Leaks are Real - News is Fake

[haymarket]

Yesterday Trump told the world that yes - the leaks are real but the news is fake.

Can anybody explain that?

And better yet, can anybody offer a definition of the term FAKE NEWS that can be applied to situations regardless of ones political lean or ideology or perceptions or beliefs?

It seems to me that this term FAKE NEWS is greatly over used and abused to the point where it has no real meaning and can mean anything the user wants it to mean.

 

[Hypothetical]

sure, as far as I an tell there was no criminal wrongdoing by Flynn:

Intelligence Official: Transcripts Of Flynn's Calls Don't Show Criminal Wrongdoing : The Two-Way : NPR

nor have any ties to Russia been proven. thus any news agency that conjectures otherwise is sending out fake news, at least thus far. If that changes, I will re-examine my stance.

however, what very likely HAS happened is a breach of national security by intelligence agents releasing classified data, in order to perpetrate those leaks and disrupt the administration of a sitting president.

that could be found to be anything from a breach of national security to treason... thus a very REAL situation.

see how easily that works?

 

[haymarket]

sure, as far as I an tell there was no criminal wrongdoing by Flynn:

Intelligence Official: Transcripts Of Flynn's Calls Don't Show Criminal Wrongdoing : The Two-Way : NPR

nor have any ties to Russia been proven. thus any news agency that conjectures otherwise is sending out fake news, at least thus far. If that changes, I will re-examine my stance.

however, what very likely HAS happened is a breach of national security by intelligence agents releasing classified data, in order to perpetrate those leaks and disrupt the administration of a sitting president.

that could be found to be anything from a breach of national security to treason... thus a very REAL situation.

see how easily that works?

I was hoping you would define FAKE NEWS. Can you do that?

 

[Hypothetical]

oh ok i'm sorry.. I guess I really only tried to answer the first part of the OP...

I mean, honestly to me, I guess fake news means anything from patently false news releases to semi propaganda type news generated merely to point the masses towards feeling a certain way about a subject or person.

 

[TheGoverness]

Yesterday Trump told the world that yes - the leaks are real but the news is fake.

Can anybody explain that?

And better yet, can anybody offer a definition of the term FAKE NEWS that can be applied to situations regardless of ones political lean or ideology or perceptions or beliefs?

It seems to me that this term FAKE NEWS is greatly over used and abused to the point where it has no real meaning and can mean anything the user wants it to mean.

Fake News means whatever the hell you want it to mean.

 

[ocean515]

Yesterday Trump told the world that yes - the leaks are real but the news is fake.

Can anybody explain that?

And better yet, can anybody offer a definition of the term FAKE NEWS that can be applied to situations regardless of ones political lean or ideology or perceptions or beliefs?

It seems to me that this term FAKE NEWS is greatly over used and abused to the point where it has no real meaning and can mean anything the user wants it to mean.

Sure it can be explained.

The key, however, is that the person receiving the explanation must have the objective capacity to receive it.

Some could argue, quite successfully, that would be an impossible task here, given the key qualification is not present.

 

[haymarket]

Sure it can be explained.

The key, however, is that the person receiving the explanation must have the objective capacity to receive it.

Some could argue, quite successfully, that would be an impossible task here, given the key qualification is not present.

I was hoping you could define what FAKE NEWS was. Can you do it?

 

[haymarket]

oh ok i'm sorry.. I guess I really only tried to answer the first part of the OP...

I mean, honestly to me, I guess fake news means anything from patently false news releases to semi propaganda type news generated merely to point the masses towards feeling a certain way about a subject or person.

Thank you for your thoughts on this. I would like to ask you two follow up questions.

So a false news release would be something that is provably not true. Would you agree with that?

You then say it can include semi propaganda type news generated to point the masses towards felling certain way about a subject or person. Does that involve something that can be proven false also?

 

[ocean515]

I was hoping you could define what FAKE NEWS was. Can you do it?

Sure. There are hundreds of examples of it created every day. Dozens of people, some likely paid, some not, post them here daily.

An example of fake news would be purposefully taking a comment out of context, and then creating a whole fantasy about what that comment means.

Take President Trumps comments about the Khan family as an example. When George Stephanopoulos asked President Trump about Mr. Khans comments at the DNC, President Trump complemented the man. He simply stated he wanted to hear his wife speak and suggested maybe she wasn't allowed to. This was spun into one of the more egregious bits of unethical journalistic BS that occurred during his campaign.

