Leftists Are Failing All Over

[fmw]

Liberals are bad because Venezuela?

I think he meant Venezuela is bad because of socialism.

 

[Master PO]

right wing/left wing :lol:

its no wonder governments are messed up, when people think of government in these terms instead of .....how much power will the government have.

 

[274ina]

Was thinking the same thing since 5th grade, even designed my house in Oz back then. Never quite made it yet.

Wonderful Oz, I dont like their not having a second amendment like we do. I am also not an expert, but have researched it, and the US, not Oz, is a leader in innovation. China has surpassed us recently, but we are second in total patents and with only a 5th of the World Population, the Chinese literally have a billion people more than we. We are very creative in medical device and pharmaceutical development, besides which we pretty much cover the real cost of Oz's and the rest of the free world's defense. Maybe we should have Oz and the rest pay for all our health care costs, eh?

And I seriously question, and actually rather doubt, "they get everything they need, on the spot...". I am not of aware of any country that has the per capita number of advanced diagnostic tools per capita that the US has, and so most have to wait for critical information to be gathered and analyzed. Affordable Care Act of 2010 placed an excise tax on medical devices, eating into revenue and reducing profit, so yes, Obama is trying to kill that off as well. I believe they suspended the tax for 2 years in December, but that is just staving it off unless and until we can get a president with some sense back in the office and get rid of the current encumbering"HC" being forced down our throats.

With an aging population there will continue to be demand, but regulations are going up and, if you are eating away at the profits, companies will either shift overseas or cut back on innovation and development. We are also falling behind in education/talent in innovation with too many of our students taking non productive degrees. That is an opportunity cost for the funds invested and the wastage of young people's minds only instilling more anxiety and frustration society wide.

Wow, what mumbo jumbo.

What good is advanced HC that is denied to majority of the population?
What good is TO MANY MRI's that no one can afford? Why not have just one, and let all use it.
Last MRI I was around in USA, was used about 1-2 hrs a few days a week.................

PROFITS are the problem...........time to eliminate them in HC.

 

[Mithrae]

This the story of a guy I met in Mexico, we both lived on sail boats. His wife got sick on the great barrier reef.

Yes the Aussi's "pay" for HC via general taxes, Dr's or anyone in HC, does NOT get fee for service. They get salarys, and supplies get paid for. No profits, no jets, no yachts. So when a citizens goes to the Dr or hospital, they get everything they need, on the spot, and PAY NOTHING.

Go live there, you might learn something and it will open your eyes.

Obviously you haven't lived here :doh Plenty of hospitals are private, for-profit organisations. Many if not most GPs are running or employed in private businesses, with the discretion to decide whether and for which patients they'll accept Medicare bulk billing (accepting the Medicare benefit as full payment for their service): Many GPs do bulk billing only for pensioners and low-income health care card holders, and that sometimes in part because if they didn't the old and poor patients would simply find a doctor who did. Others do bulk billing for all patients. Even without bulk billing, Medicare heavily subsidizes most medical needs, but it's not always free; which is good IMO, because an out of pocket payment discourages frivolous overuse of the system. Not that I'm an expert, but I reckon we've got a pretty good system - even in the private healthcare sector, prices remain reasonable for those who can afford them because if they were wildly higher than the public system, even slightly faster and better service wouldn't entice many customers :lol: But there are often waiting lists of weeks or months for surgery deemed 'non-critical' through the public system, and I've heard from professionals I've known that areas like aged care and mental health remain seriously underfunded.

Painting as some idealistic utopia the system of another country which you know next to nothing about merely to make some rhetorical political point for your own country might not be the best way to go here, flattering though it may be. 90% of the developed world would probably agree that the US system leaves vast room for improvement, but let's face it -- an expensive essential sector like healthcare is never going to be easily or perfectly managed.

###

Was thinking the same thing since 5th grade, even designed my house in Oz back then. Never quite made it yet.

Wonderful Oz, I dont like their not having a second amendment like we do. I am also not an expert, but have researched it, and the US, not Oz, is a leader in innovation. China has surpassed us recently, but we are second in total patents and with only a 5th of the World Population, the Chinese literally have a billion people more than we. We are very creative in medical device and pharmaceutical development, besides which we pretty much cover the real cost of Oz's and the rest of the free world's defense. Maybe we should have Oz and the rest pay for all our health care costs, eh?

