Leftist Ivy League university Princeton says that life begins at fertilization.

[Aunt Antifa]

Did I assign anything to the individual woman or to her choice?

How a society treats the weakest among them has become a measure of the morality of that society. No Utopia includes systems of genocide or ethnic cleansing.

Protecting the weak from the strong is a marker of an enlightened civilization.

The unborn are undoubtedly among the weakest in our number.

By this our society is indicted.

The women choosing abortion on demand are not any way more culpable of anything than is any other person in our society which is both approving and endorsing that choice.

No person is an island.

The unborn are not persons. Your projection of superstition is what defines them as such for you.

THe weakest among our society would be those incarcerated awaiting a death sentence. Powerless to stop the state from murdering them.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

It doesnt need to. The abortion issue is 'generally' about ending a life and for the religious, at least Jews and Christians, the discussion of when that life 'begins' and ensoulment occurs is very relevant.

Being anti-choice is always a religious stance.

 

[Scrabaholic]

The unborn are not persons. Your projection of superstition is what defines them as such for you.

THe weakest among our society would be those incarcerated awaiting a death sentence. Powerless to stop the state from murdering them.

They weren't powerless from committing the crime that got them there.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

They weren't powerless from committing the crime that got them there.

Correct but “got them there” is not the same as “made helpless while murdered.”

Either your definitions have meaning by your own standards or they don’t for the rest of us.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Correct but “got them there” is not the same as “made helpless while murdered.”

Either your definitions have meaning by your own standards or they don’t for the rest of us.

The d/p isn't murder any more than abortion is.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

The d/p isn't murder any more than abortion is.

Ohhhh I disagree with that. It’s premeditated murder. That’s a person.

 

[Lursa]

Being anti-choice is always a religious stance.

I dont agree but it seems true for the most part.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Ohhhh I disagree with that. It’s premeditated murder. That’s a person.

It is legal, so it cannot be murder. Same reason legal abortion cannot be murder

 

[Aunt Antifa]

It is legal, so it cannot be murder. Same reason legal abortion cannot be murder

Oh, well, then why are we arguing about abortion then since it’s legal?

 

[code1211]

The unborn are not persons. Your projection of superstition is what defines them as such for you.

THe weakest among our society would be those incarcerated awaiting a death sentence. Powerless to stop the state from murdering them.

Your understanding of the legality of the matter as understood in our law is admirable.

My wife understands very clearly that the unborn who are now adults were alive before birth. That you dismiss this reveals some not-too-good stuff about you.

Are you asserting the the death sentences are universally rendered on folks who never had any crime of violence exerting their strength and power over another?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Your understanding of the legality of the matter as understood in our law is admirable.

My wife understands very clearly that the unborn who are now adults were alive before birth. That you dismiss this reveals some not-too-good stuff about you.

Are you asserting the the death sentences are universally rendered on folks who never had any crime of violence exerting their strength and power over another?

I”m not going to assert or deny any created sentences from you or anyone else. You can miss me with that schtick.

I’m asserting: if life is precious, you cannot caveat that to insist your own jdugement of crime and punishment now allows you to murder someone who has no ability to protect themselves. You also cannot be in favor of abortion for instances of rape or incest.

The above is just purely rational logic for people who insist their opposition to abortion is purely based on how precious life is.

I don’t know or care what your wife thinks about any of this and it’s bad form to stand behind her when she can’t speak for herself. Further: I don’t care what you think about my morality. That you keep bringing it up in another science-backed-exchange proves even you folks know your entire argument relies on emotion.

 

[code1211]

I”m not going to assert or deny any created sentences from you or anyone else. You can miss me with that schtick.

I’m asserting: if life is precious, you cannot caveat that to insist your own jdugement of crime and punishment now allows you to murder someone who has no ability to protect themselves. You also cannot be in favor of abortion for instances of rape or incest.

The above is just purely rational logic for people who insist their opposition to abortion is purely based on how precious life is.

