Life in the womb as a social construction (1 Viewer)

[j brown's body]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

 

[Rickeroo]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

You have a point here. Basically, the developmental stage of the fetus is arbitrarily determined at the state level as to whether it's disposable.

This would be akin to different states interpreting whiteness differently. How white would one have to be in order to be complicit in white supremacy? Nevada might say that a person needs to be held racially culpable at 80% white heritage, while another state may only require 70%.

Both scenarios are indicative of federal intervention, since it could be argued that a fetus's unworthiness for life doesn't change between states, nor does a white's culpability in a racist structure.

 

[AGENT J]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

Yep it exposes what a worthless and made up argument it is as any justifiable means to violate women's rights and treat them as lessers.

This is why typically these laws dont survive, dont even make it to fully pass and the fvst majority of the first world countries have prochoice laws

most of the laws against it are based on fantasy and feelings and not reality, facts and rights

 

[choiceone]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

This is why Roe v Wade is good.

 

[minnie616]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

Please read what the United Nations says about the Texas Law:

United States: UN experts denounce further attacks against right to safe abortion and Supreme Court complicity


GENEVA (14 September 2021) – UN human rights experts* today denounced a recently enacted law that effectively bans abortion as early as six weeks of pregnancy and includes an unprecedented provision that encourages private individuals to file lawsuits against those involved in abortion procedures.
"This law is alarming. It bans abortion before many women even know they are pregnant" the experts said. The law contains no exception for pregnancies that result from rape or incest, or for foetal health conditions that are incompatible with sustained life after birth. The only exception is for a medical emergency.
Texas State Senate Bill 8 (S.B. 8), which was signed by Texas Governor on 19 May and entered into force on 1 September 2021, will cause severe harm to pregnant women in Texas who seek abortion considering that approximately 90% of women who obtain abortions in Texas are at least six weeks pregnant. "Nearly all abortions are now prohibited in a state where abortion was already extremely difficult to access" the experts said.
About 96% of Texas counties lack a clinic that provides abortion care and patients face countless barriers to terminate a pregnancy. This recent law is the latest in a series of numerous attempts by the Texas state legislature to severely restrict access to safe and legal abortion. It epitomizes a series of retrogressions in the United States on the right to abortion notwithstanding constitutional recognition of that right.

This year alone state legislatures in the United States have enacted a historic number of highly restrictive abortion laws and bans on abortion services, including those that impose criminal penalties on pregnant women and abortion providers.

Read more :

https://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=27457&LangID=E

 

[Lursa]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

Either it's right or it's wrong, but currently, RvW prevents all states from banning it completely.

FL is just sadistic, it doesnt make exceptions for rape or incest.

But the hypocrisy is reflected in that too, since if it's the same as a born person, how can you kill it?

Someone has to figure out if killing the unborn is "wrong," period. Nothing in the Const even implies it's wrong...it specifies 'born or naturalized.' It recognizes no rights or legal status for the unborn.

So who...what...authority says that killing the unborn is wrong? And if the Const isnt interpreted in a manner that says it is...then why should there be laws against it? I'm not saying it's 'good' to have abortions, no one 'likes' abortion. But the issue needs to be clarified because the Constitution DOES clearly and in several ways protect women's rights.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

Actually under the Texas law, the embryo can't be more than 4-5 weeks old. It is 6 weeks from the first day of her last period, not the day a zygote was conceived. The embryo can be one month old and it is already too late.

Missouri's trigger law (which of course was blocked in court) had a 15-week deadline. Its demographics are nothing like Florida's melting pot: mostly white money makers.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Yep it exposes what a worthless and made up argument it is as any justifiable means to violate women's rights and treat them as lessers.

This is why typically these laws dont survive, dont even make it to fully pass and the vast majority of the first world countries have pro-choice laws

Most of the laws against it are based on fantasy and feelings and not reality, facts and rights

There are many reasons abortion laws can't survive court challenges. The first five are in the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Integrityrespec]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

And here lies the problem. When life begins? Now if the court had ruled properly in Roe V Wade, they would have gone with the 10th amendment and states right to determine law in their state.

Amendment X​

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

 

[AGENT J]

And here lies the problem. When life begins? Now if the court had ruled properly in Roe V Wade, they would have gone with the 10th amendment and states right to determine law in their state.

Amendment X​

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

False since the issue is women's rights and its the federal government's job to protect those rights
try agaain

 

[Noodlegawd]

The new Texas law bans abortion after about 6 weeks. The new Florida law bans it after 15 weeks. Life can't begin earlier in one state than another, can it?

It reminds me of the old race laws that defined who was black differently by state.

So it seems, like race, life in the womb is a social construction. Pick a time you think life begins. Any old time will do. Rationales for it is a plus.

Amazing. Different places have different laws. Who'dathunkit?

 

[Lursa]

And here lies the problem. When life begins? Now if the court had ruled properly in Roe V Wade, they would have gone with the 10th amendment and states right to determine law in their state.

Amendment X​

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

The "states" are qualified to decide when life begins? That's biology. It's science, it's objective, and that answer doesnt change.

Now since you focused on the COnstitution, properly, the Const specifies it only considers born and naturalize people to have rights....first sentence of the 14th A.

No one who graduated from 5th grade doesnt understand the unborn are alive and Homo sapiens.

Now please tell us, where or who says the unborn have a right to life? Science doesnt recognize any rights for any animals, including humans. Do you still want to stick with biology?

 

[Noodlegawd]

the Const specifies it only considers born and naturalize people to have rights....first sentence of the 14th A.

That's not what it says. Not even close. It doesn't say "only" anything.

 

[Lursa]

That's not what it says. Not even close. It doesn't say "only" anything.

It's very clear, very specific. Those are the ONLY 2 named: born and naturalized citizen.

Did you have a point? Are you asserting it includes the unborn? If so, I'm sure there are judicial decisions you can provide supporting that.

 

[Noodlegawd]

It's very clear, very specific. Those are the ONLY 2 named: born and naturalized citizen.

Did you have a point? Are you asserting it includes the unborn? If so, I'm sure there are judicial decisions you can provide supporting that.

The Constitution doesn't purport to define who or what has rights and who or what does not, so your question is totally beside the point.

If the Constitution said that ducks are birds, would that mean that only ducks are birds?

 

[Lursa]

The Constitution doesn't purport to define who or what has rights and who or what does not, so your question is totally beside the point.

If the Constitution said that ducks are birds, would that mean that only ducks are birds?

The Const. protects people's rights and in the 14th it's very clear 'who's' included in that protection. If you disagree, please, as asked, source it.

 

[Noodlegawd]

The Const. protects people's rights and in the 14th it's very clear 'who's' included in that protection. If you disagree, please, as asked, source it.

1. Just actually read the sentence again.
2. The US Constitution is not the only source of rights for people in this country.

 

[Lursa]

1. Just actually read the sentence again.
2. The US Constitution is not the only source of rights for people in this country.

That's nice.