China and Russia combined apparently spent about $200 billion on their militaries in 2014 - 1.2% and 3.7% of their respective GDPs. The United Kingdom (2.1%), France (1.8%), Japan (1.0%), India (2.2%), Germany (1.1%) and South Korea (2.4%) combined spent about $286 billion; all countries with at least as much interest as the United States in curtailing militant expansionism by the traditionally non-aligned global powers. [Edit: Numbers are from a post a month or so ago; Wikipedia seems to have moved to 2015 data since then.]

The United States spent $581 billion on its military in that year, more than the next nine nations combined. Granted as a percentage of GDP that's not vastly higher than some other Western nations (3%), but whining that the US is some kind of lone ranger out there saving everyone else's skin is a bit rich in those circumstances :lol: The United States isn't a heroic global policeman - it's an unfortunate victim of its own military industrial complex, at best. Law-abiding American participation in global stability is undoubtedly important, and was pivotal in WW2. And there's certainly reason to be concerned about the escapades of Russia or China in their own backyards. But in 2003 the US showed that it was more than willing to flagrantly violate international law and overwhelming international opposition by invading a country on the opposite side of the world without UNSC authorization, on the flimsiest of pretexts and ultimately destabilizing the region far more than ever before (as many had warned would be the case). A US military superpower is certainly better than a Nazi or Soviet or communist Chinese superpower, no doubt. But that's a pretty low bar to aim for

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Wow, what mumbo jumbo.

What good is advanced HC that is denied to majority of the population?
What good is TO MANY MRI's that no one can afford? Why not have just one, and let all use it.
Last MRI I was around in USA, was used about 1-2 hrs a few days a week.................

PROFITS are the problem...........time to eliminate them in HC.

Let me ask, O Mumbo Unjumbler:

Just where is this mythical place in the USA in which the majority of the population was denied advanced HC? And where, after passage of the laughable misnomer Affordable Care Act, is it now being... you know, undenied?

What good is too few MRIs? And plenty of people afforded them, I am in no way rich and I have gotten them.

I am sorry, but you are sooooOOOOoooo poorly informed. Have you any idea what innovation that the profit motive has generated? Ever even thought consciously about it? Where do you think the majority of the advances, in every spectrum, have come from? In the last 200 years the free market system has pushed this envelope of transformation steadily towards the positive in shared abundance. We, people, if rewarded, bring forth all sorts of bounty. The world has improved dramatically with higher standards of living, improved health care and longevity, efficiencies required in markets to compete have driven costs way down with the added benefit of constantly improved products in an effort to compete for what? I will tell you exactly what, its the mooooOOOOOooola, the money, the dinero. The profit motive, pure and simple.

One would have to be blind, or wearing blinders, not to have noticed that.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

China and Russia combined apparently spent about $200 billion on their militaries in 2014 - 1.2% and 3.7% of their respective GDPs. The United Kingdom (2.1%), France (1.8%), Japan (1.0%), India (2.2%), Germany (1.1%) and South Korea (2.4%) combined spent about $286 billion; all countries with at least as much interest as the United States in curtailing militant expansionism by the traditionally non-aligned global powers. [Edit: Numbers are from a post a month or so ago; Wikipedia seems to have moved to 2015 data since then.]

The United States spent $581 billion on its military in that year, more than the next nine nations combined. Granted as a percentage of GDP that's not vastly higher than some other Western nations (3%), but whining that the US is some kind of lone ranger out there saving everyone else's skin is a bit rich in those circumstances :lol: The United States isn't a heroic global policeman - it's an unfortunate victim of its own military industrial complex, at best. Law-abiding American participation in global stability is undoubtedly important, and was pivotal in WW2. And there's certainly reason to be concerned about the escapades of Russia or China in their own backyards. But in 2003 the US showed that it was more than willing to flagrantly violate international law and overwhelming international opposition by invading a country on the opposite side of the world without UNSC authorization, on the flimsiest of pretexts and ultimately destabilizing the region far more than ever before (as many had warned would be the case). A US military superpower is certainly better than a Nazi or Soviet or communist Chinese superpower, no doubt. But that's a pretty low bar to aim for

When was the last World War?

Of the two immediately identifiable in the last century, how many were started by the US? Neither. How many were [ understanding it was a joint effort, but please, still, we all know the correct answer] were ended by the US? Both. Since we, the USA, were so overwhelmingly dominant after WW2 and beyond, well, no real need for another cataclysm as we had had before. Did we use that power primarily for destructive or disagreeable goals, as have our enemies? Hell no. We have lost a lot of blood and treasure standing up to the predators and bullies of the world. Are we perfect, far from it, just far better and, fortunately far stronger, than the rest.

