Kerry apologizes

[aps]

1. His comments about Viet Nam Veterans in 1971....I don't have to repeat them do I?

2. His comments that our troops in Iraq break into innocent families homes in the middle of the night terrorizing them when in fact they are just doing their jobs when getting tips that terrorists may be hiding there........They just don't arbitrarily break into people homes without casue.....

3. And now this latest outrageous comment...

I would like to give him the benefit of a doubt and just say he is stupid but I don't really believe that....

1. His comments are true. People who served in Vietnam committed some bad acts. Tell me how that is badmouthing the military. It's TRUE!

2. Same as above. There are soldiers who have committed crimes and have plead guilty. How can acknowledging this be badmouthing the troops? Troops are not perfect, you know. They raped and killed a young girl and her family.

3. See all my posts in this thread.

If this is how you feel about Kerry based upon these 3 instances, will you agree that George Allen is a racist?

 

[easyt65]

1. His comments are true. People who served in Vietnam committed some bad acts. Tell me how that is badmouthing the military. It's TRUE!

His comments, with all due respect to you, are BS! He said he had personally witnessed war crimes, even declared he had helped burn villages. He said he wanted to speak on behalf of all Veterans and servicemen - the same men and women he called an 'anathema', who he called un-educated, as well as the 'blacks and browns' who were in and would join a voluntary military causing that military to become an 'anathema'! Here's the REAL TRUTH:

Kerry said:I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

There are many things wrong with this statement. The "investigation" did not check the background of those "150 honorably discharged... veterans." Others have since done so, after a Congressionally ordered investigation failed to substantiate even one of the allegations! Many of those "veterans" had never been to Vietnam. Some had never even served. Others could not possibly have been present at the events they testified to. And he sure as hell didn't represent "all those veterans."

http://www.tinyvital.com/BlogArchives/000799.html

blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties
Absolutely false. Blacks had an almost perfectly representative percentage of the casualties.

Kerry went to Saigon and told this to a member of the news bureau there and I said, "Look, you have got to tell the American people this story." The response was, "Well, I can't write that kind of thing. I can't criticize that much because if I do I would lose my accreditation, and we have to be very careful about just how much we say and when."

He admits to violating his oath as an officer, considering his judgment to be superior than that of Admiral Elmo Zumwalt. Considering the number of negative reports that were filed from Vietnam after Tet 1968, it is highly probably that he is lying about the response of the reporter. The press of 1969 or 1970 would have jumped on any story like that.

 

[Tashah]

Kerry only apologized because his party forced him to. In all facets of this episode, Kerry verified for everyone just how disgusting a person he really is.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

A) I heard it live in context.

Oh, I am sure you did.:lol:

B) He quantified that statment by saying he "was either faking or off his meads," and that statment is not off base due to the fact that Fox has infact admitted to not taking his meds when appearing in public in order to garner sympathy for stem sell research advocates.

That is irrelevant though. Anyone who took the normal psychological development path in early childhood, and thus developed a conscience, would realize that on his meds or off of them, Fox was still showing the effects of Parkinsons and as a result, putting a personal face on the issue. Moreover, he was not off his meds.

Your argument is like saying that Saint Jude picks out only the kids that look sick for its fundraisers. Fox has Parkinsons. Parkinsons is a very debilitating and eventually fatal disease. Any conscionable individual can easily see that what Limbaugh said, in any context, is a very heartless and personal attack on anyone living with Parkinsons or their family. To add insult to injury, his apology was just the kind of apology that one would expect out of a sociopath like Limbaugh. The fact that you would sit here and defend him is unbelievable. Limbaugh time and time again has shown himself to be a narcissistic unconscionable dick. Once again, I readily admit that Kerry is an elitist out of touch snob. Why won't you admit that Limbaugh is a narcissistic dick?

 

[easyt65]

Kerry only apologized because his party forced him to. In all facets of this episode, Kerry verified for everyone just how disgusting a person he really is.

