Leah Remini to tackle Jehovah's Witnesses (1 Viewer)

[gfm7175]

You have not shown it's an impossibility. You have declared it, without knowledge.

I most surely have... an infinite regress is impossible because we would not be at this very moment today if an infinite regress actually existed (as in, an infinite amount of time before "today").

It makes no logical sense; it is an impossibility.

 

[gfm7175]

What is truly ironic is they can believe the universe had no beginning but God had no beginning? Not in a million years...go figure...

haha good point.

 

[RAMOSS]

I most surely have... an infinite regress is impossible because we would not be at this very moment today if an infinite regress actually existed (as in, an infinite amount of time before "today").

It makes no logical sense; it is an impossibility.

Prove that infinte regress is impossible. Then show why God is not subject to that same logic.

 

[gfm7175]

Prove that infinte regress is impossible. Then show why God is not subject to that same logic.

How would we arrive at this very moment right now if there was an actual infinite amount of time BEFORE this very moment? THAT'S the proof... It's simply impossible to go back in time forever; time must have a beginning point, and time must be caused by something that transcends it.

God is not part of the "infinite regress" chain because God was not created by anyone or anything. He transcends time.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Her works on Scientology have been fascinating. Other than the issues with denying certain medical treatment to minors I have always considered JW benign but I don’t know much about it. If she does this special the way she did her work on Scientology, interviewing actual,current and former members of the religion, it should be informative.

I am an atheist so it all seems silly to me but I do see a difference between cults and religions. The defining characteristic of a cult to me is emphasis on isolating its membership from non members, even including family members. I never thought JW did that as a rule but if that isn’t the case then I will have to reclassify them as a cult.

They make sure that their children do badly in school via various means such as sending them in late, demolorising them about school etc... It keeps them dependant upon the church and thus easy to exploit for all the fun that entails.

 

[Daisy]

They make sure that their children do badly in school via various means such as sending them in late, demolorising them about school etc... It keeps them dependant upon the church and thus easy to exploit for all the fun that entails.

I've heard some wild lies before that's one of the wildest...lol...SMH...

 

[RAMOSS]

How would we arrive at this very moment right now if there was an actual infinite amount of time BEFORE this very moment? THAT'S the proof... It's simply impossible to go back in time forever; time must have a beginning point, and time must be caused by something that transcends it.

God is not part of the "infinite regress" chain because God was not created by anyone or anything. He transcends time.

SO, suddenly you have what is known as a 'special pleading' for God. That is a flawed argument.

 

[gfm7175]

SO, suddenly you have what is known as a 'special pleading' for God. That is a flawed argument.

I'm not pleading for God... I'm saying that, since we are here at this very moment, an infinite regress is impossible or else we wouldn't be discussing this right now. You're carefully avoiding rebutting this fact and are instead focused on your laundry list of fallacies. Tell me, how would we be here right now if there was an actually infinite past-time? The beginning point of the universe, and how the universe came to be, is something that must be addressed.

 

[RAMOSS]

I'm not pleading for God... I'm saying that, since we are here at this very moment, an infinite regress is impossible or else we wouldn't be discussing this right now. You're carefully avoiding rebutting this fact and are instead focused on your laundry list of fallacies. Tell me, how would we be here right now if there was an actually infinite past-time? The beginning point of the universe, and how the universe came to be, is something that must be addressed.

Why, yes you are. You are giving God special qualities you won't give to the universe to try to attempt to get out of the same problem. You cant' show those qualities are true. Can you prove your statement about God's qualities?? How do you know that , except by 'making things up as you go along'? Show how you can objectively and tangibily show that is true.

And, the article I linked to that you dismissed addressed that subject.

 

[CLAX1911]

Leah Remini to tackle Jehovah's Witnesses in new special following 'Kevin Can Wait' cancellation | Fox News




Well, this could be fun to watch. :mrgreen:

While not quite on the same level of "you've got to be kidding me" as the Scientologists, there's plenty of crazy nonsense that can be exposed when it comes to JW's.

It makes me wonder what they're going to try and talk about first. I wish they would hammer them on the sex abuse cover-ups.

It is in there doctoring to cover it up. You're not to report child abuse unless there are two Elders that can confirm it.

 

[CLAX1911]

One man's craziness is another man's dogma.

I don't recall ever hearing of them hurting anyone.

