Lifestyle, not oppression drives poverty

[Simpletruther]

Why Marriage Matters: It Reduces Poverty Risk | National Review

From the article:

For instance, only 9 percent of black Millennials who have followed the three steps of the sequence, or who are on track with the sequence (which means they have at least a high-school degree and worked full time in their twenties, but have not yet married or had children) are poor, compared with a 37 percent rate of poverty for blacks who have skipped one or two steps. Likewise, only 9 percent of young men and women from lower-income families who follow the sequence are poor in their late twenties and early thirties; by comparison, 31 percent of their peers from low-income families who missed one or two steps are now poor.


This a gripe I have with progressives. They attack the minor issues, and ignore the major ones, even discourage sometiens the very things that can lead to success, especially on marriage and children.


Just look at those numbers, 9% poverty rate versus 37%, lifestyle choices matter....a lot.

 

[Simpletruther]

Why Marriage Matters: It Reduces Poverty Risk | National Review

From the article:

For instance, only 9 percent of black Millennials who have followed the three steps of the sequence, or who are on track with the sequence (which means they have at least a high-school degree and worked full time in their twenties, but have not yet married or had children) are poor, compared with a 37 percent rate of poverty for blacks who have skipped one or two steps. Likewise, only 9 percent of young men and women from lower-income families who follow the sequence are poor in their late twenties and early thirties; by comparison, 31 percent of their peers from low-income families who missed one or two steps are now poor.


This a gripe I have with progressives. They attack the minor issues, and ignore the major ones, even discourage sometiens the very things that can lead to success, especially on marriage and children.


Just look at those numbers, 9% poverty rate versus 37%, lifestyle choices matter....a lot.

This topic is particularly relevant to blacks as the single parenthood numbers are much higher, and a big factor or what is driving poverty, and all the problems that come with it.

 

[jnug]

Naively Right wing....What pray tell drives these "lifestyle issues" as there is no hypothesis offered in the linked piece.

THIS SHOULD BE INTERESTING.

 

[Simpletruther]

Naively Right wing....What pray tell drives these "lifestyle issues" as there is no hypothesis offered in the linked piece.

THIS SHOULD BE INTERESTING.

Thst is complicated, but the nutshell is culture. On an individual level what dives the lifestyle is simply choices. But none of us are “free” from our surroundings ( culture) which greatly influence what we choose.

 

[jnug]

Thst is complicated, but the nutshell is culture. On an individual level what dives the lifestyle is simply choices. But none of us are “free” from our surroundings ( culture) which greatly influence what we choose.

OK, what is the most significant cultural influence in the history of Black Americans?

 

[Helix]

Right wingers shouldn't need airplanes. They should pull their bootstraps until they levitate and then will themselves towards their destinations. Anything less is laziness and poor decision making.

 

[jnug]

Right wingers shouldn't need airplanes. They should pull their bootstraps until they levitate and then will themselves towards their destinations. Anything less is laziness and poor decision making.

Damn....wish I had said that. I might steal it from you without crediting it!

 

[Simpletruther]

OK, what is the most significant cultural influence in the history of Black Americans?

I think what counts is what is influencing them Right now. And influence is everywhere, a little bit in every direction. And when you grow up with single parent being the norm and nobody is encouraging you differently, it’s much more likely to happen.

Just like when all your friends hate cops, you are likely to hate cops. And if you are taught real men don’t follow cops orders, you are much more likely to resist, etc etc.

 

[Helix]

Damn....wish I had said that. I might steal it from you without crediting it!

I'd say that you should consult my legal team, but as I didn't pull my bootstraps hard enough, I don't have one.

 

[Irredentist]

I think what counts is what is influencing them Right now. And influence is everywhere, a little bit in every direction. And when you grow up with single parent being the norm and nobody is encouraging you differently, it’s much more likely to happen.

Just like when all your friends hate cops, you are likely to hate cops. And if you are taught real men don’t follow cops orders, you are much more likely to resist, etc etc.

But why does black culture hate and fear authority? Why do they mistrust the police? Why do they not conform to the traditional family unit?