You could also take his comments about Putin that have been spun into this absurd kabuki theater of conjecture and fantasy about Putin and Trump being lovers.

Certainly as an experienced political campaign consultant and educator on government you know what fake news is. Why does objectivity have such a hard time finding a toe hold in your point of views?

 

[haymarket]

Sure. There are hundreds of examples of it created every day. Dozens of people, some likely paid, some not, post them here daily.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Before you can give examples of the definition, you must first offer the definition.

Can you do that?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Yesterday Trump told the world that yes - the leaks are real but the news is fake.

Can anybody explain that?

Certainly. Trump is stating that there are members of the government who are violating their oaths of office by disseminating information in ways to undermine higher authority. That's "leaks."

The Media is then buying into the innuendo and outright lies presented by these government members as truth. That is fake news.

And better yet, can anybody offer a definition of the term FAKE NEWS that can be applied to situations regardless of ones political lean or ideology or perceptions or beliefs?

Sure.

Fake news can consist of several genres:

1. It can be reporting gossip as valid news.

2. It can be reporting an issue in a form of innuendo to smear someone else.

3. It can be slanting information to present it in the worst possible light.

4. It can be reporting unverified information as factual or truth.

5. It can be making a story up completely.

 

[ocean515]

You are putting the cart before the horse. Before you can give examples of the definition, you must first offer the definition.

Can you do that?

I did.

An example of fake news would be purposefully taking a comment out of context, and then creating a whole fantasy about what that comment means.​

As I first stated: Sure it can be explained. The key, however, is that the person receiving the explanation must have the objective capacity to receive it.

It seems you are missing that key qualifier.

I predict this tact you are taking will continue ad nauseam

 

[PeteEU]

Yesterday Trump told the world that yes - the leaks are real but the news is fake.

Can anybody explain that?

And better yet, can anybody offer a definition of the term FAKE NEWS that can be applied to situations regardless of ones political lean or ideology or perceptions or beliefs?

It seems to me that this term FAKE NEWS is greatly over used and abused to the point where it has no real meaning and can mean anything the user wants it to mean.

The term Fake News is being abused, especially by the Alt-right with Trump and Bannon in the forefront, mostly to pave over problems with the new administration and Trump himself.

Now what is fake news... it is news that is not based on facts or any sort of sources. Of course bias comes into play here, but only up to a point.

Some examples.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-story-of-mob-setting-fire-to-dortmund-church

Breitbart pushed a story about Muslims running riot, mass rapes and the burning of a church. Never happened. This was clearly fake and fabricated news. This example was so badly made by Breitbart that people quickly started to question its validity and then the local government and police came out to slam the report.

Then there was this..

Trump, Russian Spies and the Infamous ?Golden Shower Memos?

The famous golden shower story. This was quickly slammed by Trump and Co as fake news, but was it? Because of the sexual aspect of the report, the mainstream media in the US quickly fell behind the "fake news" aspect but was it? I have my doubts. Not that Trump likes golden showers.. could care less, but that this was used to discredit the report as a whole is the problem. The report actually had quite a bit of information in it, that was very plausible (especially when Putin comes out and defends Trump against the golden shower accusations...), but they have all been forgotten in the continuing fake news attack. Problem is, that we now have learned that US intelligence community have confirmed parts of the dossier... but it is now toxic, so guessing the US media wont go much further with it.

The problem with fake news is when it is used in "drive by news" on Facebook and similar places. People tend to read headlines and short form versions, and that is it. Facebook was flooded with fake news articles during the elections, by both sides yes, but the amount of fake news stories by the alt-right was astounding.

It also does not help, that fact checker sites on the internet are now under attack by the alt-right for being fake news, because they happen to expose the lies of their leader Trump.

Basically, we are all screwed, especially Americans, because we have been fed a bunch of lies and miss-information so that people dont trust anything coming out of the media or politicians, and that is a great breeding ground for populist dictators like Trump and Bannon. If they can get a loyal following, then they can feed these people any information they want and they will believe it and everything else is just "fake news" trying to hurt their dear leader. The more people they can charm, the bigger their power base.

