Let's figure out how we will blame Obama

[Port & Starboard]

mmmm, your post just doesn't make any sense. You made a claim that "2-3 million construction and factory workers losing full time work" due to Obamacare and you refused to back it up. I post the part time employment figures that not only show part time work declining, it looks like it declined faster when the coverage provisions of Obamacare kicked in. Here it is again, special for you. Tell me where you think "2-3 million construction and factory workers (lost) full time work". And RN, this is a debate forum, not a chatroom.

View attachment 67211445

What is 5% of 154 million Vern?

I provided the links, so please go away Vern.

You are worse than a sinus infection.

 

[Port & Starboard]

As much as you'd like to make this personal and about me (and I'm flattered, by the way), it isn't. Fact is, you can provide a superior product or service and pay your employees a living wage. Some choose not to do that. I'll let you figure out what the reason is.

Ahhhh......I think you made it personal in your last reply?

Waaaah! Look, if you can't run a business and pay your employees a living wage, then you are probably a business that does not do very well because you produce an inferior product or service.

I'll ask you again, what have you built, ran, and levered your own money with?

 

[Incisor]

Ahhhh......I think you made it personal in your last reply?

I was speaking rhetorically. Apologies because I know that doesn't always come through on the internet. I didn't mean you, personally. I was referring to the general, universal "you" in a rhetorical sense.

I'll ask you again, what have you built, ran, and levered your own money with?

Look dude, I don't want to get into personal stuff here so let's not go there. It wouldn't be fair to you, and I would prefer to just keep this debate on the arguments and not the people making them.

 

[Moderate Right]

I did not refuse anything that is your lie to mask your inability to support your assertion. Come back when you have the integrity to back up your claim and debate with honesty.

If you didn't refuse then please list all of the bad points to universal healthcare, unless of course you refuse to do it.

 

[Port & Starboard]

I was speaking rhetorically. Apologies because I know that doesn't always come through on the internet. I didn't mean you, personally. I was referring to the general, universal "you" in a rhetorical sense.




Look dude, I don't want to get into personal stuff here so let's not go there. It wouldn't be fair to you, and I would prefer to just keep this debate on the arguments and not the people making them.

You don't get to make assertions and walk away from them nilly willy. But for the sake of civility? Fine with me.

 

[Incisor]

You don't get to make assertions and walk away from them nilly willy. But for the sake of civility? Fine with me.

What assertion did I make that I walked away from?

 

[Port & Starboard]

What assertion did I make that I walked away from?

That I don't know how to run my own business? Inferior work? Inferior product?

C'mon .......it was a BS assertion.

If you knew me in person, you would know that I turn down more work than I can accept. I would say that it's a nice position to be in, but I had to earn a lot of trust from the deep pocket folks to get myself there.

But at the same time, I am pretty thick skinned and love humor.

 

[Incisor]

That I don't know how to run my own business? Inferior work? Inferior product?

Do you not read posts, or what? I said very plainly that I was speaking rhetorically. You took personal offense to what was a rhetorical question because you're so defensive. That defensiveness usually comes from insecurity. In this case, insecurity in your argument. If you (now I'm speaking rhetorically) produce inferior product, chances are you're (still rhetorical) going to struggle, in which case how much you (rhetorical, again) pay your (rhetorical, again) workers is moot because you (rhetorical for the last time in this sentence) failed as a business owner. It is possible in this economy to produce superior products and pay workers a living wage. It's not a zero-sum game. It's bold, defensive statements like yours (now I'm speaking to you personally) that tend to belie an ignorance of the subject. Or you're just outright lying about yourself, which Conservatives are known to do on message boards. You wouldn't believe me if I told you I was Tom Brady, so why should I believe you when you claim anything about yourself?

If you knew me in person, you would know that I turn down more work than I can accept. I would say that it's a nice position to be in, but I had to earn a lot of trust from the deep pocket folks to get myself there.

I personally think you're full of it.