If you examine Black American culture in its proper context, as a culture that was created first and foremost by slavery, then these characteristics all start to make much more sense.

 

[jnug]

I think what counts is what is influencing them Right now. And influence is everywhere, a little bit in every direction. And when you grow up with single parent being the norm and nobody is encouraging you differently, it’s much more likely to happen.

Just like when all your friends hate cops, you are likely to hate cops. And if you are taught real men don’t follow cops orders, you are much more likely to resist, etc etc.

The simple fact is that 400 years of chattel slavery followed by the death of Reconstruction and 100 years of Jim Crow blew any reasonable expectation of American Blacks making it to YOUR notion of an average nominal lifestyle for a WASP entirely out of the water for them. American Blacks were so traumatized by it that they did not know that they should try to find themselves, were still not actually trying to find themselves until the mid-1960's and then did not actually start to find themselves to any degree worth talking about till the 1980's. Muhammed Ali was still roundly criticized by American Blacks and American Whites all the way through the 60's and 70's and no less a personage than he still had an uphill cultural slog into the 1980's. So if Muhammed was still slogging in the 1980's what progress do you think your average American Black was making?

As for today, the most highly educated Black Americans, the most well off Black Americans have basically FOUND THEMSELVES. They are the children of that 1980's generation. With any luck and a bit less of WASP hair and pants on fire and WASP resistance they may be able to help a larger share of the community of Black Americans find themselves.

 

[Simpletruther]

The simple fact is that 400 years of chattel slavery followed by the death of Reconstruction and 100 years of Jim Crow blew any reasonable expectation of American Blacks making it to YOUR notion of an average nominal lifestyle for a WASP entirely out of the water for them. American Blacks were so traumatized by it that they did not know that they should try to find themselves, were still not actually trying to find themselves until the mid-1960's and then did not actually start to find themselves to any degree worth talking about till the 1980's. Muhammed Ali was still roundly criticized by American Blacks and American Whites all the way through the 60's and 70's and no less a personage than he still had an uphill cultural slog into the 1980's. So if Muhammed was still slogging in the 1980's what progress do you think your average American Black was making?

As for today, the most highly educated Black Americans, the most well off Black Americans have basically FOUND THEMSELVES. They are the children of that 1980's generation. With any luck and a bit less of WASP hair and pants on fire and WASP resistance they may be able to help a larger share of the community of Black Americans find themselves.

And yet the big majority of blacks have indeed made those good choices. And are now middle class.

So it’s reasoanble to assume it can be done if localized culture changes.

There is no wasp resistance.

 

[Simpletruther]

But why does black culture hate and fear authority? Why do they mistrust the police? Why do they not conform to the traditional family unit?

If you examine Black American culture in its proper context, as a culture that was created first and foremost by slavery, then these characteristics all start to make much more sense.

I think marriage was actually much higher before then70s. I do not think slavery plays into the marriage rate now.

The recent single parent culture in inner cities is to a good degree a result of poor welfare policies in the 60# and 70s that gave financial incentives be be out of wedlock. Much of that welfare issue has been reformed, but the cultural legacy of that is hard to undue.

 

[Irredentist]

I think marriage was actually much higher before then70s. I do not think slavery plays into the marriage rate now.

The recent single parent culture in inner cities is to a good degree a result of poor welfare policies in the 60# and 70s that gave financial incentives be be out of wedlock. Much of that welfare issue has been reformed, but the cultural legacy of that is hard to undue.

That's not true at all. Expanded welfare for single parents came about as a response to the proliferation of single parent families. Not the other way around.

Frankly it's laughable that you talk about "enduring cultural legacies" while refusing to address the single biggest cultural legacy of Black Americans; slavery, which is the sole reason that their culture even exists at all.

 

[jnug]

And yet the big majority of blacks have indeed made those good choices. And are now middle class.

So it’s reasoanble to assume it can be done if localized culture changes.

There is no wasp resistance.