I don’t know or care what your wife thinks about any of this and it’s bad form to stand behind her when she can’t speak for herself. Further: I don’t care what you think about my morality. That you keep bringing it up in another science-backed-exchange proves even you folks know your entire argument relies on emotion.

My argument? My argument on what? What do you feel my argument is?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

My argument? My argument on what? What do you feel my argument is?

Anytime you wish to engage, I’ll be here. Anytime.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Oh, well, then why are we arguing about abortion then since it’s legal?

Because there are those who want to make it illegal.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Because there are those who want to make it illegal.

Oh. Then.

 

[code1211]

Anytime you wish to engage, I’ll be here. Anytime.

If you choose to discuss my opinions instead of what you wish my opinions might be, I'll be glad to discuss.

 

[weaver2]

1.How a society treats the weakest among them has become a measure of the morality of that society.
2.No Utopia includes systems of genocide or ethnic cleansing.
3.Protecting the weak from the strong is a marker of an enlightened civilization.
4.The unborn are undoubtedly among the weakest in our number.
5.By this our society is indicted.
6.The women choosing abortion on demand are not any way more culpable of anything than is any other person in our society which is both approving and endorsing that choice.
7.No person is an island.

LOL. Looks like you ran out of cliches before you could make an intelligent argument. Too funny! Oh, this wasn't supposed to be funny? Oops-sorry. (snicker)

 

[Lursa]

If you choose to discuss my opinions instead of what you wish my opinions might be, I'll be glad to discuss.

I do. And I was hoping you would address this, because I think you reveal a very important consideration that many pro-life people seem to be very inconsistent on. Many pro-life people claim that the unborn is the same as a born person, equal, because they will 'develop into people.'

But here you are disregarding what the female unborn develop into. I think that's critical to a good argument here.

An ultrasound can reveal the gender of the unborn after about 20 weeks. Before that ALL unborn are physically female. We all have nipples.

The physical changes differentiating the two genders do not start until the male fetuses start to produce the greater amounts of testosterone.

As we all must understand by now in order to be stylish, physical changes may or may not mark the gender.

Early abortions abort only females. In later term abortions, the chances of aborting a female are still greater than 50-50.

I like this! If you are going with early abortion only aborts females and entirely discounts what it will develop into in the future, then surely you are pro-choice and have no claims to the view that aborting the unborn kills 'babies,' or future people. There is no need to account for what they will develop into.

Do you agree?

 

[code1211]

LOL. Looks like you ran out of cliches before you could make an intelligent argument. Too funny! Oh, this wasn't supposed to be funny? Oops-sorry. (snicker)

Your lack of depth and grasp of the obvious is noted. AGAIN.

 

[Lursa]

LOL. Looks like you ran out of cliches before you could make an intelligent argument. Too funny! Oh, this wasn't supposed to be funny? Oops-sorry. (snicker)

Easy enough to drive a nail right thru #1...the unborn are not 'among us.' And society doenst, cannot, treat them like anything. Abortion is an individual decision.

Looking at that list, I think I can sink all of them....I've described why abortion isnt genocide many times: it's not an organized campaign against any demographic at all, it reaches across all races and ethnicities, and it's an individual decision by the woman who's only agenda is protecting her own health and responsibilities.

Maybe I'll tackle the whole list when I have more time. Kinda fun.

 

[Lursa]

Please post some.

Cuz otherwise, all I saw in both links was what I wrote in the earlier thread...science is objective and applies no value to anything and recognizes no rights for anything.

So that brings us back, once again to "who says" that the unborn have a right to life? What authority that Americans are obligated to follow?

The second link shows SEVERAL QUOTES from many Ivy League educators. Nice try.

No, sorry, I missed them. Or they didnt say what you think they did.

Please post some that support your position. Here. To discuss specifically and on topic.

I'd like to see the specific quotes and then if they dont answer my question (in bold above), maybe you can.