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Killing coyotes results in....

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

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more coyotes, for one thing.

In biological shorthand: Kill too many coyotes and you open a Pandora's box of disease-carrying rodents, meadow-munching rabbits, bird-eating feral cats, and, over time, smarter, more abundant coyotes. You also can sentence the deer you are trying to help to slow death by starvation.
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It seems simple and intuitive: Kill the predators, and the prey will prosper. Nature, however, isn't that simple. Pick up anything in nature, and you find it is attached to everything else.
 
I think it would be hard to say if killing coyotes actually hurts of helps the coyote population.
The Coyotes seem to have integrated themselves into city life just fine.
I guess most of the ones who get caught in traps are the slow (not so bright) ones
leaving the smart ones to breed.
Resulting in, dare I say whiley coyotes!:)
 
Dittohead not! said:
more coyotes, for one thing.



It seems simple and intuitive: Kill the predators, and the prey will prosper. Nature, however, isn't that simple. Pick up anything in nature, and you find it is attached to everything else.
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As with everything in life there is a pro and a con. Nothing is ever really that simple.
 
Kal'Stang said:
As with everything in life there is a pro and a con. Nothing is ever really that simple.
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No, it's not.

And yet, the killing of predators in order to help the prey still goes on, and in all likelihood won't stop any time soon despite evidence that it is actually counterproductive.
 
I believe that it was president Roosevelt that brought this to light in a big way. Being an avid hunter who wanted to increase the US elk population, he went on a wolf reduction campaign. After large numbers of predators were removed the elk population plummeted, the result of overpopulation which lead to sickness and starvation in mass.

I cannot believe they are still trying this tactic today. It is basic wildlife conservation 101.
 
So, does this mean we should start shooting wolves to help them repopulate?
 
So, basically, if your goal is to preserve nature, your best bet is to get out of the way and leave it the **** alone?

Or possibly, be really damned careful when you make a change.
 
This is my favorite part:

"We've raised a super race of coyotes," said Bill Jensen, a sheep rancher in Marin County. "There is nothing more cunning than these things now."



OH NO, NOT SUPER COYOTES! GOD HELP US ALL!
 
I thought the Denali (AK) study settled this ages ago?

When man first got there, he started reducing the wolf population to save the caribou. But what happened was the caribou herds actually got smaller and were less healthy than before. The reason? The wolves had been culling the herd, killing and eating the lame, weak, and, slow letting the more healthy robust caribou live without the added competition from the "weaklings". When they left the wolf population alone to achieve a natural balance again, the caribou herds also got larger and improved, able to survive bad winters and shortages of food better than before, when the wolf population was being "controlled". Moral of the story? Let nature do her thing! She's been at it a hell of a lot longer than we have.


For those who think a little farther down the road think about this the next time you swat a fly. You have taken on the role of "culling the herd", making the next generation of flies just that much faster than the last. ;)
 
As I understand it though Coyotes have unnaturally exploded in population because they are extremely efficient scavengers that have been using human habitats to fuel their expansion.

They have expanded coast to coast whereas before they were mostly found in the forests of North Western America and South Western Canada.

On my nightshift I see alot of Coyotes just running around town, I think if there needs to be a culling, it needs to be in a case by case basis, area by area.

But I think my national park could benefit for one.
 
**** a bunch of cat killing coyotes!

Pet killing scum.
 
Jetboogieman said:
As I understand it though Coyotes have unnaturally exploded in population because they are extremely efficient scavengers that have been using human habitats to fuel their expansion.

They have expanded coast to coast whereas before they were mostly found in the forests of North Western America and South Western Canada.

On my nightshift I see alot of Coyotes just running around town, I think if there needs to be a culling, it needs to be in a case by case basis, area by area.

But I think my national park could benefit for one.
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I don't know how it is in Klingon Space, but here in California there are a lot more coyotes than there were before humans wiped out the wolf population.
 
Jetboogieman said:
They're animals dude.

I lived in South Africa, I wouldn't get mad at Lions for eating my cats, they're ****ing lions.
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I don't get mad at them until they come up into established suburbs.

They come TO prey on pets. Bastards. They have adapted to us, and now large predators are up in the hood taking animals the size of babies.

But I still don't want them exterminated.

I would prefer to start a service where for a fee you "deter" them from coming into neighborhoods.

With night vision and paintballs!

Out in the wild let nature take its course.
 
What if...? said:
I don't get mad at them until they come up into established suburbs.

They come TO prey on pets. Bastards. They have adapted to us, and now large predators are up in the hood taking animals the size of babies.