As I see it, the only way to counter Trump and Bannon and fake news operators, is to challenge them every time they lie or promote false news. Yesterdays press conference was a start, but hardly enough. Question is if the media will continue to push against the lies and fake news coming out of the US administration or will they fall in behind the dear leader. Was good to see Fox News.. well one person on Fox News, challenge the GOP President on his lies. Question is how long he will be on the air..

 

[haymarket]

Fake news can consist of several genres:

1. It can be reporting gossip as valid news.

2. It can be reporting an issue in a form of innuendo to smear someone else.

3. It can be slanting an issue is the worst possible light.

4. It can be reporting unverified information as truth.

5. It can be making a story up completely.

Thank you for your reply and careful listing. I do appreciate it. Allow me to ask some follow up questions about your numbered items.

1 - What constitutes gossip as opposed to allegations or claims?

2- I do not know what you mean when you say reporting an issue as innuendo to smear somebody. Can you give me an example of that please?

3- Isn't slanting the news still the news? Why would a slant then make it FAKE? For example, a conservative leaning news outlet and a liberal leaning outlet can take the same event with the same facts and slant it differently for their audience. FOX can take the news conference yesterday and state that Trump confronted the liberal news media and exposed their biases and reduced them to whining and carping about him. MSNBC can take the same news conference and report that Trump was confrontational and accusatory and acted more like a candidate in a campaign than a president.

How would either slant be called FAKE NEWS?

4- Traditionally, news outlets require reporters to confirm a story through different sources if it is a matter of somebody word. If a reporter or media outlet confirms a story through several different sources, is that enough?

5 - agreed.

 

[PoS]

Fake News means whatever the hell you want it to mean.

If it doesnt agree with you then its fake.

 

[TheGoverness]

If it doesnt agree with you then its fake.

That's pretty much what it boils down to.

 

[Vetplus40]

IMHO "fake news" are comments, actions and/or events that are intentionally contorted or misconstrued to obtain a desired result.

Kelly Anne Conway's story about 'The bowling Green Massacre" is a perfect example. There was a small bit of truth in the fact that it did relate to the rationale behind recent Muslim Ban (and yes it was a ban) but grossly inaccurate relative to the facts. And despite her claims to the contrary, she didn't misspeak. She knew exactly hat she was saying. She had repeated it a few times before.

 

[tres borrachos]

IMHO "fake news" are comments, actions and/or events that are intentionally contorted or misconstrued to obtain a desired result.

Kelly Anne Conway's story about 'The bowling Green Massacre" is a perfect example. There was a small bit of truth in the fact that it did relate to the rationale behind recent Muslim Ban (and yes it was a ban) but grossly inaccurate relative to the facts. And despite her claims to the contrary, she didn't misspeak. She knew exactly hat she was saying. She had repeated it a few times before.

Yesterday Trump told the world that yes - the leaks are real but the news is fake.

Can anybody explain that?

And better yet, can anybody offer a definition of the term FAKE NEWS that can be applied to situations regardless of ones political lean or ideology or perceptions or beliefs?

It seems to me that this term FAKE NEWS is greatly over used and abused to the point where it has no real meaning and can mean anything the user wants it to mean.

I'm not sure I can define fake news but I can give you a couple of examples.

The Bowling Green Massacre. That was fake news. The 3000 Massachusetts voters being bussed into New Hampshire on election day to tip the election here to Hillary Clinton. That was fake news. The widest margin of electoral college votes victory since Reagan. That was fake news.

 

[ocean515]

The term Fake News is being abused, especially by the Alt-right with Trump and Bannon in the forefront, mostly to pave over problems with the new administration and Trump himself.

Now what is fake news... it is news that is not based on facts or any sort of sources. Of course bias comes into play here, but only up to a point.

Some examples.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-story-of-mob-setting-fire-to-dortmund-church

Breitbart pushed a story about Muslims running riot, mass rapes and the burning of a church. Never happened. This was clearly fake and fabricated news. This example was so badly made by Breitbart that people quickly started to question its validity and then the local government and police came out to slam the report.

Then there was this..

Trump, Russian Spies and the Infamous ?Golden Shower Memos?

The famous golden shower story. This was quickly slammed by Trump and Co as fake news, but was it? Because of the sexual aspect of the report, the mainstream media in the US quickly fell behind the "fake news" aspect but was it? I have my doubts. Not that Trump likes golden showers.. could care less, but that this was used to discredit the report as a whole is the problem. The report actually had quite a bit of information in it, that was very plausible (especially when Putin comes out and defends Trump against the golden shower accusations...), but they have all been forgotten in the continuing fake news attack. Problem is, that we now have learned that US intelligence community have confirmed parts of the dossier... but it is now toxic, so guessing the US media wont go much further with it.