We did, in effect, fight a third World War, the Cold War was a global chess game war that we fought intelligently [ even though we had the A bomb alone and could have done pretty much anything we pleased] with our original Containment Theory, the associated Truman Doctrine, Marshall Plan, etc... we gave our pledge to the free world, kept the pledge and kept it free, rebuilt a lot of our former enemies and assisted our allies who in nearly all in exceedingly poor economic straits.

$581 Billion is far better than the costs, misery, destruction, death and otherwise, of war. At least to anybody who has studied such things. You malcontents always want to complain but we all know who everyone goes to in times of trouble. Hint? Not China, not Russia, not Germany, not France, not even England.

Not gonna re-fight the whole Iraq War with you here, have already proven its worth in various other threads. Ever hear of the First Gulf War cease fire agreement. How about 16 UN resolutions ignored/breached by Iraq? France, never having learned the hard lesson the Nazis tried to teach them as regards appeasement, obstinately threatened their SC veto and forced us to go around the nearly always hopelessly flaccid UN. That "destabilization" came with the progressives/Democrats in the US Congress with control of the funding forcing GW to withdraw after we had achieved victory in the war and in the peace, a policy continued on idiotically by the current boob-in-chief who left without even a Status of Forces Agreement, the dithering, incompetent and/or fifth columnist nimrod. Again, another "Progressive"international mistake that has put the whole world at greater risk.

We did the right thing when most were unwilling to lift a finger. Oz was on our side during and post war, if I remember correctly.

Study and learn your history.

 

[Mithrae]

When was the last World War?

Of the two immediately identifiable in the last century, how many were started by the US? Neither. How many were [ understanding it was a joint effort, but please, still, we all know the correct answer] were ended by the US? Both. Since we, the USA, were so overwhelmingly dominant after WW2 and beyond, well, no real need for another cataclysm as we had had before. Did we use that power primarily for destructive or disagreeable goals, as have our enemies? Hell no. We have lost a lot of blood and treasure standing up to the predators and bullies of the world. Are we perfect, far from it, just far better and, fortunately far stronger, than the rest.

We did, in effect, fight a third World War, the Cold War was a global chess game war that we fought intelligently [ even though we had the A bomb alone and could have done pretty much anything we pleased] with our original Containment Theory, the associated Truman Doctrine, Marshall Plan, etc... we gave our pledge to the free world, kept the pledge and kept it free, rebuilt a lot of our former enemies and assisted our allies who in nearly all in exceedingly poor economic straits.

You're kind of losing sight of what you claimed here, which was that "we pretty much cover the real cost of Oz's and the rest of the free world's defense," which is obviously, blatantly incorrect. Even in the world wars, American contributions were ultimately a minority of the overall allied efforts in both, and perhaps not even a greater individual contribution than a country like Britain (certainly not if one counts the whole British Empire/Commonwealth!) which was more heavily involved for a longer period. But by eventually finding out that they were not immune to attack themselves and hence being drawn into the wars, Americans certainly helped tip the balance.

Given that, if the two world wars showed anything - including the years without direct American involvement - it was that in the modern era no one or two countries could hope to achieve military expansion across much of the world; that other countries would inevitably be drawn in to major regional or hemispheric conflicts even if (as in the US in both conflicts) the general sentiment was against involvement; and hence that even a coalition of aggressive powers would inevitably be opposed by other alliances and produce a long, gruelling, more-or-less stalemate circumstance which in two out of two cases ended ultimately in the aggressors' defeat. Nuclear and biological weapons aside, that's even more true now than it ever was before. And on that score, while there certainly were people in both the United States and the Soviet Union insane enough to contemplate first strike nuclear attacks, fortunately there were more who understood how utterly stupid and probably self-destructive it would be; that's precisely why it remained a 'cold' war. By your comment that you "could have done pretty much anything we pleased," you may not be amongst that number of course :lol:

Into the 21st century, as I showed, whether in terms of present military capability or the economic potential which could be brought to bear in a full-scale conflict, there's really no currently plausible line-up of powers in which countries like France, Canada, Australia and so on would be on an underdog team even removing the US from the equation entirely. So pretending that your overblown military budget - higher now than it ever was during the Cold War! - is defending everyone else is little more than ignorant conceit.