 

[Vern]

What is 5% of 154 million Vern?
I provided the links, so please go away Vern.
You are worse than a sinus infection.

ah, a true conservative post: a deflecting question, repeated dishonest claim, insult vern. And double spaced of course. RN, you posted a false claim. You dishonestly claimed you backed up the false claim. I've posted actual data that proves you've posted a false claim and yet you still deny it. RN, your cowardly and dishonest posts would be an embarrassment at a chat room. When you grow up and want to have an honest and intelligent conversation, take a look at the data that proves you're being dishonest and tell us what you see.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Do you not read posts, or what? I said very plainly that I was speaking rhetorically. You took personal offense to what was a rhetorical question because you're so defensive. That defensiveness usually comes from insecurity. In this case, insecurity in your argument. If you (now I'm speaking rhetorically) produce inferior product, chances are you're (still rhetorical) going to struggle, in which case how much you (rhetorical, again) pay your (rhetorical, again) workers is moot because you (rhetorical for the last time in this sentence) failed as a business owner. It is possible in this economy to produce superior products and pay workers a living wage. It's not a zero-sum game. It's bold, defensive statements like yours (now I'm speaking to you personally) that tend to belie an ignorance of the subject. Or you're just outright lying about yourself, which Conservatives are known to do on message boards. You wouldn't believe me if I told you I was Tom Brady, so why should I believe you when you claim anything about yourself?



I personally think you're full of it.

That is because you can't see past your own nose, and you don't really debate.

You enjoy nipping without get nipped back.

I asked you what you have built, ran, and levered your own money on, and you refused to answer my question.


So, I guess I could assume that you are hidden away in mommies basement waiting on supper?

I would rather give people the benefit of the doubt, unlike yourself.

 

[Moderate Right]

That is because you can't see past your own nose, and you don't really debate.

You enjoy nipping without get nipped back.

I asked you what you have built, ran, and levered your own money on, and you refused to answer my question.


So, I guess I could assume that you are hidden away in mommies basement waiting on supper?

I would rather give people the benefit of the doubt, unlike yourself.

Liberals think they know how to run a business by reading biased liberal propaganda.

 

[Port & Starboard]

ah, a true conservative post: a deflecting question, repeated dishonest claim, insult vern. And double spaced of course. RN, you posted a false claim. You dishonestly claimed you backed up the false claim. I've posted actual data that proves you've posted a false claim and yet you still deny it. RN, your cowardly and dishonest posts would be an embarrassment at a chat room. When you grow up and want to have an honest and intelligent conversation, take a look at the data that proves you're being dishonest and tell us what you see.

View attachment 67211453

Vern, I never deflected.

You say that to every single person that you conduct your one way debates with.

In every debate that you take part in, we all get to see your accusations of whining, running, deflection cowards, and whatever else you toss out there. You really don't need me to cut and paste a few hundred examples to prove my point, do you?

But, thanx for adding me to your signature old friend.

We are done here.

 

[Vern]

Vern, I never deflected.

okay RN, if you want to pretend "What is 5% of 154 million Vern?" isn't a deflecting question, then explain the relevance to your "2-3 million construction and factory workers (lost) full time work" claim. This should be interesting unless you cowardly cut and run from it. Speaking of which.....

You say that to every single person that you conduct your one way debates with.

In every debate that you take part in, we all get to see your accusations of whining, running, deflection cowards, and whatever else you toss out there. You really don't need me to cut and paste a few hundred examples to prove my point, do you?

I post that when conservatives deflect whine and cut and run. Take your question for example. I eagerly await your explanation of how it was relevant. Anyhoo, lets review, you made this claim "2-3 million construction and factory workers (lost) full time work". You posted a scattershot of links and dishonestly claimed it proved your point. Now besides the fact that I've posted a graph of part time employment that disproved your claim, one of your own links disproved your claim. But you wouldn't know that because like all conservatives you don't read what you post. You were just trying to make it look like you were proving your point.

Again RN, this is not a chat room. When you grow up and want to have an honest and intelligent conversation, take a look at the data that proves you're being dishonest and tell us what you see.

 

[prometeus]

If you didn't refuse then please list all of the bad points to universal healthcare, unless of course you refuse to do it.

Why don't you support what you asserted? Why do YOU refuse to do what is the norm in an intelligent and honest debate? Why the hypocrisy?

Let me remind you what you said: Post #193 "While true, you assume that universal health care in other countries is a good thing... They suck in far too many ways."
"Most people in the US have health insurance through their employers, which is far superior to the universal health care in other countries.

So, do yo have what it takes? Can you support ANY of those assertions you made? Can you stop the hypocrisy and do what you ask of me?

 

[Greenbeard]

Right now it looks like they are going to vote to repeal it ASAP but that the repeal itself will take place at a future date when they have a replacement plan ready.

What exactly have they been doing this past decade? Opposing the ACA has been their signature (perhaps their only) issue and a lifetime later they still don't have an alternative to present?

No wonder their grand plan is to say they repealed it and leave it in place.

