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Karen Read Trial - Take 2

In post #2123, I disproved the assertion of your post that is in red.

Its an even split across social media on guilt or innocence, its why the first trial was hung., ASHES sees everything via her introductory opinion that Read is innocent. This thread was built on that assumption, zero objectivity.

In this post, I will address the rest. First of all, this isn't a first trial thread. This is a second trial thread. The people that want to be are well acquainted with the vast assortment of evidence. Second, of course I started with the presumption of her innocence. That is the law the jury will be following, and that is how you arrive at correct conclusions. By not making assumptions without all the information. So yes, I was pro innocent before the first trial. Of course.

On top of that presumption, as information was coming out, it became apparent that the FBI had investigated the investigation. They had hired some of the best accident reconstructionists, ARCCA. They made their findings of no collision, before the first trial, before they knew anybody in the case. The lead investigator also was shown to have an extreme bias very early on after only talking to Jennifer and Matthew McCabe, and Brian Albert. They gave those findings to the prosecution. The prosecution was asked by the judge if those findings contained any exculpatory evidence, and they said that it did not. That's including all the Proctor texts. So that was a lie to the court, of course it was all exculpatory. It was clearly some shady shit. Should never have gone to trial the first time.

The more we learned, the more this was backed up. The more the Commonwealth witnesses testified, the more their stories changed. They never got more convincing.

Now how did you arrive at your conclusion?
I am biased, but not from the very beginning like you. I made my mind up half way through the first trial.
So that means you made up your mind at the conclusion of the prosecution's case that she was guilty. But we also know you don't watch the defense lawyers when they're cross examining Commonwealth witnesses, because you've said you think they're slimy scum from the start.

So you not only made up your mind when 50% of the evidence had been presented, you were only looking at 25% to come to that guilty judgement. To me, that seems a terrible method to arrive at the truth. Unless you want to tell me you did watch all of Jackson's and Yanetti's and Alessi's crosses?

Which is maybe why last trial you were making desperate excuses for the prosecution like maybe the plow threw him into the yard, as well as your usual continued tactics of ad homming all the attorneys, Read, and anyone defending her. I could cite hundreds of such in this and the other thread probably, but anyone reading this post still will already be well familiar with them. And lastly, there's your refusal to address any of the "rabbit hole" of exculpatory evidence that proves her actual innocence, that I've nicely summarized for you across several posts but which you continue to not address. Yet I bring evidence to refute every one of your claims.

That's not even addressing the prosecutorial misconduct occuring constantly during both trials, and the judge's absolute refusal to sanction them or punish them at all, while having harsh words for the defense over the slightest nothing, and the numerous terrible and atrocious rulings that will lead to reversible errors on appeal if somehow the jury is compromised into a guilty verdict beyond OUI.
 
Very interested to see what comes Monday. Juries are so hard to predict sometimes.
 
Very interested to see what comes Monday. Juries are so hard to predict sometimes.
I think sometimes people overthink it. Sometimes things are as obvious as they appear and have appeared for years with every new piece of evidence added.

We never did get a source on the 9-3 or 8-4 for manslaughter vote. Afaik, only a couple jurors gave interviews. Both of them to various news outlets as well as Turtleboy. And neither of them mentioned a vote count that I heard. Nothing to the contrary has ever been presented, and if it existed, you would think it would have been.

I would bet it was a lot closer to 11-1 to acquit on manslaughter. Hopefully we will hear more in the future about how those deliberations went.
 
As for why we haven't actually heard a vote count, maybe it was a secret vote, and only the jury foreperson knew the count.
 
How can one know that the final 12 selected jurors are done without bias? Especially since the police department is very much targeted in this trial? I have said before, there is no line city hall will not cross to defend itself. And that includes getting the jurrors they want. I have read that the judge makes sure the selection is made fairly. Yet the judge appears to me very biased. My opinion.

Karen Read is innocent. But I won't be surprised if she is found guilty.

