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Let's Ban Pit Bulls

Vox said:
I trained golden retrievers, Labrador retrievers and Chesapeake Bay retrievers for many years.

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Chesapeake are notoriously aggressive dogs:

"They aren't the best watchdogs, but Chesapeakes are naturally distrustful of strangers. It is important that socialization take place early and often, so that the dog learns the difference between a welcome visitor and and unwelcome visitor. If left unchecked, this distrustfulness can possibly turn into aggression."
Chesapeake Bay Retriever | Temperament & Personality


Meanwhile, Pitbulls, love humans and are more likely to lick the hand of the man robbing you, than to bite.



Man Facing Charges after Dogs Allegedly Attacked Criglersville T - NBC29 WVIR Charlottesville, VA News, Sports and Weather


The only reason they are not top of the list of dog attacks is due to their rarity.



Chesapeake Bay Retriever Relief & Rescue




"...and he may be described as the "Rottweiler of the retrievers,"



I find your story of training anything, highly suspect.
 
ecofarm said:
Refutation, anyone?

This is not one of my subjects. I'm looking for information, not arguing a position.
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https://www.avma.org/public/Pages/Why-Breed-Specific-Legislation-is-not-the-Answer.aspx

This is from the American Veterinary Medical Association. Vox dismissed them because they didn't support his argument. The reality is that if you can't recognize these as experts...then you don't want facts.

They are they are the organization that provides accreditation for all vet schools in the United States. And they represent about 89,000 people employed as Vets and in the field of Veterinary medicine. They also are responsible for the foremost scholarly journal on Veterinary medicine.

The fact that they are against BSL should be very telling.


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ReverendHellh0und said:
"lower classes"? I probably pay more in taxes, than you make in a year, brah. :lol:
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No, "brah," you don't.

And your use of the word "brah" and your writing skills tag your social status perfectly.

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ReverendHellh0und said:
Absolutely, but it does not mean that the dog will be aggressive.
Pitbulls, were bred NOT to be aggressive with humans,
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But let's look at facts rather than pit bull apologist fantasy.

Myth #3: Human-aggressive pit bulls were "culled"

Historically, it is believed that dogfighters removed human-aggressive pit bulls from the gene pool. "Man biters," as dogmen referred them, were "culled" to prevent dog handlers from suffering vicious bites. However, dogmen themselves and pedigrees show a different story. As far back as 1909, George Armitage shares a story in, "Thirty Years with Fighting Dogs." He describes Caire's Rowdy as not a mere man-biter, but as a "man-eater," the most dangerous biter of all.6

In more modern years, a substantial number of champion (CH), grand champion (GR CH) and register of merit (ROM) fighting dogs carry the title of a man-biter or a man-eater. These pit bulls were championship-breeding stock, whose famed owners never for a moment considered culling the dogs. Some of the most well known dogs include: Adams' GR CH Zebo, Indian Bolio ROM, Garner's CH Chinaman ROM, Gambler's GR CH Virgil and West's CH Spade (man-eater).7

In 1974, after a series of high profile news articles written by Wayne King and published by the New York Times, the image of the ferocious fighting pit bull moved from the shadowy world of dogmen into the mainstream. This period, between 1975 and 1979, is known as the "leakage period" when the breeding of pit bulls drastically increased through gang members and drug dealers, who wanted the "toughest dog" on the block, as well as by pet pit bull breeders.8

While some dogmen of the past may have culled human-aggressive dogs to keep their stock free of man-biters, once the leakage period began, there is no evidence that similar selective pressures were maintained.9 As early as 1980, pit bull attacks begin headlining newspapers, "Another Pit Bull Attack Reported; Boy, 8 Slashed (1980)," as well as reports of pit bull owners trying to bolster the breed's "deteriorating" public image, "Pit Bull Attacks As Owners Fight Image (1980)."
Related articles:
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Pit Bull Myths - Dangerous Dogs - DogsBite.org

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blackjack50 said:
...they are the organization that provides accreditation for all vet schools in the United States. And they represent about 89,000 people employed as Vets and in the field of Veterinary medicine. They also are responsible for the foremost scholarly journal on Veterinary medicine.

The fact that they are against BSL should be very telling.
Click to expand...

But, it's not.

It's predictable. It's a political stance of an ORGANIZATION rather than individuals and it's politically motivated based on the influence of the pit bull lobby.

It's also becoming harder and harder to justify as hundreds of people are maimed and dozens are killed each year by pit bulls.

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blackjack50 said:
More use if a discredited source that has no actual scientific research to back their position.
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They have not only scientific research, but historical FACT to back them.

Myth #3: Human-aggressive pit bulls were "culled"

Historically, it is believed that dogfighters removed human-aggressive pit bulls from the gene pool. "Man biters," as dogmen referred them, were "culled" to prevent dog handlers from suffering vicious bites. However, dogmen themselves and pedigrees show a different story. As far back as 1909, George Armitage shares a story in, "Thirty Years with Fighting Dogs." He describes Caire's Rowdy as not a mere man-biter, but as a "man-eater," the most dangerous biter of all.6

In more modern years, a substantial number of champion (CH), grand champion (GR CH) and register of merit (ROM) fighting dogs carry the title of a man-biter or a man-eater. These pit bulls were championship-breeding stock, whose famed owners never for a moment considered culling the dogs. Some of the most well known dogs include: Adams' GR CH Zebo, Indian Bolio ROM, Garner's CH Chinaman ROM, Gambler's GR CH Virgil and West's CH Spade (man-eater).7

In 1974, after a series of high profile news articles written by Wayne King and published by the New York Times, the image of the ferocious fighting pit bull moved from the shadowy world of dogmen into the mainstream. This period, between 1975 and 1979, is known as the "leakage period" when the breeding of pit bulls drastically increased through gang members and drug dealers, who wanted the "toughest dog" on the block, as well as by pet pit bull breeders.8

While some dogmen of the past may have culled human-aggressive dogs to keep their stock free of man-biters, once the leakage period began, there is no evidence that similar selective pressures were maintained.9 As early as 1980, pit bull attacks begin headlining newspapers, "Another Pit Bull Attack Reported; Boy, 8 Slashed (1980)," as well as reports of pit bull owners trying to bolster the breed's "deteriorating" public image, "Pit Bull Attacks As Owners Fight Image (1980)."
Related articles:
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Pit Bull Myths - Dangerous Dogs - DogsBite.org
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blackjack50 said:
Maybe they were pit bulls or Dalmatians? Lol. Like I said...you obviously don't know the difference.

3e72460da6280c4b71df126cf68c4565.jpg


Let me guess? The above is a pit bull? Lol.
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We need a better look at it, but it does indeed look like a pit bull mix that would probably fit the legal definition of a pit bull.

Better pictures please.

For now, compare it to a Labrador retriever (a breed I trained for years).

2301099110_6e55647a4d_b.webp

See the difference? It's a profound and obvious difference.

One will kill you or your child and one will fetch dead ducks for you.

One must be eliminated and one must be banned.

See how that works?

:2usflag:
 
Review the legal definition of the killer.

A "pit bull," is defined as any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one (1) or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. Dias v. City & County of Denver, 567 F.3d 1169, 1173 (10th Cir. Colo. 2009)
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Vox said:
We need a better look at it, but it does indeed look like a pit bull mix that would probably fit the legal definition of a pit bull.

Better pictures please.

For now, compare it to a Labrador retriever (a breed I trained for years).

View attachment 67216196

See the difference? It's a profound and obvious difference.

One will kill you or your child and one will fetch dead ducks for you.

One must be eliminated and one must be banned.

See how that works?

:2usflag:
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It is an English bulldog and a Labrador mix. Let me guess? Pit bull? Lol.


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Vox said:
They have not only scientific research, but historical FACT to back them.



:2usflag:
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NONE of what you quoted is scientific research. News is not science bud.


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Vox said:
But, it's not.

It's predictable. It's a political stance of an ORGANIZATION rather than individuals and it's politically motivated based on the influence of the pit bull lobby.

It's also becoming harder and harder to justify as hundreds of people are maimed and dozens are killed each year by pit bulls.

:2usflag:
Click to expand...

They have a very clear cut reason for opposing BSL. All you have to do is read their position. But that would require you to actually recognize that they, as veterinarians, have a much more valid opinion on the topic than lawyers, journalists, anti pit bull lobbyists (who you claim are experts), and basically people with no actual education on handling dogs as a profession and scholarly research.

You have no evidence to discredit them other than their opposition to your view.


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blackjack50 said:
It is an English bulldog and a Labrador mix. Let me guess? Pit bull? Lol.
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You're wrong, as usual.

This is why you're wrong.


A "pit bull," is defined as any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one (1) or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. Dias v. City & County of Denver, 567 F.3d 1169, 1173 (10th Cir. Colo. 2009)
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As I said before, we probably need better pictures, but your mongrel looks to conform to sufficient physical traits to qualify as a pit bull according to the law.


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blackjack50 said:
You have no evidence to discredit them other than their opposition to your view.
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The hundreds of maimed and dead babies and the many thousands of beloved pets killed by pit bulls every year discredit anyone who would allow pit bulls to exist.

d799df3b69360a2be284961095c32bd9.webp

Any support for this is heartless and hateful.

:2usflag:
 
Vox said:
We need a better look at it, but it does indeed look like a pit bull mix that would probably fit the legal definition of a pit bull.

Better pictures please.

For now, compare it to a Labrador retriever (a breed I trained for years).

View attachment 67216196

See the difference? It's a profound and obvious difference.

One will kill you or your child and one will fetch dead ducks for you.

One must be eliminated and one must be banned.

See how that works?

:2usflag:
Click to expand...




unless it bites someone then you would call it a pitbull.


I don't believe you have ever trained any dog.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Please stop posting that fraudulent site. it doesn't help your position.
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It's the most respected pitbull information site on the Internet. It harms your position......which is why you'd like me to stop posting it.

Here's more about child fatalities:

2016 Dog Bite Fatality: Pit Bull Rehomed by Humane Society Kills Newborn Baby - DogsBite.org

Alexandra Semyonova
It’s quite sad that yet another killing of yet another child by a pit bull type is being diverted to a discussion of exactly which category of pit bull type dog is involved, and to a discussion of 911 dispatch response time.
The real problem here is not the 911 dispatch response time. It is not exactly which of the various pit bull type dogs killed this infant. It is not about figuring exactly what triggered the pit bull mix to execute its inherent motor pattern. Neither is this latest infant death about children and ‘any dog’, which will be the next damage control response pit bull advocacy predictably comes up with. The tragedy of this child’s death is about exposing a newborn baby to the type of dog that has been responsible for more child killings than all other breeds and types of dogs combined since the 1980s. A type of dog whose genetically determined, inherent response to startle (no matter what kind), in fact to any strong stimulus, is to attack the head and neck, grip, hold, shake, and not let go.
Yes, many types of dogs have bitten children, but we are not talking about a bite here. We’re talking about an instant killing, not preceded by any warning signals, not triggered by anything that would offend any normal dog, and so vicious that the parents of the child had trouble getting the pit bull mix off their baby.
As an expert on the domestic dog, I’m appalled at Deputy Director Dan DeSousa’s immediate response. He is apparently as aware of the statistics as I am, and is above all concerned about keeping yet another pit bull type out of those statistics.1 He is willing to slander any and all other types of dogs in order to do this. If he really cared about dogs -- or even about pit bulls -- he would react differently. We don’t help dogs by playing name-games that will lead to ever more children being killed by a particular type, then saying any dog would do it. We don’t help pit bull types by denying the danger they present, thus cooperating in setting them up again and again to fail in family homes. This aside from the loss of human life that results from this game, since DeSousa apparently doesn’t care much about that either.
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ReverendHellh0und said:
unless it bites someone then you would call it a pitbull.
I don't believe you have ever trained any dog.
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No......bites are not the issue.

Killing and mauling are the issues.

What you believe is irrelevant.

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Vox said:
It's the most respected pitbull information site on the Internet. It harms your position......which is why you'd like me to stop posting it.

Here's more about child fatalities:

2016 Dog Bite Fatality: Pit Bull Rehomed by Humane Society Kills Newborn Baby - DogsBite.org



:2usflag:
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Nonsense, you were schooled on why it was a fraudulent site.



A more reputable site, the ASPCA disagrees with you.

https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls



Your site takes any report of a dog attack, and without verification, accepts the story's breed. If people like you, are doing the reporting, you could see given your inability to identify what is or is not a pit bull and your penchant for telling untruths. It's easy to see why it would be foolish to use dogbite as a scientific source for your arguments.


But you were already told this. You know it. but your prejudice and bigotry based on willful ignorance of the breed, keeps you keeping on.


The Truth Behind Dogsbite.org - KC DOG BLOG -good read

"every mainstream national organization that is involved in canine/human interactions is opposed to laws targeting specific breeds of dogs. An at-least partial list of these organizations include:

American Dog Owners Association

American Humane

American Kennel Club (AKC)

American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA)

American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA)

American Working Dog Federation

Association of Pet Dog Trainers

Best Friends

Center for Disease Control

Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)

International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants

International Association of Canine Professionals

National Animal Control Association

National Animal Interest Alliance

National Association of Dog Obedience Instructors

National Canine Research Council

No Kill Advocacy Center

You find nearly one-stop shopping of all of the position statements of these groups here.

These groups represent the best of the best in the United States for Dog Trainers, Rescues, Shelters, Animal Behaviorists, Government entities,veterinarians, and even Animal Control Officers. All of them oppose breed specific legislation. All of them, in large part, because they have experience working with the actual dogs, and read the science, and realize the aggession is not a breed-specific issue -and the reality is that most dogs, regardless of breed, do not show aggressive behavior -- and yet, some dogs, of each breed, have. "



So you got a woman who was dog bit, versus, all of these associations and organizations.


You'll ignore this as you do.,
 
Vox said:
You're wrong, as usual.

This is why you're wrong.




As I said before, we probably need better pictures, but your mongrel looks to conform to sufficient physical traits to qualify as a pit bull according to the law.


:2usflag:
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It is LITERALLY an English Bulldog Labrador Mix. It is not up for debate. The parents are: pure bred lab. Pure bred English bulldog.

The Bullador : English Bulldog Lab Mix

Lmao! Yet one more instance of you not understanding how "breed characteristics" work. Especially since they are purely looks based...and the fact that they are all dogs...they all share similar behaviors. Something also not really up for debate as it is also scientifically proven.

Ps

Is there a pit in this picture?

fa89cbdfbec128859d52ca6bc632805f.jpg


Just showed the photo to insurance and they didn't think so. Lol.


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