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Kill Jews, Get Your Own State

In my political discussion email group, we have four Libertarians. Two are hardcore Trump supporters and sound indistinguishable from MAGA. One of the remaining two voted for Trump and the other leaned in his direction. I don’t understand why so many Libertarians support Trump, but then I’m not a Libertarian. I’m a non-interventionist Conservative who models himself after past Republicans like Dwight Eisenhower and Robert Taft. The best members of Congress in my lifetime were Libertarian Republicans like Massie, Ron Paul, and Justin Amash or non-interventionist Conservative Republicans like former Representatives Jimmy Duncan and John Hostettler. Btw, Paul, Duncan, and Hostettler were three of only six House Republicans to vote “no” on giving George W. Bush authorization to invade Iraq way back in 2002.

Mark

I'm generally in agreement with Amash, Paul, Massie as to foreign policy...

But none of them satisfy my tastes as to 'government secrecy' [they need to be much much much LOUDER, urgent, etc.]...routine secretive regime change operations, etc. secretive/obfuscated foreign [and domestic] policies will NEVER be a part of any sane decent honest intelligent etc. government:

"I saw a video clip of Julian Assange speaking in London in 2010 where he made an important observation while explaining the philosophy behind his work with WikiLeaks. He said that all our political theories are to some extent “bankrupt” in our current situation, because our institutions are so shrouded in secrecy that we can’t even know what’s really going on in the world.

“We can all write about our political issues, we can all push for particular things we believe in, we can all have particular brands of politics, but I say actually it’s all bankrupt,” Assange said. “And the reason it’s all bankrupt, and all current political theories are bankrupt and particular lines of political thought, is because actually we don’t know what the hell is going on. And until we know the basic structures of our institutions — how they operate in practice, these titanic organizations, how they behave inside, not just through stories but through vast amounts of internal documentations — until we know that, how can we possibly make a diagnosis? How can we set the direction to go until we know where we are? We don’t even have a map of where we are. So our first task is to build up a sort of intellectual heritage that describes where we are. And once we know where we are, then we have a hope of setting course for a different direction. Until then, I think all political theories — to greater and lesser extents of course — are bankrupt.”

It’s an extremely important point if you think about it: how can we form theories about how our governments should be operating when we have no idea how they are currently operating? How can a doctor prescribe the correct treatment when he hasn’t yet made a diagnosis?

Political theories are in this sense “bankrupt”, because they are formed in the dark, without our being able to see precisely what’s happening and what’s going wrong.


The nature of our institutions is hidden from us, and that includes not only our government institutions but the political, media, corporate and financial institutions which control so much of our society. Their nature is hidden not only by a complete lack of transparency but by things like propaganda, internet censorship, Silicon Valley algorithm manipulation, and the fact that all the most loudly amplified voices in our society are those who more or less support status quo politics..."

 
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"...if jesus saves he'd better save his name from the murderously retarded Zionist 'Christians' :rolleyes: :poop: using his name in death..." [h. e. Tull]

"...Netanyahu has a history of seeing terror attacks as opportunities to exploit. When asked about the impact of 9/11 on U.S. relations with Israel, according to the New York Times, Netanyahu said of the traumatic event, “It is very good.” He then added, “Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy,” meaning it will make Americans more sympathetic to Israelis. The Zionists had hoped for decades to use American military muscle to eliminate obstacles to the unfolding dream of a Greater Israel. (The First Gulf War had been insufficiently pursued by George H.W. Bush and was viewed as a missed opportunity.)

After 9/11, the American political/military/foreign policy establishment, driven by Zionist Christians and conservatives, proceeded to wreck Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Lebanon. Iran is a work in process. The other countries in the region have been bought off and/or subjugated in one way or another (a subject for another article). Only the impecunious Houthis in tiny Yemen have somehow withstood the U.S.-Israeli onslaught, though they have been degraded and their country wrecked...."

 
"...if jesus saves he'd better save his name from the murderously retarded Zionist 'Christians' :rolleyes: :poop: using his name in death..." [h. e. Tull]

"...Netanyahu has a history of seeing terror attacks as opportunities to exploit. When asked about the impact of 9/11 on U.S. relations with Israel, according to the New York Times, Netanyahu said of the traumatic event, “It is very good.” He then added, “Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy,” meaning it will make Americans more sympathetic to Israelis. The Zionists had hoped for decades to use American military muscle to eliminate obstacles to the unfolding dream of a Greater Israel. (The First Gulf War had been insufficiently pursued by George H.W. Bush and was viewed as a missed opportunity.)

After 9/11, the American political/military/foreign policy establishment, driven by Zionist Christians and conservatives, proceeded to wreck Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Lebanon. Iran is a work in process. The other countries in the region have been bought off and/or subjugated in one way or another (a subject for another article). Only the impecunious Houthis in tiny Yemen have somehow withstood the U.S.-Israeli onslaught, though they have been degraded and their country wrecked...."


Ah, the ZOG "Zionist Occupation Government raises its head.
 
From its inception, Hamas has overseen a social welfare network that appears to have aided its popularity among Palestinians while serving ..

Recent reports indicate that Hamas-run municipalities in Gaza have taken initial steps to address infrastructure damage, including clearing rubble and repairing roads
LOL. Where's the proof?
 
If you want to make blanket statements about Israel's positions, then their longstanding positions are relevant.



Perhaps their current position. It certainly has not always been their position.



I provided 20 year old facts.