Unfortunately there is WASP Resistance in the form of White Supremacy which if you deny will likely get you laughed off your own thread. This is not so much because of what American Blacks might gain but because of what WASP's think they are losing which is entirely on them.

As for National Review it was founded in 1955 by a racist. I doubt they have worked their way out of the Dark Ages of American apartheid all that much in a mere 65 years. After all American Racism is some 400 years old or more and is actually the foundation for most of what the world thinks of as racism. Skin color is a fact. Race is a construct. There were no "black's" in Africa until the construct of race. They were just people. There were no Whites in Europe and America until the construct of race. They were just people. Why do you think the Nazi's decided to study racism in America in order to implement their race based caste system?

 

[Simpletruther]

Unfortunately there is WASP Resistance in the form of White Supremacy which if you deny will likely get you laughed off your own thread. This is not so much because of what American Blacks might gain but because of what WASP's think they are losing which is entirely on them.

WS exists only in the far fringes. Give me examples of wasps resisting blacks.

As for National Review it was founded in 1955 by a racist. I doubt they have worked their way out of the Dark Ages of American apartheid all that much in a mere 65 years. After all American Racism is some 400 years old or more and is actually the foundation for most of what the world thinks of as racism. Skin color is a fact. Race is a construct. There were no "black's" in Africa until the construct of race. They were just people. There were no Whites in Europe and America until the construct of race. They were just people. Why do you think the Nazi's decided to study racism in America in order to implement their race based caste system?

Democrat party was founded by slave loving racists. I never bring that up like some conservatives do because I think it is a silly argument. You will never find me using that. Times change. NR is zero racist, except by todays fsr leftist version of the word where everybody is racist.

 

[Simpletruther]

That's not true at all. Expanded welfare for single parents came about as a response to the proliferation of single parent families. Not the other way around.

Frankly it's laughable that you talk about "enduring cultural legacies" while refusing to address the single biggest cultural legacy of Black Americans; slavery, which is the sole reason that their culture even exists at all.

Address it how? Why is then racist legacy not effecting the vast majority of blacks ability to advance? most blacks have advanced and are middle class and comfortable. the poverty problems exist in localized culture.

 

[jnug]

WS exists only in the far fringes. Give me examples of wasps resisting blacks.



Democrat party was founded by slave loving racists. I never bring that up like some conservatives do because I think it is a silly argument. You will never find me using that. Times change. NR is zero racist, except by todays fsr leftist version of the word where everybody is racist.

As for NR not being racist, you just linked to a racist article and you don't even know it.

Christ, you have a white supremacist in the WH being supported by an entire major political party. That is not "the fringes" where I come from.

 

[Acadia]

Why Marriage Matters: It Reduces Poverty Risk | National Review

From the article:

For instance, only 9 percent of black Millennials who have followed the three steps of the sequence, or who are on track with the sequence (which means they have at least a high-school degree and worked full time in their twenties, but have not yet married or had children) are poor, compared with a 37 percent rate of poverty for blacks who have skipped one or two steps. Likewise, only 9 percent of young men and women from lower-income families who follow the sequence are poor in their late twenties and early thirties; by comparison, 31 percent of their peers from low-income families who missed one or two steps are now poor.


This a gripe I have with progressives. They attack the minor issues, and ignore the major ones, even discourage sometiens the very things that can lead to success, especially on marriage and children.


Just look at those numbers, 9% poverty rate versus 37%, lifestyle choices matter....a lot.

Lifestyle and culture dictate class, not skin color.
Keep posting these truths.

 

[Acadia]

This topic is particularly relevant to blacks as the single parenthood numbers are much higher, and a big factor or what is driving poverty, and all the problems that come with it.

Destroying the black man's place in the family and home has been decimating to the black community. Democrats drove them out and it has led to generational poverty, poor health outcomes, violence, addiction etc.
Black men belong in the home, supporting their families. Not on the streets collecting baby mamas.

 

[Simpletruther]

That's not true at all. Expanded welfare for single parents came about as a response to the proliferation of single parent families. Not the other way around.