Kerry hasn't apologized yet -- his handlers just posted some BS about him apologizing.

The military members, our fallen heroes, and their families that he insulted on TV in front of the nation deserve more of an apology than some bulletin board memo posted on a web page by a web technician and a PR staff writer!

 

[F41]

The only hatred I see is yours. Bye bye. :2wave:

I re-read through all my posts and no where could I find I was full of hate. Maybe disgust, but not hate.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Because I don't believe he has disdain for the people in the military. John Kerry lost the election by 100,000 votes.

Kerry lost by over three million votes.

 

[Iriemon]

His comments, with all due respect to you, are BS! He said he had personally witnessed war crimes, even declared he had helped burn villages. He said he wanted to speak on behalf of all Veterans and servicemen - the same men and women he called an 'anathema', who he called un-educated, as well as the 'blacks and browns' who were in and would join a voluntary military causing that military to become an 'anathema'! Here's the REAL TRUTH:

Arguing is a lot easier when you just up facts as you go along. Note how Easyt65 states what people supposedly said, but doesn't actually quote them or give a source to their statements. There is a reason for this. He continually misrepresents and fabricates what people say in order to try to make a point.

Easyt65 in another thread just a couple weeks ago made this same claim, asserting that Kerry swore under oath that he personally witnessed atrocities, which is a fabrication.

I called Easyt65 on it then, and I proved what Kerry said with actual quotes and citations to his statements. Kerry never even used the word "atrocities" in his sworn statement, much less swore that he saw them occurring. I gave Easyt65 the citation to Kerry's sworn senate statement so he could back up his claim with what Kerry actually said. And as usual, rather than defending his false assertions or admitting he misquoted Kerry, Easyt65 cut-n-ran and disappeared from further discussion.

Of course, the fact that he was shown the truth and knows he is stating lies doesn't stop him from making the same misrepresentations all over again here.

For those who care about the truth, here's my post with links to sources of Kerry's actual statements, as opposed to Easyt65's say-so, on Kerry's personally witnessing atrocities.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/417576-post65.html

Another fabrication the the statment above is Easyt65's assertion that Kerry "said he wanted to speak on behalf of all Veterans and servicemen." Of course Easyt65 did not actually quote Kerry of give a source -- he can't because he knows it's fault. To the contry, Kerry indicated in his testimony he was representing a group of veterans not all veterans and soldiers.

For those who care about the truth, here is Kerry's actual statement:

Kerry: "Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator Symington, Senator Pell. I would like to say for the record, and also for the men behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony."

Nowhere does Kerry say he represents ALL veterans. Obviously not, since ALL veterans where not opposed to the Vietnam war.

What was Kerry referring to when he said "the group"? You have to read the preliminary statement made just before Kerry began speaking.

"Senator Javits: Mr. Chairman, I was down there to the veterans' camp yesterday and saw the New York group and I would like to say I am very proud of the deportment and general attitude of the group."

Obvoiusly Kerry is talking about veterans in the group, at most those who opposed the vietnam war. Obviously, we was not speaking on behalf of all veterans.

Kerry made this clear an an interview on the Dick Cavett show later that year:

"and I can't even pretend to speak for all the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, let alone speak for all the men who served in Vietnam, and neither in fact can anybody else pretend to speak for a majority. That's entirely in the impossible range"

MR. KERRY: Well, as to my being a liar, I – in my testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee I did indeed say what he said. I said I represent one of the group of one thousand, which incidentally was one thousand at any one time. There were some two thousand who came through the whole time we were in Washington. And when I referred to the very much larger group within the country, I referred to our membership of our organization. I didn't say a majority; I didn't say all veterans; I said to a very much larger group, which is the some 20,000 members that we have in the country at this particular moment. And that was my reference there.