Hence, that's hardly a good argument against the fact that many other developed countries achieve better healthcare results for their citizens, with lower costs per capita than the United States.

Simple fact is that advanced healthcare is an essential need which can only be provided institutionally: Unlike computers or food, people can neither choose not to bother with it, nor handle it themselves. So if it's left entirely to corporations, they will inevitably try to bleed their captive consumers dry - especially in a lobby-driven government such as America's. Even if a public system is only an alternative/competitor to the private system, as in Australia, a genuine publicly operated or controlled system (ie, not just forcing everyone to pay insurance companies), seems the only sensible way to go.

Your desperate flailing boasts about your country's imagined military generousity suggests that you really don't have anything else to offer on that subject

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

You're kind of losing sight of what you claimed here, which was that "we pretty much cover the real cost of Oz's and the rest of the free world's defense," which is obviously, blatantly incorrect.

While you show a decent eclectic view of WW history, the fact of the matter is that, because we are not principally a warring nation, we like to avoid wars and should well have stayed out, as mentioned earlier, from being dragged into the first, a massive “Progressive” mistake, as we were the deciding factor in that war which then went overwhelmingly to the allies. Because we learned our lesson we were even more reluctant to get involved in another disastrous world conflict until Japan “invited” us with an offer we could not refuse.

While it is certain that our ally at the time, the Soviet Union, bore the brunt of the fighting, they were aggressors themselves who were a catalyst for that conflict. Due to that they fought for their very survival on their own ground. We are smart enough to keep wars such as these out of our entire hemisphere. We did/do that by being strong. Many of our neighbors express frustration with this, but on balance, we leave them to themselves and we have not had the wars and tens of millions massacred as in Europe and Asia. We have, whether you choose to recognize it or not, been the ones that have kept global wars from occurring again. This on the backs of the American taxpayer and, as you plainly show here, with no real recognition, much less the appreciation, of the fact.

Here is just one example of what happens, in a minor conflict, when one of our allies is helping “lead the way” when Obama started his leading from behind thing

Libya: Navy running short of Tomahawk missiles - Telegraph

Ill prepared and unequipped for any sustainable situation and so, must ultimately rely upon the US for their real security. Unequivocally. Your “underdog” teams are all similarly unprepared. Russia and China are steadily gearing up and a France/UK/Germany, or really just about any mix and match rag tag team, would be rather lopsided with victory no doubt going to the two former. Russia has nearly twice the active front line military personnel as the mentioned combined 3 and even with Canada and Oz, not even a close match.

In any event, it is us, the US, that keeps the world free. Deny it at your leisure, but rely upon US when needed. Disingenuous on y'alls part, but that's what Americans put up with.

The rest of the world also relies upon American ingenuity, for instance, to develop newer, more efficient/more effective medical devices with free market competition constantly bringing down price, improving product and creating distribution channels... there are so many free market areas that are just plain forgotten, ignored or not considered as you don't know what you don't know.

Choice is one. Americans would rather work and achieve a better healthcare situation individually within a free market than to be expressly told by a government what they will and what they will absolutely not be able to receive.

So if it's left entirely to corporations, they will inevitably try to bleed their captive consumers dry - especially in a lobby-driven government such as America's.

Which brings us full circle back to why we need government reduced in size and scope, so those corporations have solely the consumer to rely on for its profit... and healthcare especially where there is really only the long term as you have to build hospitals and educate and staff them... consumer confidence and return business is required... so you give the people what they want at lower costs, improved service with a smile. Its the system that works.

Don't know in Oz if you have ever waited in line at what we call the DMV, the department of motor vehicles, but workers for the state, not based on profit, are less likely to be efficient and/or friendly.

 

[274ina]

and obliviously your a fake, because the Ausi;s DONT HAVE MEDICARE or use any of those terms.

And I was there, thier coverage, (maybe New Zealand) covers entire South Pacific, All the governments pay in to system. It even covers flights to Major citys for medical need....Truth directly from the people that live there.

 

[274ina]

Let me ask, O Mumbo Unjumbler:

Just where is this mythical place in the USA in which the majority of the population was denied advanced HC? And where, after passage of the laughable misnomer Affordable Care Act, is it now being... you know, undenied?

What good is too few MRIs? And plenty of people afforded them, I am in no way rich and I have gotten them.