Frankly it's laughable that you talk about "enduring cultural legacies" while refusing to address the single biggest cultural legacy of Black Americans; slavery, which is the sole reason that their culture even exists at all.

The Effect of Welfare on Marriage and Fertility - Welfare, The Family, And Reproductive Behavior - NCBI Bookshelf


This paper says there is a general consensus among social scientists that welfare had a negative effect on marriage and a positive fertility rates (more births)

 

[2distracted]

Why Marriage Matters: It Reduces Poverty Risk | National Review

From the article:

For instance, only 9 percent of black Millennials who have followed the three steps of the sequence, or who are on track with the sequence (which means they have at least a high-school degree and worked full time in their twenties, but have not yet married or had children) are poor, compared with a 37 percent rate of poverty for blacks who have skipped one or two steps. Likewise, only 9 percent of young men and women from lower-income families who follow the sequence are poor in their late twenties and early thirties; by comparison, 31 percent of their peers from low-income families who missed one or two steps are now poor.


This a gripe I have with progressives. They attack the minor issues, and ignore the major ones, even discourage sometiens the very things that can lead to success, especially on marriage and children.


Just look at those numbers, 9% poverty rate versus 37%, lifestyle choices matter....a lot.

I know stories of people who were raised by selfish, negligent parents
.became somewhat the same..

I agree that generally speaking it is better to do as u put forth here.. but I add that very few people should have children..very few can do a good job raising the complex creatures called children

 

[Simpletruther]

As for NR not being racist, you just linked to a racist article and you don't even know it.

Christ, you have a white supremacist in the WH being supported by an entire major political party. That is not "the fringes" where I come from.

What is racist about the article? Could it be thst you have a distorted view of what racist is?

Why is it racist, please explain.

 

[Middle_Ground]

I think what counts is what is influencing them Right now. And influence is everywhere, a little bit in every direction. And when you grow up with single parent being the norm and nobody is encouraging you differently, it’s much more likely to happen.

Just like when all your friends hate cops, you are likely to hate cops. And if you are taught real men don’t follow cops orders, you are much more likely to resist, etc etc.

What about walking home from football practice with your friends, helmet, pads, etc and 2 young police officers pull over jump out of there cars and put guns in your face. Your on the ground cops walk by kick you hold you on the ground until another police car pulls up and you hear someone screech. Those kids are black, why are you holding them at gunpoint?
Car screeches off cops say get the **** up and go home.
What would be your opinion of police officers then? Does someone have to tell you to be afraid or hate cops?

All of the black people I know that have generational poverty and are having a hard time breaking is for 1 or 2 reasons drug addiction is treated as a crime not a disease, so family's are destroyed instead of helped. Black males are more likely to become felons before they reach drinking age and are blocked from education, better jobs etc. So again families destroyed.
But I'm not getting into statistical arguements most of my opinions are formed by personal, family, friends experiences.

 

[jnug]

What is racist about the article? Could it be thst you have a distorted view of what racist is?

Why is it racist, please explain.

The author is using an extremely disturbing premise for his piece that is simply a racist meme that determines that black families and Black Americans in general make their own bed due to this "lifestyle" nonsense when in fact American Blacks have not had more than 40-50 years to recover from 400 years of chattel slavery and 100 of combined Jim Crow and outright apartheid. That meme has been around since I was a kid and is at least as old as NR itself. So ya' its a racist article appearing in a periodical edition written 65 years after its racist founder's first edition.

Chattel Slavery blew black families apart because the master owned any offspring outright. He did not have to purchase them. However he could sell any one of them at any time, the father, separately, the mother separately each of the kids separately and often did. So after 400 years of that and another 100 or so years of WASP's trying to convince Black Americans that nothing had really changed, you and the author snap your fingers and decide they have made their own bed. HOW NICE OF YOU.

I will tell you who has made his own problems. WE HAVE. Too many White Americans that have not made the most of being born into the richest country in the world and at the top of the totem. Poor us.....pity party, pity party. Now some of us are afraid that "others" are joining us and the top of the totem may be getting crowded.....GUTLESS.