You can find a transcript of the Cavett interview at http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/i...pic=KerryONeill

 

[easyt65]

There's that toilet flushing sound again! Hmmmm..... :rofl

Kelzi says I should just ignore your moronic, childish, BS posts and not to point out that you are an annoying Liar that starts stuff like this just to get people off topic and spending pages after pages in playing your childish BS games/insults, so I am gonna listen to her!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Your argument is like saying that Saint Jude picks out only the kids that look sick for its fundraisers. Fox has Parkinsons. Parkinsons is a very debilitating and eventually fatal disease. Any conscionable individual can easily see that what Limbaugh said, in any context, is a very heartless and personal attack on anyone living with Parkinsons or their family.

Human shield bullshit, if he didn't want to be critisized then he shouldn't have entered the political fray, if you're going to go out there and say that Republicans want to keep you sick then you damn sure better be prepared for a response.

 

[DivineComedy]

Kerry only apologized because his party forced him to. In all facets of this episode, Kerry verified for everyone just how disgusting a person he really is.

If it was a joke, it is still demeaning, it is still a joke demeaning the intelligence of anyone against the lukewarm endless “Liberal” arts of war of Kerry advocated containment. Considering, the cease-fire, the Biden-Lugar amendment to the use of force that Kerry preferred, without WMD, there was still a need to either appease or contain Iraq indefinitely:

“H
32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism;
I
33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);” http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

I am sure that every single Kerry supporter agrees that if anyone wants to finish an already existing WAR, and have an end to WAR, and gets stuck, they must be stupid.

I would prefer to try and give Iraqis a chance at enfranchisement, and free the slaves; if we fail to break the bonds of tyranny, and they can't have a republican form of government, Democrats can always contain them until another response to their containment:

One Iraq, Two Iraq, Three Iraq!

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Human shield bullshit, if he didn't want to be critisized then he shouldn't have entered the political fray, if you're going to go out there and say that Republicans want to keep you sick then you damn sure better be prepared for a response.

That is not the point TOT. If you don’t get it, then unfortunately, maybe you skipped the conscience development process as well.

If Rush wanted to criticize Embryonic Stem Cell Research, then that is fine. If Rush wanted to say that Fox did not know what he was talking about, then that is fine. If Rush wanted to say that Fox was just doing this to support a Democrat, then that is fine.

What Rush did though was say that Fox was shameless and faking or exaggerating his symptoms. That is what any decent individual would see as unconscionable. Think about it this way, what if you like millions of Americans had Parkinsons. You would be taking medications that help with the symptoms to where you can function, but the side effects of many of those medications is in many ways comparable to chemo therapy side effects. Moreover, your disease would be hopelessly degenerative. No matter what you did, you would know that one day, maybe in just 5 years, maybe if you are very lucky 15 years or so, you are going to be reduced to a near vegetative state. Basically, you very well could end up living the last 20 to 30 years of your life, lying in a near vegetative state, unable to even so much as respond to your loved ones, not even having bowl control any longer, essentially a prisoner of your own body.

That is what Michael J. Fox has to look forward to. Can you imagine having that to look forward to, and then for some blowhard, junkie, narcissistic jackass, who is such a miserable person that he has went through 3 wives so far, implying that you were faking or exaggerating your symptoms? And then, to add insult to injury, when finally forced to apologize, giving a qualified apology, which in essence is just an insult again.

You are going to defend that? Come one. Once again, I will readily admit that John Kerry is a elitist snob, and really just an opportunistic bad person in general. Why will you not admit that Limbaugh is a narcissistic ***?

 

[Navy Pride]

1. His comments are true. People who served in Vietnam committed some bad acts. Tell me how that is badmouthing the military. It's TRUE!

2. Same as above. There are soldiers who have committed crimes and have plead guilty. How can acknowledging this be badmouthing the troops? Troops are not perfect, you know. They raped and killed a young girl and her family.

3. See all my posts in this thread.

If this is how you feel about Kerry based upon these 3 instances, will you agree that George Allen is a racist?

1. Well I served in Vietnam and so did a lot of my friends and I know of no one who raped, murdered and pillaged..There were some people that did that but you can't paint every Vietnam Vet with the same brush.....Because of his outrageous comments Vietnam vets were spit on and insulted when they cam back........

2. No soldiers have pleaded guilty to what Kerry said..........There were isolated cases where soldiers committed crimes and they will be pusnished for that.........We have 140,000 troops in Iraq and again tou can't paint them all with the same brush.......

3. I have and how you can still defend him is beyond me.....

 

[Navy Pride]

Kerry only apologized because his party forced him to. In all facets of this episode, Kerry verified for everyone just how disgusting a person he really is.

Thank you and you are hardly a right wing conservative.......

 

[Iriemon]

1. Well I served in Vietnam and so did a lot of my friends and I know of no one who raped, murdered and pillaged...

How many women, Vietnamese, and villiages were on that ship you were on?

 

[Navy Pride]

Kerry hasn't apologized yet -- his handlers just posted some BS about him apologizing.

The military members, our fallen heroes, and their families that he insulted on TV in front of the nation deserve more of an apology than some bulletin board memo posted on a web page by a web technician and a PR staff writer!

Kerry should get up in front of the cameras and personally apologize to the men and women of our armed forces........

 

[Navy Pride]

How many women, Vietnamese, and villiages were on that ship you were on?

There were a lot of Vietnamese and women at Cam Ranh Bay where I served for 13 months........And I had lost 6 friends who were blown up in a hotel in Saigon......

Just for you info my liberal friend there are a lot of Navy people whose names are on that wall in Washington.....I go there every year.......You should try it sometime..........:roll:

 

[Iriemon]

There were a lot of Vietnamese and women at Cam Ranh Bay where I served for 13 months........And I had lost 6 friends who were blown up in a hotel in Saigon......

I'll take your word for it there were no rapes, murders and pillages on your ship in Cam Ranh Bay. Fair enough.

Just for you info my liberal friend there are a lot of Navy people whose names are on that wall in Washington.....I go there every year.......You should try it sometime..........:roll:

Been there several times, it is very moving, makes me very sad to think of the unnecessary waste of lives of so many good people because the conservative warmongers were determined to keep the nation embroiled in another foreign civil guerrilla war because our leaders were too proud to withdraw unless we "won". Same thing is happening again today. Fortunately during Vietnam the people rose up and forced the government to get out of that mess. Hopefully that will happen in Iraq, probably not for a couple years tho.

 

[aps]

Kerry lost by over three million votes.

He lost because Bush took Ohio by that many votes. Had Kerry taken Ohio, he would have won.

 

[aps]

Arguing is a lot easier when you just up facts as you go along. Note how Easyt65 states what people supposedly said, but doesn't actually quote them or give a source to their statements. There is a reason for this. He continually misrepresents and fabricates what people say in order to try to make a point.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[aps]

1. Well I served in Vietnam and so did a lot of my friends and I know of no one who raped, murdered and pillaged..There were some people that did that but you can't paint every Vietnam Vet with the same brush.....Because of his outrageous comments Vietnam vets were spit on and insulted when they cam back........

Don't misrepresent what he said. He didn't say he spoke for ALL VETERANS. Get real. And if the shoe fits..........

2. No soldiers have pleaded guilty to what Kerry said..........There were isolated cases where soldiers committed crimes and they will be pusnished for that.........We have 140,000 troops in Iraq and again tou can't paint them all with the same brush.......

He has not painted veterans with the same brush. Misrepresentation.

3. I have and how you can still defend him is beyond me.....

Okay.

 

[Navy Pride]

I'll take your word for it there were no rapes, murders and pillages on your ship in Cam Ranh Bay. Fair enough.



Been there several times, it is very moving, makes me very sad to think of the unnecessary waste of lives of so many good people because the conservative warmongers were determined to keep the nation embroiled in another foreign civil guerrilla war because our leaders were too proud to withdraw unless we "won". Same thing is happening again today. Fortunately during Vietnam the people rose up and forced the government to get out of that mess. Hopefully that will happen in Iraq, probably not for a couple years tho.

1. you insinuated I was only on ships.........Its true I did 2 deployments a total of 20 months on deployments in the south china seas but I also did 13 month in country........Did I say there were rapes, murders and pillagin in Cam Ranh Bay? I think not.........

2. If you been to the Viet Nam Memorial then you must have noticed that there are a lot of Navy mend names on it so don't disrespect them.....
What makes me sad about the 58,000 people that died in Nam that were mostly sent their by a democratic president is thanks to you and people like you they died for nothing..........I still correspond with the wife of a friend of mine whos husband died there and she believes that with her whole heart and soul and will never forgive people that believe like you and like Kerry and "Hanoi Jane"........Your cut and run belief is why the 58,000 American and Millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians died for nothing..

 

[ALiberalModerate]

1. you insinuated I was only on ships.........Its true I did 2 deployments a total of 20 months on deployments in the south china seas but I also did 13 month in country........Did I say there were rapes, murders and pillagin in Cam Ranh Bay? I think not.........

2. If you been to the Viet Nam Memorial then you must have noticed that there are a lot of Navy mend names on it so don't disrespect them.....
What makes me sad about the 58,000 people that died in Nam that were mostly sent their by a democratic president is thanks to you and people like you they died for nothing..........I still correspond with the wife of a friend of mine whos husband died there and she believes that with her whole heart and soul and will never forgive people that believe like you and like Kerry and "Hanoi Jane"........Your cut and run belief is why the 58,000 American and Millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians died for nothing..

I understand how you would be bitter about it, but I think that the vast majority of historians would agree that had we stayed another 20 years, we would have still been in a quagmire. The fact that they sent you there is why 58,000 men died for nothing, not the fact that they eventually realized it was a mistake.

 

[Stinger]

I actually can't believe you're buying the Republican horse$hit.

Are you buying Kerry's denials?

He said what he said and it was a gross insult. The words are what they are. He was talking about education, listen to the tape, he insults Bush and then moves on to talk about education and then he talks about if "you" do this and "you" do that and "you" do that then this will happen to "you" insulting the intelligence of those serving in Iraq, nothing about Bush, he then goes on to talk about Barbara Boxer and Diane Finestine, nothing about Bush.

So anyone listening with a reasonable mind would clearly descern he had just insulted the intelligence of the troops. In fact HE has to be an indiot NOT to have realized EXACTLY what he said when he said it.

The ONLY misconscruing or misirterperation would have been to interpret the he was NOT talking about the troops and insulting them.

So what he has ended up saying is that "I'm sorry if someone misconscrued what I said to not think I was talking about the troops, my statement stands as is"

And then he proceeds to insult the President and Republicans in the rest of his "appology"

What a jerk.

And do please try not to get personal.

 

[aps]

Are you buying Kerry's denials?

He said what he said and it was a gross insult. The words are what they are. He was talking about education, listen to the tape, he insults Bush and then moves on to talk about education and then he talks about if "you" do this and "you" do that and "you" do that then this will happen to "you" insulting the intelligence of those serving in Iraq, nothing about Bush, he then goes on to talk about Barbara Boxer and Diane Finestine, nothing about Bush.

So anyone listening with a reasonable mind would clearly descern he had just insulted the intelligence of the troops. In fact HE has to be an indiot NOT to have realized EXACTLY what he said when he said it.

The ONLY misconscruing or misirterperation would have been to interpret the he was NOT talking about the troops and insulting them.

So what he has ended up saying is that "I'm sorry if someone misconscrued what I said to not think I was talking about the troops, my statement stands as is"

And then he proceeds to insult the President and Republicans in the rest of his "appology"

What a jerk.

My interpretation of the above: I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong.

And do please try not to get personal.

How did I get personal? Please explain.