Lees
 
How can one know that the final 12 selected jurors are done without bias? Especially since the police department is very much targeted in this trial? I have said before, there is no line city hall will not cross to defend itself. And that includes getting the jurrors they want. I have read that the judge makes sure the selection is made fairly. Yet the judge appears to me very biased. My opinion.

Karen Read is innocent. But I won't be surprised if she is found guilty.

Lees
I think it's out of their control now. They tried at the first trial and it blew up even bigger. Streisand effect.
 
There's one last thing I want to mention that Brennan and the guilty votes never properly understood and addressed.

The math and the science. During his cross of Wolfe and Rentshler, Brennan continued to make a big deal out of the weight of the arm used in the tests.

11.8 lbs he kept insisting they should have tested with, not 9.5 or 10.

I guess he never heard of the old saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." It isn't just a platitude, it's based on reality. His claims that the difference in the weight of the arm should have resulted in a 25% increase in damage to the car is incorrect. What it will actually do is only fractionally more damage to the car, but significantly more damage to the arm.

When Wolfe measured forces to the arm at 15mph, the result was 300g's. To get the force in lbs, you take the 300g x 10lb arm = 3000lbs of force on the arm.

If the arm was 11.8lbs, now this results in a force on the arm of 3540lbs, which means that 16.5% more damage should have been done to the arm. Now lets do the same calculation on the taillight, to see how much more damage would have been done to it. Brennan just took his 25% difference in the arm and made that his final answer. Should have been 25% more damage to the taillight with a 25% increase in the arm. But that's now physics works.

Given the SUV weight of 6000lbs, and the arm weight of 10, we do 6000/10=600lbs. At 11.8 we do 6000/11.8=508lbs.

Now we subtract 508 from 600, which is 92, and then we figure which percentage of 6000 92 is, which is 1.53%. the difference to the damage to the taillight Brennan was making such a fuss over wasn't 25%, it was less than 2%.
 
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Law and Crime is live and on the fan. Don't really expect much until 9am ET though. Jurors have deliberated for an hour and forty five minutes so far. Not enough time to review all the evidence as instructed by the judge before taking a straw vote.

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Ok this made me laugh.

 
In post #2123, I disproved the assertion of your post that is in red.



In this post, I will address the rest. First of all, this isn't a first trial thread. This is a second trial thread. The people that want to be are well acquainted with the vast assortment of evidence. Second, of course I started with the presumption of her innocence. That is the law the jury will be following, and that is how you arrive at correct conclusions. By not making assumptions without all the information. So yes, I was pro innocent before the first trial. Of course.

On top of that presumption, as information was coming out, it became apparent that the FBI had investigated the investigation. They had hired some of the best accident reconstructionists, ARCCA. They made their findings of no collision, before the first trial, before they knew anybody in the case. The lead investigator also was shown to have an extreme bias very early on after only talking to Jennifer and Matthew McCabe, and Brian Albert. They gave those findings to the prosecution. The prosecution was asked by the judge if those findings contained any exculpatory evidence, and they said that it did not. That's including all the Proctor texts. So that was a lie to the court, of course it was all exculpatory. It was clearly some shady shit. Should never have gone to trial the first time.

The more we learned, the more this was backed up. The more the Commonwealth witnesses testified, the more their stories changed. They never got more convincing.

Now how did you arrive at your conclusion?

So that means you made up your mind at the conclusion of the prosecution's case that she was guilty. But we also know you don't watch the defense lawyers when they're cross examining Commonwealth witnesses, because you've said you think they're slimy scum from the start.

So you not only made up your mind when 50% of the evidence had been presented, you were only looking at 25% to come to that guilty judgement. To me, that seems a terrible method to arrive at the truth. Unless you want to tell me you did watch all of Jackson's and Yanetti's and Alessi's crosses?

Which is maybe why last trial you were making desperate excuses for the prosecution like maybe the plow threw him into the yard, as well as your usual continued tactics of ad homming all the attorneys, Read, and anyone defending her. I could cite hundreds of such in this and the other thread probably, but anyone reading this post still will already be well familiar with them. And lastly, there's your refusal to address any of the "rabbit hole" of exculpatory evidence that proves her actual innocence, that I've nicely summarized for you across several posts but which you continue to not address. Yet I bring evidence to refute every one of your claims.