I am sorry, but you are sooooOOOOoooo poorly informed. Have you any idea what innovation that the profit motive has generated? Ever even thought consciously about it? Where do you think the majority of the advances, in every spectrum, have come from? In the last 200 years the free market system has pushed this envelope of transformation steadily towards the positive in shared abundance. We, people, if rewarded, bring forth all sorts of bounty. The world has improved dramatically with higher standards of living, improved health care and longevity, efficiencies required in markets to compete have driven costs way down with the added benefit of constantly improved products in an effort to compete for what? I will tell you exactly what, its the mooooOOOOOooola, the money, the dinero. The profit motive, pure and simple.

One would have to be blind, or wearing blinders, not to have noticed that.

All of USA is denied medical care. The lies of the rich make a few THNIK they have HC, when they don't, they just get denied when sick and die.

Most states allowed people to sign up for ACA, a few did not. But what is total now? 8-12 million now get HC.

Never said it was to few MRI's. I said we don't need most of the ones we have. As it is, people cant get to them
because of the extortionist criminal Insurance and Dr's. But that is righ, you people don't care about NEED, all you can about is GREED, and forcing ideology on people.

Free MArket does not exist, and your system has failed to serve the people in 1880, to now. It also totally failed and needed massive welfare in 2008............remember the trillions given to the banks and the failed investors?

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

All of USA is denied medical care. The lies of the rich make a few THNIK they have HC, when they don't, they just get denied when sick and die.

Most states allowed people to sign up for ACA, a few did not. But what is total now? 8-12 million now get HC.

Never said it was to few MRI's. I said we don't need most of the ones we have. As it is, people cant get to them
because of the extortionist criminal Insurance and Dr's. But that is righ, you people don't care about NEED, all you can about is GREED, and forcing ideology on people.

Free MArket does not exist, and your system has failed to serve the people in 1880, to now. It also totally failed and needed massive welfare in 2008............remember the trillions given to the banks and the failed investors?

Wrong, silliness, absolute tripe.

I used it, saw other teachers using it, babies born, doctor visits, the whole thing. Had MRIs myself, I wasnt the only one, there was a whole waiting room full when I went.

Even had friends, married, neither citizens nor working and they had a baby in trouble, heart born outside the chest, $900k , not including WIC afterwards, paid by American taxpayers... so go sell your houie elsewhere.

The free market has been messed up by the government interfering, but you dont cure too much government involvement by increasing government involvement even more. Wow.

 

[TheIceman]

While you show a decent eclectic view of WW history, the fact of the matter is that, because we are not principally a warring nation, we like to avoid wars and should well have stayed out, as mentioned earlier, from being dragged into the first, a massive “Progressive” mistake, as we were the deciding factor in that war which then went overwhelmingly to the allies. Because we learned our lesson we were even more reluctant to get involved in another disastrous world conflict until Japan “invited” us with an offer we could not refuse.

While it is certain that our ally at the time, the Soviet Union, bore the brunt of the fighting, they were aggressors themselves who were a catalyst for that conflict. Due to that they fought for their very survival on their own ground. We are smart enough to keep wars such as these out of our entire hemisphere. We did/do that by being strong. Many of our neighbors express frustration with this, but on balance, we leave them to themselves and we have not had the wars and tens of millions massacred as in Europe and Asia. We have, whether you choose to recognize it or not, been the ones that have kept global wars from occurring again. This on the backs of the American taxpayer and, as you plainly show here, with no real recognition, much less the appreciation, of the fact.

Here is just one example of what happens, in a minor conflict, when one of our allies is helping “lead the way” when Obama started his leading from behind thing

Libya: Navy running short of Tomahawk missiles - Telegraph

Ill prepared and unequipped for any sustainable situation and so, must ultimately rely upon the US for their real security. Unequivocally. Your “underdog” teams are all similarly unprepared. Russia and China are steadily gearing up and a France/UK/Germany, or really just about any mix and match rag tag team, would be rather lopsided with victory no doubt going to the two former. Russia has nearly twice the active front line military personnel as the mentioned combined 3 and even with Canada and Oz, not even a close match.

In any event, it is us, the US, that keeps the world free. Deny it at your leisure, but rely upon US when needed. Disingenuous on y'alls part, but that's what Americans put up with.