Then you should make it clear that you are only referring to today. If you make misleading statements about Israel's past, people are likely to speak up and correct you.
No Blanket statement made.
I posted an article of Israels stance today. ON the 2 state solution. Did you read that? Today.

Netanyahu is president of Israel today. What he says happens. Not what some dead person said 20 yrs ago.
 
No Blanket statement made.
If you do not specify then you are making a blanket statement.


I posted an article of Israels stance today. ON the 2 state solution. Did you read that? Today.
Netanyahu is president of Israel today. What he says happens.
I've already agreed that Israel today is no longer willing to allow a Palestinian state.


Not what some dead person said 20 yrs ago.
Since when are Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert dead???
 
I was just trying to hunt up an old map of the E1 block that I remember from long ago. Unfortunately I was unable to find it. Drat! That particular map would be useful and informative to have right now.

But... I did happen across maps of the offers made by Ehud Barack in 2001 and Ehud Olmert in 2008. So I can give you those:

Ehud Barack in 2001

Ehud Olmert in 2008
Is Netanyahu working towards either of those maps?
And who will control the land?

I have never denied there were 2 state offers on the table. I only state that may have been the case 20 yrs ago.
But that is not the case today, with Netanyahu
 
If you do not specify then you are making a blanket statement.



I've already agreed that Israel today is no longer willing to allow a Palestinian state.



Since when are Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert dead???
I don't believe you.
What failed in each of those cases.
What was attempted 20, 30, 40 yrs ago, doesn't bear much weight today.


...

HIGHLIGHTS​

  • Israel’s “clear and repeated rejection” of the two-State solution “is unacceptable”, said UN Secretary-General António Guterres, adding that “this refusal, and the denial of the right to statehood to the Palestinian people, would indefinitely prolong a conflict that has become a major threat to global peace and security.”
  • Council members roundly called for the two-State solution to be realized and for an end to the war, with many calling for an immediate ceasefire to end the suffering of Palestinians and allow the aid they urgently need to be delivered unhindered
  • Many speakers from the wider UN membership echoed those calls
  • “Stop this massacre,” said the Deputy Prime Minister of Jordan
  • “We are running out of time. There are two choices: a spreading fire or a ceasefire,” said the Foreign Affairs Minister for the Observer State of Palestine
  • Israel’s Ambassador said if the Council continues to provide aid to Gaza without considering the Iranian threat, the world faces “a very dark future”

I can't get any more specific than a link to an article detailing my point.
 
Is Netanyahu working towards either of those maps?
Not anymore.


And who will control the land?
Palestinians would have controlled Palestinian land. Israelis would have controlled Israeli land.


I have never denied there were 2 state offers on the table. I only state that may have been the case 20 yrs ago.
But that is not the case today, with Netanyahu
Not anymore at least.
 
I can't get any more specific than a link to an article detailing my point.
Most of what I have to say about the UN cannot be printed in polite society.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel says: "We're sick and tired of this. Time for war, not peace."
UN says: "Look at those horrible Jews refusing to make peace."
 
Most of what I have to say about the UN cannot be printed in polite society.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel says: "We're sick and tired of this. Time for war, not peace."
UN says: "Look at those horrible Jews refusing to make peace."
Today. Israel and the PM, say no 2 state solution. Ever.
What was 20 yrs ago not relevant today.
 
Most of what I have to say about the UN cannot be printed in polite society.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel offers peace.
Palestinians rape and murder Israelis.

Israel says: "We're sick and tired of this. Time for war, not peace."
UN says: "Look at those horrible Jews refusing to make peace."
Today. Israel and the PM, say no 2 state solution. Ever.
What was 20 yrs ago not relevant today.
He is right to say it given the circumstances.



Nonsense.
LOL. Great come back.
 
That's exactly what Israel is saying.

But apparently they are not saying it loud enough for the Palestinians to hear, so Israel is going to have to say it even louder.
Can you sleep at night when children are starving to death?
 
So all Palestinians are terrorists. Just like how Germans decided all Jews were vermin.
Nothing at all like that.

The Jews in the 1930s and 1940s did nothing to deserve the lies that were told about them. (Exactly like Israel today has done nothing to deserve the lies that are told about them.)

IF I decide to make a blanket condemnation of all Palestinians, it will be based on the actual actions of all (or at least most) Palestinians.

IF I decide to make a blanket condemnation of all Muslims, it will be based on the actual actions of all (or at least most) Muslims.
 
If the Palestinians are hungry then they should release the hostages.
Israel should leave Gaza Palestinians alone. Instead of blocking food and medical aide.

It's cruel to purposely cause all that suffering. Why do you support suffering of innocents? Kinda sick to defend that kind of human treatment.
 
Israel should leave Gaza Palestinians alone.
That is incorrect. Israel should continue to defend themselves and secure the release of the hostages.


Instead of blocking food and medical aide.
If Israel is even blocking the aid.


It's cruel to purposely cause all that suffering. Why do you support suffering of innocents? Kinda sick to defend that kind of human treatment.
If you want to end the suffering, then release the hostages.

If you don't want to release the hostages, then not only is the war is going to continue, but Israel is about to dramatically escalate the war.
 
So all Palestinians are terrorists. Just like how Germans decided all Jews were vermin.

Ime, the fantasy world of the murderously retarded neocons is crashing down upon them... somewhat slowly for my tastes....but crashing...
 
Ime, the fantasy world of the murderously retarded neocons is crashing down upon them... somewhat slowly for my tastes....but crashing...
Is it though? They're moving forward with the liquidation of Gaza.
 
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