I agree for the most part but in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses you aren't going to hear about how they hurt people because they cover it up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-42025255

 

[CLAX1911]

It's not too far fetched to suggest that many of their practices of segregating and separating their children from the outside world/local community are hurtful.

Plenty of the JW's policies could/can easily be described as brainwashing.

The something else it uses to control its members is persecution complex. There's a few videos that the organization actually did produce that speak of some sort of arresting or persecution that JW's are somehow going to suffer.

I would advise you not to slam the door in their face when they knock on your door not to abuse them just simply tell them to put you on the Do Not Call list. Such things would feed their persecution complex and when they start brainwashing younger people they will take him to those houses and save see this is what the outside world does to us.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
They make sure that their children do badly in school via various means such as sending them in late, demolorising them about school etc... It keeps them dependant upon the church and thus easy to exploit for all the fun that entails.

I've heard some wild lies before that's one of the wildest...lol...SMH...

The JW I have met and interacted with substancially were 1 a guy on my plumbing course who was functionally illiterate at the start of the course and taught himself to read and write during the course, who also was almost innumerate and I taught him long division in 5 minutes and an ex-JW who explained how his eduaction had been deliberately sabotaged.

Both of these men had achieved no qualifications from their schooling despite the very capable levels of intelligence the had.

Just as in all other things you lie haditually.

 

[Tim the plumber]

The something else it uses to control its members is persecution complex. There's a few videos that the organization actually did produce that speak of some sort of arresting or persecution that JW's are somehow going to suffer.

I would advise you not to slam the door in their face when they knock on your door not to abuse them just simply tell them to put you on the Do Not Call list. Such things would feed their persecution complex and when they start brainwashing younger people they will take him to those houses and save see this is what the outside world does to us.

I am black listed by them despite my ploicy of "come in have a cup of tea. So you believe in God then." They just don't seem to call on me.

 

[Dragonfly]

I would advise you not to slam the door in their face when they knock on your door

I never do that. Not to anyone.

 

[Daisy]

The JW I have met and interacted with substancially were 1 a guy on my plumbing course who was functionally illiterate at the start of the course and taught himself to read and write during the course, who also was almost innumerate and I taught him long division in 5 minutes and an ex-JW who explained how his eduaction had been deliberately sabotaged.

Both of these men had achieved no qualifications from their schooling despite the very capable levels of intelligence the had.

Just as in all other things you lie haditually.

And of course you know all 8 million+ of them, right? You must live in Hicksville somewhere...:roll:

 

[devildavid]

Well, there is but Revelation is a vision, meaning it represents something...the lake of fire represents eternal destruction...nevermore to exist...as with any fire, it completely burns up/destroys whatever is thrown in...

What about tha part in Revelation about the144,000? It must be symbolic as well if revelation is just a vision.

 

[gfm7175]

Why, yes you are. You are giving God special qualities you won't give to the universe to try to attempt to get out of the same problem. You cant' show those qualities are true. Can you prove your statement about God's qualities?? How do you know that , except by 'making things up as you go along'? Show how you can objectively and tangibily show that is true.

And, the article I linked to that you dismissed addressed that subject.

By asking "Who created God?", you're trying to ask me "what sound does silence make?" or "to whom is the bachelor married?" ... Who created God is an illogical question because God, by definition, is the uncreated creator of the universe.

Time is linked to matter and space, so if matter and space were created, time was also created. The creator of those things would have to transcend those things, and that is how Christians define their God. "spaceless, timeless, immaterial, personal, intelligent mind, etc. etc."

So again, if the Christian God is defined as "timeless", which he is, then how can you logically ask "Who created God"?

The universe, on the other hand, had a beginning, which is supported by the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[devildavid]

I'm not pleading for God... I'm saying that, since we are here at this very moment, an infinite regress is impossible or else we wouldn't be discussing this right now. You're carefully avoiding rebutting this fact and are instead focused on your laundry list of fallacies. Tell me, how would we be here right now if there was an actually infinite past-time? The beginning point of the universe, and how the universe came to be, is something that must be addressed.

What is God if not an infinite regress? Therefore, according to you, God is philosophically impossible.

 

[devildavid]

By asking "Who created God?", you're trying to ask me "what sound does silence make?" or "to whom is the bachelor married?" ... Who created God is an illogical question because God, by definition, is the uncreated creator of the universe.

