Goals which Che or Castro obviously attained, especially with all that shooting! And to trying and 'abolish poverty' is only relative. If you take the wealth from the rich man, too little to spread and improve the lot of the poor man, everybody's poor and 'equal'. The communist government can then claim 'job done'.
Communism's for dupes and socialism only seems to lack the true secret state police. And like Nazism and fascism, leftism promotes a bright and happy tomorrow with everybody well catered for, but delivers death and destruction and tension around the world.
Actually yeah. Particularly Cuba and China.
EUROPE political forum.
Well, seeing how there has never been a true communist party I'd say that's innacurate.
Also equating the entire "left" with socialism and communism isn't just lazy it's wrong.
Well, the former socialist regime in the East German dictatorship persecuted homosexuals. Until 1989, their behavior was considered an "illness" that must be "cured". In order to do that, the harder cases were often thrown into psychiatry or "re-education" (torture and brainwashing). Homosexuality was not accepted.
Only after Reunification and reformation, the successors of the regime party changed that stance, because they realized they'd alienate too many Western leftists, who hold socially liberal opinions.
News? Current affairs?
News? Current affairs?
I don't understand what you want from me. Maybe you mistake me for RoP? Seems like that, because I don't have the impression your reply has not the slightest thing to do with what I wrote.
Even that treatment was based on cultural prejudice rather than any ideals of Socialism or Communism (seems that even dictators have to be slightly populist on these kinds of issues!)
Intriguing statement. In the Left, socialism and communism are not indivisible, whilst the purity of communism can even be derailed by the impurity of the people it oppresses!
My original post was very much about the context of a liberal Europe in the current climate which I had hoped had been picked up; not about China, Cuba or past regimes which I know were appalling in the way they treated homosexuals. Even that treatment was based on cultural prejudice rather than any ideals of Socialism or Communism (seems that even dictators have to be slightly populist on these kinds of issues!).
I say that because the modern philosophy of the western European liberal and left has adopted equality of differing sexualities while conservative and far right elements still yearn for the days when they could go "Queer-bashing" with impunity. Nostalgia?
"The left" before then was pretty authoritarian and emphasized conformity.
You must all think and do the same. You must want to remain in the EU and see it 'federalise' or your views count for nil. You must want a soft judicial system or your views count for nil, etc.
...the new mind tyranny is imposed ever so politely.
You're right about the left in the West. Most of them have adopted individual freedom as a point as well.
But that was not the case in the traditional left (before the late 60s earliest), at least on the topic of sexual minorities. "The left" before then was pretty authoritarian and emphasized conformity. The left in the East Bloc never embraced this kind of "individualist leftism" as it did in the West until 1989/90, some of them maybe not even up to today.
The classic worker movement was not interested in sexual minority issues. Many traditional people from the working class are still prejudiced towards homosexuality. This issue has been brought into debate by the "intellectual" left, students' movement and so on, who care more about individual freedom and equality or environmentalism.
In Germany, this difference is reflected by different left-leaning parties: The Green Party is the party that directly followed the rise of individualist left movements in the late 60s and 70s. The center-left Social Democrats have adopted some of these stances too, but focus more on labor equality. And the far-left Left Party hardly ever mentions these stances, and their chairman was the only politican I saw making bigoted remarks in the campaign about the homosexuality of now Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle (who is libertarian) -- even the conservatives didn't do that.
When facing the choice between individual equality or environmentalist issues on one side, and improvement of worker rights on the other, the Greens (individualist left) will always chose the former. Vice versa the traditional left of the socialist Left Party: They couldn't care less about individual minority rights or environmental issues, as long as they get improvements for workers and unemployed.
The socialist East German dictatorship was a hellhole of pollution and environment destruction, and of minority bashing. Many traditional leftists focusing on the labor movement still have no problem with that, and many of the Left Party's supporters still buy into bigoted and hateful gay-bashing.
Since individual freedom is one of the most important topics for me, I could imagine (and have) voting for the Greens, but never for the socialist Left Party. They are not any less anti-individualist and authoritarian than the conservatives.
Indeed German Guy! In -very much- deed!
I'm sure challenging my comment about contemporary Leftist attitudes can be done by banging the table and calling for silence! Very European but it's not too English.
Oh, a persecution complex, how very original.
Look, when you are posting intellectual diarrhea, nobody is going to tell you you are not allowed to do that. But you have to live with it when people are annoyed, and when people don't dignify that with a response, because it's intellectually simply not worth the effort.
As I saw in the signature of a poster here: "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
— Isaac Asimov
Look, when you are posting intellectual diarrhea, nobody is going to tell you you are not allowed to do that. But you have to live with it when people are annoyed, and when people don't dignify that with a response, because it's intellectually simply not worth the effort.
... and when people don't dignify that with a response, because it's intellectually simply not worth the effort.
I say that because the modern philosophy of the western European liberal and left has adopted equality of differing sexualities while conservative and far right elements still yearn for the days when they could go "Queer-bashing" with impunity. Nostalgia?
Do you have any support for this claim?
The only "Queer bashing with impunity" of any major proportion appears to be going on in the Muslim world (and I don't want to get into that!), with the Left apparently not speaking out against it all that much. Making unsubstantiated claims of this sort in order to demonize the other side only ruins what can be an otherwise interesting discussion.
I cannot take this post seriously. After all the demonising of Libtards, Leftists and Islam that has been perpertrated on this forum you are questioning me on this point.
You must all think and do the same. You must want to remain in the EU and see it 'federalise' or your views count for nil. You must want a soft judicial system or your views count for nil, etc.
After all the demonising of Libtards, Leftists and Islam...
Just as I said about conforming to the new moral 'standards' or be invalidated....
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...s-communism-controversy-4.html#post1059229414
Might have to reconsider the politeness part in my case though.
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