The rest of the world also relies upon American ingenuity, for instance, to develop newer, more efficient/more effective medical devices with free market competition constantly bringing down price, improving product and creating distribution channels... there are so many free market areas that are just plain forgotten, ignored or not considered as you don't know what you don't know.

Choice is one. Americans would rather work and achieve a better healthcare situation individually within a free market than to be expressly told by a government what they will and what they will absolutely not be able to receive.




Which brings us full circle back to why we need government reduced in size and scope, so those corporations have solely the consumer to rely on for its profit... and healthcare especially where there is really only the long term as you have to build hospitals and educate and staff them... consumer confidence and return business is required... so you give the people what they want at lower costs, improved service with a smile. Its the system that works.

Don't know in Oz if you have ever waited in line at what we call the DMV, the department of motor vehicles, but workers for the state, not based on profit, are less likely to be efficient and/or friendly.

These kinds of stories are dangerous and inaccurate... or dangerously inaccurate. Items like this cause panic at home and disrespect abroad. At best, it's reckless, irresponsible jouranalism; at best it's a threat to national security.

Shamesless press zobmies.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

These kinds of stories are dangerous and inaccurate... or dangerously inaccurate. Items like this cause panic at home and disrespect abroad. At best, it's reckless, irresponsible jouranalism; at best it's a threat to national security.

Shamesless press zobmies.

I am aware the Iceman cometh...but didn't say anything decipherable. Maybe wanna clarify what it is you are attempting here?

 

[TheIceman]

I am aware the Iceman cometh...but didn't say anything decipherable. Maybe wanna clarify what it is you are attempting here?

I am saying this kind of unfounded story shouldn't be in the news. It's a bad idea.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I am saying this kind of unfounded story shouldn't be in the news. It's a bad idea.

The Telegraph story about the British Navy running short on Tomahawks?

 

[274ina]

Wrong, silliness, absolute tripe.

I used it, saw other teachers using it, babies born, doctor visits, the whole thing. Had MRIs myself, I wasnt the only one, there was a whole waiting room full when I went.

Even had friends, married, neither citizens nor working and they had a baby in trouble, heart born outside the chest, $900k , not including WIC afterwards, paid by American taxpayers... so go sell your houie elsewhere.

The free market has been messed up by the government interfering, but you dont cure too much government involvement by increasing government involvement even more. Wow.

Teachers are govermeent employees, and have unions still (somewhat) and so they
still get HC. But not your unemployed US CITIZEN.

Yes they help those they have too, per the ER law, but make excuses all they can...........

Free MArket? Tell me about the free market of Health insurance nation wide? LMAO. Its not, its state by state
monopoly's.

 

[matchlight]

Like, woah, dude--lighten up. Being progressive is totally cool. You'll never be in with the in crowd talking righty-tighty BS, cuz, like all the inteligent, hip people are liberals. Their's no denying it--Neo-cons and Cruz-type facists were standing behind the door when they passed out the brains. Get over it

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Teachers are govermeent employees, and have unions still (somewhat) and so they
still get HC. But not your unemployed US CITIZEN.

Yes they help those they have too, per the ER law, but make excuses all they can...........

Free MArket? Tell me about the free market of Health insurance nation wide? LMAO. Its not, its state by state
monopoly's.

I was pretty dang poor at one time...living in Albuquerque, NM. I used the clinic set up for that, they had a sliding scale depending on how much you could afford. I got inoculations, a mole removed, check ups, free condoms... and I wasn't complaining. You are expecting the world without earning or paying for it.

Sorry, that just isn't right.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Like, woah, dude--lighten up. Being progressive is totally cool. You'll never be in with the in crowd talking righty-tighty BS, cuz, like all the inteligent, hip people are liberals. Their's no denying it--Neo-cons and Cruz-type facists were standing behind the door when they passed out the brains. Get over it

Well, hell yeaauh. High five, comrade...cause I wanna be too too cool for my shoes...

Good points, I had totally missed that.

 

[274ina]

I was pretty dang poor at one time...living in Albuquerque, NM. I used the clinic set up for that, they had a sliding scale depending on how much you could afford. I got inoculations, a mole removed, check ups, free condoms... and I wasn't complaining. You are expecting the world without earning or paying for it.

Sorry, that just isn't right.

Healthcare is not a Gucci hand bag or fancy car. Its not part of your "economics".
Leaving people that cant work, because of some fixable health item, is just stupid. Letting them DIE is even worse.
HC is a FIX COST. Just like fire, police and roads.