Licensing - A good argument for

[vegas giants]

True it mentions arms in general, so the 2A doesn't apply only to guns but also to other weapons such as swords, knives, clubs, ect.

Bombs, cannon, biological arms, nuclear arms....etc

 

[ataraxia]

True it mentions arms in general, so the 2A doesn't apply only to guns but also to other weapons such as swords, knives, clubs, ect.

…machine guns, grenades, RPGLs, ICBMs, nuclear arms, etc…

Guns rights activists are the ones who like to pretend the advances in weapon technology since the 18 century have not been a game changer. So we are left with this funny but dangerous situation where somehow civilians owning tanks with live ammo is ridiculous but having assault weapons that can kill or maim hundreds of people in short order is somehow very reasonable.

 

[ataraxia]

So you think guns are the same as nuclear arms?

So you think machine guns are the same thing as muskets?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Guns rights activists are the ones who like to pretend the advances in weapon technology since the 18 century have not been a game changer.

Of course its a game changer, and that's why civilians should have access to modern weapons, an army of civilians with 18th century weapons is not going to be able to beat a government that's using 21st century weapons.

So we are left with this funny but dangerous situation where somehow civilians owning tanks with live ammo is ridiculous but having assault weapons that can kill or maim hundreds of people in short order is somehow very reasonable.

So do you trust the government with such weapons? Restricting citizens to 18th century weapons is all fine and dandy, if you also restrict the government to 18th century weapons.

BTW you can get tanks with live ammo.

 

[ataraxia]

Of course its a game changer, and that's why civilians should have access to modern weapons, an army of civilians with 18th century weapons is not going to be able to beat a government that's using 21st century weapons.

I would be OK with that if the screening, training, boot camp, accountability, discipline, and obedience to authority were the same.

 

[TurtleDude]

So why demand more training of the police but not the civilians? Obviously you are suggesting it is making it worse than if you just bring in random people off the street into the department, with no background screening and no training, and give them a high-powered rifle, right?

police are given all sorts of powers other civilians don't have. the fact is, private citizens who own firearms are safer with them than the police.

 

[TurtleDude]

I would be OK with that if the screening, training, boot camp, accountability, discipline, and obedience to authority were the same.

and that would mean private citizens can carry in the courts, arrest others, etc?

 

[ataraxia]

BTW you can get tanks with live ammo.

Those tyrannical evil libs already have you beat to the punch on that slippery slope. Not much longer before Obama personally shows up at your door to confiscate your grandpa’s heirloom shotgun.

“ Civilians cannot own a tank with operational guns or explosives unless they have a Federal Destructive Device permit or license. ... The cannons and machine guns on tanks are considered destructive devices.”

Can You Buy a Tank? - Aero Corner

The first tanks used in battle appeared during World War I. In the following decades, militaries have developed more sophisticated tanks, but what happens to the decommissioned tanks? A wide range of surplus military items are available to the public, which leads to the question, can civilians...

aerocorner.com

 

[ataraxia]

and that would mean private citizens can carry in the courts, arrest others, etc?

Sure. But who would they report to, be accountable to, or take orders from?

 

[DebateChallenge]

I would be OK with that if the screening, training, boot camp, accountability, discipline, and obedience to authority were the same.

So are you OK with police having access to guns? They don't go through boot camp or all that other stuff that soldiers go through and their mandatory firearms training is quite marginal. I would say I've got more firearms training than most police officers.

 

[DebateChallenge]

So you think machine guns are the same thing as muskets?

There is a much bigger difference between a nuclear bomb and any kind of modern gun than there is between a machine gun and a musket.

 

[RF667799]

I would be OK with that if the screening, training, boot camp, accountability, discipline, and obedience to authority were the same.

Obedience to authority likely your favorite part.

The Hell happened to the left?

 

[ataraxia]

So are you OK with police having access to guns? They don't go through boot camp or all that other stuff that soldiers go through and their mandatory firearms training is quite marginal. I would say I've got more firearms training than most police officers.

Sure. There is some baseline screening, accountability, rules they have to follow, and chain of command. Civilians have none of that.

You have to admit, there are some colorful characters out there when you’re dealing with the public. Not everyone is motivated to be a proud, brave American patriot.

Like I asked earlier, what potentially hazardous equipment do you know on which there are no regulations which infringe on their free use by every Joe Shmoe on the street, with the result that we are all safer? It just doesn’t make any sense, man.

 

[ataraxia]

There is a much bigger difference between a nuclear bomb and any kind of modern gun than there is between a machine gun and a musket.

Sure- but then can we agree that it’s just a matter of degrees, and not just “the right to arms shall not be infringed. Period.”?

 

[ataraxia]

Obedience to authority likely your favorite part.