 

[Moderate Right]

Why don't you support what you asserted? Why do YOU refuse to do what is the norm in an intelligent and honest debate? Why the hypocrisy?

Let me remind you what you said: Post #193 "While true, you assume that universal health care in other countries is a good thing... They suck in far too many ways."
"Most people in the US have health insurance through their employers, which is far superior to the universal health care in other countries.

So, do yo have what it takes? Can you support ANY of those assertions you made? Can you stop the hypocrisy and do what you ask of me?

You said you already know the arguments so why should I waste my time? You already dismiss those arguments and find no bad points to universal health care at all. That leaves nothing to debate.

 

[Moderate Right]

What exactly have they been doing this past decade? Opposing the ACA has been their signature (perhaps their only) issue and a lifetime later they still don't have an alternative to present?

No wonder their grand plan is to say they repealed it and leave it in place.

Then why are you guys so worried if they are going to repeal it and leave it in place? Please make up your mind.

 

[Greenbeard]

Then why are you guys so worried if they are going to repeal it and leave it in place? Please make up your mind.

Because repealing it while leaving it in place is going to destroy the nation's insurance markets. There are real consequences to signaling you're going to smash apart a fifth the economy with no idea what comes next.

 

[Moderate Right]

Because repealing it while leaving it in place is going to destroy the nation's insurance markets. There are real consequences to signaling you're going to smash apart a fifth the economy with no idea what comes next.

But you said they were going to leave it in place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, please make up your mind.

 

[Greenbeard]

But you said they were going to leave it in place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, please make up your mind.

What is confusing you here?

 

[Moderate Right]

What is confusing you here?

You are the one who is confused. It is you who said they were going to repeal it and leave it in place. Therefore, if it is going to be left in place you have nothing to worry about because it really won't be repealed if it is left in place. Now, is it going to be left in place or not? Please make up your mind.

 

[Greenbeard]

You are the one who is confused. It is you who said they were going to repeal it and leave it in place. Therefore, if it is going to be left in place you have nothing to worry about because it really won't be repealed if it is left in place. Now, is it going to be left in place or not? Please make up your mind.

Let me explain what's going to happen for you. The GOP will "repeal" the ACA, leaving it in place for some amount of time--2 years, 3 years, 4 years. Extending the provisions of the ACA at the end of that window will become the new doc fix, as Congress is continually called on to push off its own directive, even as it pretends it doesn't want to.

Problem is, with the doc fix it didn't really matter, the docs weren't going anywhere. Selling insurance in the individual market, on the other hand if entirely voluntary. An insurer can just as easily service employer accounts for a fee with no risk. They can make money in the Medicaid or Medicare spaces. It makes very little sense to participate in a market if Congress is going to play chicken with the financial dynamics of it every year or two.

It doesn't matter if the ACA is on the books if there's no insurance left to buy in the individual market. The GOP can just as easily destroy the nation's insurance markets without actually going through with repeal. That's when the lack of a real alternative is really going to become a problem for them.

 

[prometeus]

You said you already know the arguments so why should I waste my time?

Why the lie? Where did I say that?

You already dismiss those arguments and find no bad points to universal health care at all.

Yet another lie from you.

That leaves nothing to debate.

Only because you are incapable of supporting your assertions.

 

[Moderate Right]

Why the lie? Where did I say that?

Yet another lie from you.

Only because you are incapable of supporting your assertions.

Post #234 I said "The majority of my answers are common knowledge and available in many places." and you replied in post #235 "While that is true, those answers do not support your assertions." What is the point of me mentioning them if you already know them and have dismissed them?

After asking you many times you still have not listed the bad aspects of universal healthcare. Not one. Not once. Please quote the post where you have done so.

If you already know the arguments and you have already dismissed them and you refuse to acknowledge any bad aspects to universal healthcare, what is the point of debating it? You have already formed your opinion and you are not going to change it.

 

[prometeus]

Post #234 I said "The majority of my answers are common knowledge and available in many places." and you replied in post #235 "While that is true, those answers do not support your assertions." What is the point of me mentioning them if you already know them and have dismissed them?

After asking you many times you still have not listed the bad aspects of universal healthcare. Not one. Not once. Please quote the post where you have done so.

If you already know the arguments and you have already dismissed them and you refuse to acknowledge any bad aspects to universal healthcare, what is the point of debating it? You have already formed your opinion and you are not going to change it.

You are still dodging because you are unable to support your assertion. Typical dishonesty from you.