The problem with fake news is when it is used in "drive by news" on Facebook and similar places. People tend to read headlines and short form versions, and that is it. Facebook was flooded with fake news articles during the elections, by both sides yes, but the amount of fake news stories by the alt-right was astounding.

It also does not help, that fact checker sites on the internet are now under attack by the alt-right for being fake news, because they happen to expose the lies of their leader Trump.

Basically, we are all screwed, especially Americans, because we have been fed a bunch of lies and miss-information so that people dont trust anything coming out of the media or politicians, and that is a great breeding ground for populist dictators like Trump and Bannon. If they can get a loyal following, then they can feed these people any information they want and they will believe it and everything else is just "fake news" trying to hurt their dear leader. The more people they can charm, the bigger their power base.

As I see it, the only way to counter Trump and Bannon and fake news operators, is to challenge them every time they lie or promote false news. Yesterdays press conference was a start, but hardly enough. Question is if the media will continue to push against the lies and fake news coming out of the US administration or will they fall in behind the dear leader. Was good to see Fox News.. well one person on Fox News, challenge the GOP President on his lies. Question is how long he will be on the air..

:lamo

So you define fake: "it is news that is not based on facts or any sort of sources. Of course bias comes into play here, but only up to a point."

and then you write this:

Because of the sexual aspect of the report, the mainstream media in the US quickly fell behind the "fake news" aspect but was it?​

So based on nothing but conjecture, assumption, and colossal leaps of faith, you suggest the story may be true?

You did nothing but provide an illustration of what fake news looks like.

 

[haymarket]

I did.

An example of fake news would be purposefully taking a comment out of context, and then creating a whole fantasy about what that comment means.​

NO. That is not a definition. It is your example.

Can you provide a definition of FAKE NEWS?​

 

[haymarket]

So you define fake

Fine. FAKE is something that is not real.

examples: a FAKE diamond that contains a stone that was created and is not a real diamond.

The classic SEINFELD skit where Jerry and Elaine are discussing female sexual response and Elaine Jerry that women fake orgasm all the time for the benefit of the men they are with. Jerry then wants to know if that was true when they were together and asks what about the moaning... the panting ... the heavy breathing? And Elaine replies FAKE... FAKE.... FAKE.

Would you agree that the definition for FAKE is something that is not real?

 

[haymarket]

I'm not sure I can define fake news but I can give you a couple of examples.

The Bowling Green Massacre. That was fake news. The 3000 Massachusetts voters being bussed into New Hampshire on election day to tip the election here to Hillary Clinton. That was fake news. The widest margin of electoral college votes victory since Reagan. That was fake news.

Because the event - the Bowling Green Massacre - was never REAL in the first place. Right?

 

[tres borrachos]

IMHO "fake news" are comments, actions and/or events that are intentionally contorted or misconstrued to obtain a desired result.

Kelly Anne Conway's story about 'The bowling Green Massacre" is a perfect example. There was a small bit of truth in the fact that it did relate to the rationale behind recent Muslim Ban (and yes it was a ban) but grossly inaccurate relative to the facts. And despite her claims to the contrary, she didn't misspeak. She knew exactly hat she was saying. She had repeated it a few times before.

Because the event - the Bowling Green Massacre - was never REAL in the first place. Right?

I don't know that! Kellyanne Conway claims to speak on behalf of the President. So it has to be real. Everything Trump says is the truth. You should stop listening to fake news, hay!

 

[ocean515]

NO. That is not a definition. It is your example.

Can you provide a definition of FAKE NEWS?

Apparently not to your liking. Oh well, not unexpected.

 

[ocean515]

Fine. FAKE is something that is not real.

examples: a FAKE diamond that contains a stone that was created and is not a real diamond.

The classic SEINFELD skit where Jerry and Elaine are discussing female sexual response and Elaine Jerry that women fake orgasm all the time for the benefit of the men they are with. Jerry then wants to know if that was true when they were together and asks what about the moaning... the panting ... the heavy breathing? And Elaine replies FAKE... FAKE.... FAKE.

Would you agree that the definition for FAKE is something that is not real?

I think I made it obvious I would agree with that.