The Hell happened to the left?

I think the freedom you are looking is called the freedom of the jungle. The biggest guy, or at least the one with the biggest gun, wins.

I thought it was the right who was all about “law and order”. What happened to the right?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Sure. There is some baseline screening, accountability, rules they have to follow, and chain of command. Civilians have none of that.

Civilians have to follow rules too, they're called laws. And when civilians get guns they're held accountable for what they do with them, just like police.

Like I asked earlier, what potentially hazardous equipment do you know on which there are no regulations which infringe on their free use by every Joe Shmoe on the street, with the result that we are all safer? It just doesn’t make any sense, man.

Lawnmowers, power tools, over the counter medicines, poisons of all sorts, flammable materials, the list goes on and on.

 

[Glitch]

Obedience to authority likely your favorite part.

The Hell happened to the left?

Leftist freaks desire more than anything to be government slaves. That mental illness is what gives us socialism, communism, and ultimately fascism. Leftists filth desire to be government slaves so badly, they intentionally slaughtered more than 100 million people in the last century in order to achieve that sick and twisted goal.

 

[DebateChallenge]

I think the freedom you are looking is called the freedom of the jungle. The biggest guy, or at least the one with the biggest gun, wins.

Thats how it is now, the biggest guy with the biggest gun wins, or to put it more accurately, the biggest group of guys with the most guns wins.

 

[RF667799]

Sure. There is some baseline screening, accountability, rules they have to follow, and chain of command. Civilians have none of that.

You have to admit, there are some colorful characters out there when you’re dealing with the public. Not everyone is motivated to be a proud, brave American patriot.

Like I asked earlier, what potentially hazardous equipment do you know on which there are no regulations which infringe on their free use by every Joe Shmoe on the street, with the result that we are all safer? It just doesn’t make any sense, man.

Chainsaws, sythes, machetes, backhoes, gasoline, kerosine, motor vehicles of every sort to include tracked vehicles....

Any of those can be readily acquired by virtually anyone and used for mayhem limited only by one's imagination.

Do you think we should have laws forbidding their use for mayhem?

 

[ataraxia]

Civilians have to follow rules too, they're called laws. And when civilians get guns they're held accountable for what they do with them, just like police.

Lawnmowers, power tools, over the counter medicines, poisons of all sorts, flammable materials, the list goes on and on.

All of them are covered by one single rule: don’t kill or hurt anyone.

Someone wants a drivers license and is half-blind? Demented? Off their seizure meds? Long history of DUI? Doesn’t matter. Leave them free and the responsibility up to them. We already have laws against running people over. Enforce those first. We are not doing a good enough job enforcing that. Once you get it right, then come back and talk to us about restricting the freedoms of patriotic Americans to make choices for themselves.

 

[RF667799]

I think the freedom you are looking is called the freedom of the jungle. The biggest guy, or at least the one with the biggest gun, wins.

I thought it was the right who was all about “law and order”. What happened to the right?

Is there someone here on the right arguing in opposition to law and order?

Christ, can't you at least pay lip service to questioning authority instead of bleating about orders must be obeyed at all costs?

 

[ataraxia]

Chainsaws, sythes, machetes, backhoes, gasoline, kerosine, motor vehicles of every sort to include tracked vehicles....

Any of those can be readily acquired by virtually anyone and used for mayhem limited only by one's imagination.

Do you think we should have laws forbidding their use for mayhem?

So then nuclear ordnances on sale at Walmart should be fine. After all, nukes don’t kill people, people kill people, right? Take away nukes, and they’ll figure out a way to the same thing with nail clippers or something. Why infringe on the right to nuclear arms?

 

[RF667799]

Leftist freaks desire more than anything to be government slaves. That mental illness is what gives us socialism, communism, and ultimately fascism. Leftists filth desire to be government slaves so badly, they intentionally slaughtered more than 100 million people in the last century in order to achieve that sick and twisted goal.

Yeah...there's authoritarian statists on the right too.

 

[RF667799]

So then nuclear ordnances on sale at Walmart should be fine. After all, nukes don’t kill people, people kill people, right? Take away nukes, and they’ll figure out a way to the same thing with nail clippers or something. Why infringe on the right to nuclear arms?

Once again, you deflect rather than address.

 

[ataraxia]

Is there someone here on the right arguing in opposition to law and order?

I am sorry, did I miss something about our entire discussion topic? I thought you were talking about opposing gun laws most Americans want.

Poll: Most Americans Want To See Congress Pass Gun Restrictions

Democrats and Republicans agree that Congress should tighten gun laws by passing universal background checks and red flag laws and require gun licenses as well as increase funding for mental health.

www.npr.org