• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Justice is legal revenge?

J

JJB3333

Active member
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
464
Reaction score
79
Location
Colorado, U.S.A
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
So a buddy of mign posed me a question. How is justice any different than revenge. My answer was well it is legal and they get set punishments. So the he said " so justice is just legal revenge). Well i can honestly say i was stumped. What do you guys think?
 

No. Justice does not seek revenge it seeks to deter crime (maintain order) by imposing sanctions for those that commit crime. Now if the sentence imposed was spending 15 minutes with the friends and relatives of the victim, or transferred all of the perps possessions to the victim, then that might be leaning a bit towards revenge. How is giving someone convicted of a crime a fine or a jail term revenge? It gives nothing back to the victim so they do not feel made whole by it (they did not "get even") - it gives society some sense of control over the criminal impulses of a few morons.
 

some criminals don't seem to be deterred by the death penalty.
 

Essentially yes, he's correct. It's legalized justice wherein the victim is not the judge, jury, or executioner (in this case executioner means the ones that execute the sentence be they guards, parole officers, or "executioners"), and instead a hopefully more rational group of people are tasked with determining the revenge which is further intended to deter crime as well.
 

Justice can take whatever form you want, actually. I just happen to think it should be overwhelmingly rehabilitative or as a form of quarantine to protect the public from predators.
 
Viewing the justice system as a punishment and revenge system is a terrible misconception. The justice system has two purposes, each justifying society itself:

1. Public safety (incarceration).
2. Redemption (rehabilitation).
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
some criminals don't seem to be deterred by the death penalty.
Click to expand...

Some don't give a **** what the law is; they do what they want, when they want to and to whoever/whatever they choose to do it to. The DP is now used too infrequently to matter and should be reserved for all 3 time felons (yes even multiple DWIs or bad checks). Someone may be wrongly convicted once, maybe even wrongly convicted twice but after three felony convictions they win the one way ticket out of society.
 
ecofarm said:
Viewing the justice system as a punishment and revenge system is a terrible misconception. The justice system has two purposes, each justifying society itself:
1. Public safety (incarceration).
2. Redemption (rehabilitation).
Click to expand...
`
We have more people in prison, per capita, than North Korea, China, Russia or Iran. The US is #1 in incarceration but unfortunately, is dead last on rehabilitation.
 
That is not a complete definition of "justice".
 
Paxaeon said:
`
We have more people in prison, per capita, than North Korea, China, Russia or Iran. The US is #1 in incarceration but unfortunately, is dead last on rehabilitation.
Click to expand...

The real questions might be 1) is the Prison Industrial Complex as influential as the Military Industrial Complex, and 2) how corrupt is the federal government to continue to fund pernicious and failed policy as it does?
 
ecofarm said:
Viewing the justice system as a punishment and revenge system is a terrible misconception. The justice system has two purposes, each justifying society itself:

1. Public safety (incarceration).
2. Redemption (rehabilitation).
Click to expand...


The Public Safety angle is overplayed a bit. In the case of actual, real, sho'nuff predators, then yes.

But in the case of blue and white collar criminals including drug users, public safety has nothing to do with it, but some form of vengeance does.
 
Paxaeon said:
`
We have more people in prison, per capita, than North Korea, China, Russia or Iran. The US is #1 in incarceration but unfortunately, is dead last on rehabilitation.
Click to expand...

You just can't fix stupid. We need three (felony conviction) strikes and you are out (permanently) laws. Doing the same thing over and over and yet anticipating a different result each time is ****ing stupid.
 
Paxaeon said:
`
We have more people in prison, per capita, than North Korea, China, Russia or Iran. The US is #1 in incarceration but unfortunately, is dead last on rehabilitation.
Click to expand...

There are three major factors within that stat, which cannot be ignored.

Developing countries do not have the capacity to prosecute all crimes, their courts and prisons are more over-full than ours. It's not rare that police in developing countries will recommend "the next time you call, let us just take a body so he doesn't come right back to you".

Second, these countries do not document all imprisonment. In gulag like-conditions, thousands suffer and are often left off of national figures.

Third, developing countries suffer more corruption than developed countries. The amount of bribery cannot be compared.
 
Paxaeon said:
We have more people in prison, per capita, than North Korea, China, Russia or Iran. The US is #1 in incarceration but unfortunately, is dead last on rehabilitation.
Click to expand...

Yeah, just because we know what our justice system should be doing doesn't meant that it is doing that. We need to stop the influence of private prison corporations, drug prohibition, racism, and those who want to use the justice system for revenge. When we use prioritize it for the correct goals, like the ones you quoted, then it will do what it's supposed to do.

Henry David said:
The real questions might be 1) is the Prison Industrial Complex as influential as the Military Industrial Complex, and 2) how corrupt is the federal government to continue to fund pernicious and failed policy as it does?
Click to expand...

Because state governments have nothing to do with it?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
No. Justice does not seek revenge it seeks to deter crime (maintain order) by imposing sanctions for those that commit crime. .
Click to expand...

Justice also has a revenge component. This component has been reduced in most western systems, but the component is still there. Instead of revenge being taken by the individual, the State facilitates the vengeance in a far more controlled manner.

This is usually done by allowing the jury or judge to weigh victims impact statements or when the District Attorney consults with the victim's family as to what penalty should be sought.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…