That's not even addressing the prosecutorial misconduct occuring constantly during both trials, and the judge's absolute refusal to sanction them or punish them at all, while having harsh words for the defense over the slightest nothing, and the numerous terrible and atrocious rulings that will lead to reversible errors on appeal if somehow the jury is compromised into a guilty verdict beyond OUI.
All of your wasted bullshit on me won't change the inescapable fact that Read might get convicted. If she does I expect you will lash out at me with vigor and at the jurors.
 
Judge says she was given something to read from the court officer.
 
All of your wasted bullshit on me won't change the inescapable fact that Read might get convicted. If she does I expect you will lash out at me with vigor and at the jurors.
And when she's acquitted you still will address nothing or even admit you were wrong.
 
Defense also says that the jury got an incorrect version of the charging document for count 2.
 
How can one know that the final 12 selected jurors are done without bias? Especially since the police department is very much targeted in this trial? I have said before, there is no line city hall will not cross to defend itself. And that includes getting the jurrors they want. I have read that the judge makes sure the selection is made fairly. Yet the judge appears to me very biased. My opinion.

Karen Read is innocent. But I won't be surprised if she is found guilty.

Lees
Making excuses before the verdict is even in, its exactly what ASHES is doing.
 
All of your wasted bullshit on me won't change the inescapable fact that Read might get convicted. If she does I expect you will lash out at me with vigor and at the jurors.
You also failed to acknowledge you were wrong about the post I responded to in #2123.
 
There's one last thing I want to mention that Brennan and the guilty votes never properly understood and addressed.

The math and the science. During his cross of Wolfe and Rentshler, Brennan continued to make a big deal out of the weight of the arm used in the tests.

11.8 lbs he kept insisting they should have tested with, not 9.5 or 10.

I guess he never heard of the old saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." It isn't just a platitude, it's based on reality. His claims that the difference in the weight of the arm should have resulted in a 25% increase in damage to the car is incorrect. What it will actually do is only fractionally more damage to the car, but significantly more damage to the arm.

When Wolfe measured forces to the arm at 15mph, the result was 300g's. To get the force in lbs, you take the 300g x 10lb arm = 3000lbs of force on the arm.

If the arm was 11.8lbs, now this results in a force on the arm of 3540lbs, which means that 16.5% more damage should have been done to the arm. Now lets do the same calculation on the taillight, to see how much more damage would have been done to it. Brennan just took his 25% difference in the arm and made that his final answer. Should have been 25% more damage to the taillight with a 25% increase in the arm. But that's now physics works.

Given the SUV weight of 6000lbs, and the arm weight of 10, we do 6000/10=600lbs. At 11.8 we do 6000/11.8=508lbs.

Now we subtract 508 from 600, which is 92, and then we figure which percentage of 6000 92 is, which is 1.53%. the difference to the damage to the taillight Brennan was making such a fuss over wasn't 25%, it was less than 2%.
Please, stop crying.
 
In the first trial the Jurors deliberated for 5 days, twice signaling the court that they were having trouble. After several attempts they told Cannone that they had “fundamental differences in our opinions,” and that “consensus is unattainable.” The judge then declared a mistrial.

Anyone care to venture a guess on how long the jurors will deliberate in trial 2.
 
In the first trial the Jurors deliberated for 5 days, twice signaling the court that they were having trouble. After several attempts they told Cannone that they had “fundamental differences in our opinions,” and that “consensus is unattainable.” The judge then declared a mistrial.

Anyone care to venture a guess on how long the jurors will deliberate in trial 2.
Not I, I have been saying for a while, you can never guess how juries will vote.

I think the science says she is innocent. But that is me.
 
Jury resumes deliberations. Everybody is just waiting around in the courtroom.
 
While we wait, I'm watching Larry Forman's video about how the jury reacted to Dr. Wolfe's testimony. He was there in the courtroom that day.

 
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