up their words, I for one hope so.
A 1000 pound battery that could push a car 1000 miles on a single charge, would be a game changer.
That level of energy density could open up other possibilities like pickup trucks, ect.
 
longview said:
Not as big a concern for me, as the government involved was local and the support given was land.
While they did not say, I suspect the Federal government also supplied funds, or at least guaranteed funds.
The new technology is not proven, and could fail in spectacular fashion.
We just have to wait and see if they can back up their words, I for one hope so.
A 1000 pound battery that could push a car 1000 miles on a single charge, would be a game changer.
That level of energy density could open up other possibilities like pickup trucks, ect.
Click to expand...
I don't know why you "suspect" things not documented, but that's you.

My point again. Battery technology is the future. Whether Lyten fails doesn't change this reality. Hoping for its failure - which is unmistakable - is bizarre, anti-capitalist behavior.

Batteries aren't political. And Lyten isn't going to fail.
 
Michael Cole said:
I don't know why you "suspect" things not documented, but that's you.

My point again. Battery technology is the future. Whether Lyten fails doesn't change this reality. Hoping for its failure - which is unmistakable - is bizarre, anti-capitalist behavior.

Batteries aren't political. And Lyten isn't going to fail.
Click to expand...
Do you know for certain the project received zero federal funding or loan guarantees?
I do not!
Energy storage is the future, what those "batteries" look like is very much open.
What is for certain is that something better than the current lithium ion batteries is needed.
Will lithium-sulfur do the job, perhaps, but it is only a step forward if they can actually build the batteries claimed.
I saw while looking this up, they are also looking at building another Gigafactory in Spain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom