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Legalization of Drugs

Hornburger

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I was wondering what everyone felt about the legalization of drugs.

By taxing and regulating drugs, we can get huuuge revenues. And do you know how much the war on drugs costs, home and abroad? It's not worth it! It's not that successful. Sure, crime may increase a little, but if they steal they would get thrown in jail. Put that extra money in prevention programs...we can use the excess money to further reduce crime, but how to do that is another topic altogether. These marijuana offenders are not serious threats to society...when they sit in jail all they do is eat up our tax dollars. I think marijuana is not a serious enough drug to be illegal, it is similar to the danger of cigarettes. Regulation of such drugs helps get rid of the black market somewhat, thus reducing the number of gangs and violent deaths. Therefore, some of the violence caused by the legalization of marijuana would be balanced by the reduction in the influence of gangs and violence they cause. Another thing...isn't a tad bit hypocritical letting people take cigarettes and alcohol, which studies show are much more harmful and cause many more deaths than marijuana? It is someone's choice to take a drug that isn't very dangerous to other people surrounding the drug user, as long as they don't cross the line and move into a life of theft and violence.
 

Hornburger

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I agree with your whole post if the drug is relatively harmless. However, if the drug is really mind-altering like a hallucigen (sp?) or something, then those should be illegalized because those drugs completely alter someone and make people much more apt to do things such as murder, theft, and the like.

But on drugs that are on the whole harmless or on basically the same level as alcohol and cigarettes, legalize them.
 

Hornburger

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hmm...good point. I'm just not too familiar with the power of drugs over one's self, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion would be lol. Even if you are stoned, you still have control over your actions. I would agree to that.

Well, then the only restriction I would have is you can't be stoned while driving.
 

gwynn

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I'm all for all soft drugs being legal. Heck half of them are already, why not the other half? But, though I do realise the harm done by the illegal drug trade and the money spent on trying to corral it, I can't approve of making drugs like heroine or cocaine legal. The addiction and mortailty rates are just too high. I'm sure few people who do not use them now plan to be users, but I bet there are lots who would try them if they became legal. Both can hook on first use.
 

ngdawg

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Below is the DEA budget since 1972. We all know how well it's been working, right?:roll:

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/agency/staffing.htm
1972 2,775 1,470 1,305 65.2
1973 2,898 1,470 1,428 74.9
1974 4,075 2,231 1,844 116.2
1975 4,286 2,135 2,151 140.9
1976 4,337 2,141 2,196 161.1
1977 4,439 2,141 2,298 172.8
1978 4,440 2,054 2,386 192.3
1979 4,288 1,984 2,304 200.4
1980 4,149 1,941 2,208 206.7
1981 4,167 1,964 2,203 219.5
1982 4,013 1,896 2,117 244.1
1983 4,013 1,896 2,117 283.9
1984 4,093 1,963 2,130 326.6
1985 4,936 2,234 2,702 362.4
1986 4,925 2,440 2,485 393.5
1987 5,710 2,879 2,831 773.6
1988 5,740 2,899 2,841 522.9
1989 5,926 2,969 2,957 597.9
1990 6,274 3,191 3,083 653.5
1991 7,096 3,615 3,481 875.0
1992 7,264 3,696 3,568 910.0
1993 7,266 3,518 3,748 921.0
1994 7,049 3,611 3,438 970.0
1995 7,389 3,889 3,500 1,001.0
1996 7,369 3,708 3,661 1,050.0
1997 7,872 3,969 3,903 1,238.0
1998 8,452 4,214 4,238 1,384.0
1999 9,046 4,527 4,519 1,477.0
2000 9,141 4,566 4,575 1,586.6
2001 9,209 4,601 4,608 1,697.4
2002 9,388 4,625 4,763 1,799.5
2003 9,725 4,841 4,884 1,891.9
2004 10,564 5,194 5,370 2,040
2005** 10,894 5,296 5,598 2,141

that's $2,141,000,000!!!!!!!
Now,the tax rate is a median of 69.5c per pack of cigarettes:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html
In 1999, federal and state tax revenue from just the sale of cigarettes amounted to $13,000,000,000.
What we pay in income taxes goes to the federal budget outlay, about $2,130,000,000,000 a year.
So, approximately 1% of what we pay in income tax each year goes to this losing 'war on drugs'. Ok, not a lot, you think. But reverse it all. Imagine just pot being legal, taxed and regulated. Surely it would cost more than a pack of cigs, say 5 times as much, making it about $20 for 20 joints( at the median price of a pack of cigs at $3.70).
WHY is this government waging a stupid losing battle at $2,141,000,000 a year when it could be bringing IN over $56,000,000,000!!!!!
I could go on about the crime illegal drugs generate, etc, but we know all this.
The stupidity of this just boggles the mind......
 

FinnMacCool

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I've only done one hallucinagen, and it's suprisingly still legal, and I tripped BALLS, but I had control over my actions, it's just the world was a completely different place. I started pouring sweat, so I stipped down to my boxers and ran out on the porch for about 10 minutes, then went back in and smoked some more, and then the TV became real, like, there were really these people in my TV living out their lives within the box.
Thats exactly the reason why I don't take drugs. Ugh. But I don't think that pot should be illegal. I know many people who use it and they don't do anything dumb (well usually)
 

George_Washington

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I MIGHT be for legalizing marijuana, I'm not sure yet. But definitely not the really hard core stuff. I don't think drugs like LSD are even legal over in Holland, are they? I really just don't think legalizing the hard core stuff would be beneficial to our society.

Even if some drugs were legal, I still wouldn't do them because I personally am against smoking any kind of substance or taking any kind of drug. I just don't see the point of doing drugs; it's not healthy and virtually all fortune 500 companies conduct drug tests for their employees which means if you're caught with them in your system, you get fired.
 

George_Washington

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galenrox said:
Well that's the logic of most people who don't do drugs. I highly doubt there are a bunch of people out there thinking "I'd really like to do coke, but it's illegal!" Getting drugs and concealing them are ridiculously easy that I could have an 8 ball sitting on my computer desk in 20 minutes doing nothing but going to open the door, and no one would know, so it being illegal isn't a big detriment.

You've gotta think about it this way, we're supposed to be a free society, yet we're not allowed to do things that affect no one but ourselves. And making any drug illegal is just ridiculous, all of them, cause the illegality doesn't prevent destructive behavior, it worsens it because the drugs aren't regulated and thus more likely to cause overdoses or to be laced with something else. So yes, hard drugs really are a detriment to society, but while they're illegal they not only have their normal detriment, but then they also carry the detriments of police corruption, street violence, and plus all of the addicts are frickin broke, thus causing more crime and violence.

And I could almost guarantee that I have cocaine in my system right now, and I despise cocaine, I have no interest in doing it, but because I love pot, and pot is not regulated because it is illegal, I've probably recently smoked some laced with coke. And it's just frickin ridiculous that I can't smoke a dried plant in the privacy of my own home in a country that claims to be the land of the free, it's just frickin ridiculous.
I see what you're saying man but here's my take on it. It might be logical think that people have the right to do whatever they want to themselves because the only victim is themselves, etc. But I believe that the overall health of the nation generally outweighs the wants of the individual. I think that legalizing the really hard core stuff would probably lead to not only innocent and naive children getting addicted but also it would lead to an overall unhealthier society. Think about it, why do we have prescription drugs? Why can't they all just be over the counter? Because if you totally remove the doctor from the situation, than you're putting very, very risky medicines in the hands of people who don't know a lot about them and it is just dangerous for society.
 

George_Washington

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galenrox said:
Dude, you're missing the point, this would make getting drugs harder for kids. What do you think's harder for a 14 year old, booze or coke? It's coke, if they know someone who knows someone they can get coke no problem, booze would be harder, because someone who knows someone isn't driving some 14 year olds to get some booze for $10, but he would for a $30 profit for selling an eight ball.
I used to buy pot in school, I bought speed from a security guard. I never once bought booze in school.

And an assumption that you're making is that kids would be more likely to try heroin if it's legal. That's ridiculous, and I heavily doubt that even legally they'd sell heroin and coke in Jewel Oscos, heroin isn't gonna be any different legal or illegal, it's still heroin and we still know what it is. It takes a certain type of person to do heroin, and they're gonna do it regardless of the law.
If we did legalize these drugs, where would you suggest we sell them at?
 

ngdawg

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galenrox said:
Well weed would probably be like beer, like some gas stations would carry it, you could get it at Hyvee or Osco or wherever. Coke would be more like liquor, some grocery stores would have it, liquor stores would have it, probably the same with drugs like meth, acid, shrooms, etc. Heroin would be like everclear, you can find it, but you have to work some, you know?
Not sure why, but that last line made me :lamo
Everything else is perfecly logical, adding to it age limits like they do cigs and booze.
How come the people we elect to office can't be this logical, though? sheesh...:doh

Oh well...by the time this all happens, I'll be too old to go into Buy-Rite and ask for a pack of HighTimes lights :mrgreen:
 

George_Washington

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galenrox said:
lol, as long as you're living you're never too old for that!

The reasons politicians don't act this logically is because they're either too stupid or they're too political.
But dude if it was really that logical to legalize the hard core drugs than why hasn't it been done in Holland? I'm pretty sure they're not legal over there either and Holland is like the most liberal country in the world when it comes to drugs.
 

Connecticutter

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I agree that drugs must be legalized. It has caused so many social problems, that I don't even want to try to list them.

To take a different angle, consider this case: If someone decides that they want to be shooting up heroin, should taxpayers have to fund their medical expenses and possible recovery cost? Personally, I think that if we are going to insist of having some government medicare program, then the people should be expected to meet us half way and not do anything that's going to drive up the cost.

I wonder if Canada has to deal with these types of questions, with their more lax drug policy, and more government-oriented health-care system.
 

Kandahar

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Connecticutter said:
I agree that drugs must be legalized. It has caused so many social problems, that I don't even want to try to list them.

To take a different angle, consider this case: If someone decides that they want to be shooting up heroin, should taxpayers have to fund their medical expenses and possible recovery cost? Personally, I think that if we are going to insist of having some government medicare program, then the people should be expected to meet us half way and not do anything that's going to drive up the cost.
I think a better solution would be to simply legalize the drugs, and NOT have the government medicare program (at least for preventable problems such as this).

Connecticutter said:
I wonder if Canada has to deal with these types of questions, with their more lax drug policy, and more government-oriented health-care system.
Canadian drug laws are generally just as strict as American drug laws (except maybe for marijuana).
 

Iriemon

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ngdawg said:
Below is the DEA budget since 1972. We all know how well it's been working, right?:roll:

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/agency/staffing.htm
......
This is only the budget of one entity of many involved in the drug war. I believe the annual cost when you include law enforcement, courts, prisons, etc. is in the $30 billion per year range.
 

Connecticutter

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Kandahar said:
I think a better solution would be to simply legalize the drugs, and NOT have the government medicare program (at least for preventable problems such as this).
I agree - but could we get the country to agree? Maybe that's a moot point until we get the country to agree to legalize in the first place.
 

ngdawg

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Kandahar said:
I think a better solution would be to simply legalize the drugs, and NOT have the government medicare program (at least for preventable problems such as this).
As it stands now though, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but alcoholism and its responding disease and the ill effects from tobacco can be covered under medicare/medicaid.
With the insane added revenue that legalizing drugs would bring in, it is conceivable that healthcare would be covered across the board, should it come to pass.
It might even stand to reason that heroin addiction could be curbed and heroin's benefits as a legitimate narcotic in medical practice, ala morphine, would be utilized and covered by insurances.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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I believe that despite what conservatives would like to think, one day it's all going to be legal. I do believe that drugs are a moral hazard and a responsible person will probably never do any of them. I think beyond that the real moral hazard is not placing responsibility in the hands of American citizens. I say legal the whole nine yards and leave to the people's autonomy. I do believe that this should only be done with more education about drugs that way the American citenzs are well informed.
 
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