Time is linked to matter and space, so if matter and space were created, time was also created. The creator of those things would have to transcend those things, and that is how Christians define their God. "spaceless, timeless, immaterial, personal, intelligent mind, etc. etc."

So again, if the Christian God is defined as "timeless", which he is, then how can you logically ask "Who created God"?

The universe, on the other hand, had a beginning, which is supported by the laws of thermodynamics.

Who defined god?

 

[RAMOSS]

By asking "Who created God?", you're trying to ask me "what sound does silence make?" or "to whom is the bachelor married?" ... Who created God is an illogical question because God, by definition, is the uncreated creator of the universe.

Time is linked to matter and space, so if matter and space were created, time was also created. The creator of those things would have to transcend those things, and that is how Christians define their God. "spaceless, timeless, immaterial, personal, intelligent mind, etc. etc."

So again, if the Christian God is defined as "timeless", which he is, then how can you logically ask "Who created God"?

The universe, on the other hand, had a beginning, which is supported by the laws of thermodynamics.

Where did I ask that?

And, did the universe have a beginning? The article I linked to says not.

 

[Daisy]

What about tha part in Revelation about the144,000? It must be symbolic as well if revelation is just a vision.

Well no, because that same chapter mentions ONE Lamb seated on the throne, so we know the 144,000 SEALED, is a literal number...John also mentions a great crowd, which no one is able to number, showing a contrast...that is where a person's discernment comes in...that is, if they've got any...

British lexicographer Dr. Ethelbert W. Bullinger observed some 100 years ago: “It is the simple statement of fact: a definite number in contrast with the indefinite number in this very chapter.” (The Apocalypse or “The Day of the Lord,” page 282) More recently, Robert L. Thomas, Jr., professor of New Testament at The Master’s Seminary in the United States, wrote: “The case for symbolism is exegetically weak.” He added: “It is a definite number [at 7:4] in contrast with the indefinite number of 7:9. If it is taken symbolically, no number in the book can be taken literally.”​—Revelation: An Exegetical Commentary, Volume 1, page 474.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004647?q=144,000+literal&p=par

 

[gfm7175]

What is God if not an infinite regress? Therefore, according to you, God is philosophically impossible.

God is not an infinite regress because he doesn't exist inside of the time dimension. In other words, a "timeless" state of existence is not infinitely regressing because existence outside of time is not regression, but rather, it just "is". This also explains how God can "see the end from the beginning"... Since he transcends time, he can see any and all points of time at an instant.

When you open up a movie on your CPU, you can see the end of the movie (and any other point of it) at an instant, and you can see the end of the movie from the very beginning of it. The characters inside the movie don't know how their lives are going to end up, or what's going to happen, but you (as the outside viewer of the movie) know the end from the beginning and can instantly jump to any point in time.

This is a rough explanation of how God exists in comparison to us, and why God isn't an infinite regress... He is like the movie viewer; we are like the characters inside the movie. It's just a matter of perspective and dimension.

 

[devildavid]

Well no, because that same chapter mentions ONE Lamb seated on the throne, so we know the 144,000 SEALED, is a literal number...John also mentions a great crowd, which no one is able to number, showing a contrast...that is where a person's discernment comes in...that is, if they've got any...

British lexicographer Dr. Ethelbert W. Bullinger observed some 100 years ago: “It is the simple statement of fact: a definite number in contrast with the indefinite number in this very chapter.” (The Apocalypse or “The Day of the Lord,” page 282) More recently, Robert L. Thomas, Jr., professor of New Testament at The Master’s Seminary in the United States, wrote: “The case for symbolism is exegetically weak.” He added: “It is a definite number [at 7:4] in contrast with the indefinite number of 7:9. If it is taken symbolically, no number in the book can be taken literally.”​—Revelation: An Exegetical Commentary, Volume 1, page 474.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004647?q=144,000+literal&p=par

And there is literally one literal lamb? Do to know that numbers are used symbolically in the bible? Does forgive seventy times seven ring a bell? So we only have to forgive literally 490 times?

 

[Daisy]

And there is literally one literal lamb? Do to know that numbers are used symbolically in the bible? Does forgive seventy times seven ring a bell? So we only have to forgive literally 490 times?

Swwoosh...right over your head...why do I bother?