But I still don't want them exterminated.

I would prefer to start a service where for a fee you "deter" them from coming into neighborhoods.

With night vision and paintballs!

Out in the wild let nature take its course.
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Skunk scent would probably work better - just don't miss. ;)
 
Here is an Idea, I wonder if we can get the coyotes to develop a taste for nutria?
In my part of Texas the coyotes are small (less than 60 lbs),
But I understand in some areas they get over 100 lbs.
That is very dangerous.
 
longview said:
Here is an Idea, I wonder if we can get the coyotes to develop a taste for nutria?
In my part of Texas the coyotes are small (less than 60 lbs),
But I understand in some areas they get over 100 lbs.
That is very dangerous.
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Most wild coyotes aren't very big. 60 pounds seems to me to be stretching it, but I'm not sure. My dog weighs 60 pounds, and she looks bigger than any coyote I've seen.

Sometimes, coyotes breed with dogs and produce coyote/dog hybrids that are bigger than natural coyotes.
 
Around here we hunt coyotes in a big way. Pretty much you see one, you shoot one. They are primarily mousers if out away from humans but very opportunistic around humans. I've seen them run through small towns at first light. I've lost 'bummer' lambs right outside the back door, their guts alone eaten, 6 in one swoop one morning. My vote is they don't come into town for free cats but rather free garbage.

Coyotes have their own disease problems, mange being a biggie around here, have shot several with scarcely a hair on their bodies.

Birds of prey are protected, we seem blessed with more than our fair share of owls and hawks so I don't think we are in any danger of being over run with diseased mice or rabbits.

Not so sure if constant hunting 'evolves' a smarter coyote. Doesn't in any hunted species I have gone after, young and dumb just doesn't seem to be one of those things you can breed out of a species. Only if they survive that first year does an individual of the species become 'smarter', more like warier or more cunning.

I shoot young coyotes using the same methods year after year. They are not getting any smarter. Evolution takes a bit longer than that... :peace
 
Hello

I studied wolves as a wildlife biologist and coyote society is not much different in this day and age. Killing one or two coyotes except perhaps in western mountain or plains states only causes increased reproduction in the family group the next year. As someone has already pointed out it also causes an increase in vermin and the likely hood of disease.

Wolves and coyotes are not vicious killers they are carnivores, they eat meat. They are also opportunists they take advantage of situaitons presented to them which will result in a lower expenditure of energy than they would normally have to make. that is why some turn to killing livestock its easier. An example, if you saw a hundred dollar bill on the road would you take it? Of course and it would be easier than working for it. Man has placed a vunerable food source in thier territory. Are some going to take advantage. Well YAHHHH so would you.

Although there is no "balance of nature" wolves and coyotes cull the sick the infirm and the weak and the young of their natural prey species. This keeps the herds healthy and helps prevent overpopulation (See Kiabab Plateau study). Less wolves or coyotes does not mean more deer or whatever, it means sicker and less big game.

Anyhow. the culling of predators is occassionally necessary but let the people who understand the dynamics of populations decide when that is necessary and not the moronic politicians or the hysterical public

Thanks

Wolfman 24
 
Hello

The Kiabab Plateau incident in the SW US is a perfect example of the disfunctional idea of eliminating predators to increase prey

Wolfman 24
 
wolfman24 said:
Hello

I studied wolves as a wildlife biologist and coyote society is not much different in this day and age. Killing one or two coyotes except perhaps in western mountain or plains states only causes increased reproduction in the family group the next year. As someone has already pointed out it also causes an increase in vermin and the likely hood of disease.

Wolves and coyotes are not vicious killers they are carnivores, they eat meat. They are also opportunists they take advantage of situaitons presented to them which will result in a lower expenditure of energy than they would normally have to make. that is why some turn to killing livestock its easier. An example, if you saw a hundred dollar bill on the road would you take it? Of course and it would be easier than working for it. Man has placed a vunerable food source in thier territory. Are some going to take advantage. Well YAHHHH so would you.

Although there is no "balance of nature" wolves and coyotes cull the sick the infirm and the weak and the young of their natural prey species. This keeps the herds healthy and helps prevent overpopulation (See Kiabab Plateau study). Less wolves or coyotes does not mean more deer or whatever, it means sicker and less big game.

Anyhow. the culling of predators is occassionally necessary but let the people who understand the dynamics of populations decide when that is necessary and not the moronic politicians or the hysterical public

Thanks

Wolfman 24
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Absolutely. Scientific game management is better than political game management any time.
 
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