Justice Department tells Jim Jordan it won’t share information about ongoing investigations

[Chomsky]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/justice-department-jim-jordan/index.html

In a letter to House Judiciary Chairman Jim Jordan responding to a flurry of document requests, the DOJ said that “any oversight requests must be weighed against the department’s interests in protecting the integrity of its work.”

The letter added: “The Department’s mission to independently and impartially uphold the rule of law requires us to maintain the integrity of our investigations, prosecutions, and civil actions, and to avoid even a perception that our efforts are influenced by anything but the law and the facts.”

Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee promptly responded to the letter, tweeting Friday afternoon: “Why’s DOJ scared to cooperate with our investigations?”

The letter is an early sign of the hurdles Jordan is likely to face, particularly as he tries to investigate the Justice Department and the FBI.

--

Looks like battle-lines are being drawn, and the DOJ is reserving the right to not cooperate with Jim Jordan's document requests.

It also seems Jim Jordan is getting a taste of his own medicine, given he previously refused to testify or turn-over documents to the Democratic Party controlled House Committees.

Given the general thumbing-of-noses by the recent Trump Administration (& MAGA) towards House investigations, I believe a new (low?) bar may have been set, and we're now entering an era of non-compliance with House investigatory oversight. Even worse, this general non-compliance seems to be extending to co-operation with law enforcement itself. We seem to be losing faith in, and desire to cooperate with, society's institutions. And yes - I'm dismayed by this trend, as it feels we are losing the structures of society by bits & pieces that are adding-up, producing a society that is becoming less cooperative and less lawful.

I don't think this is a good evolution for us.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

DOJ to Jim Jordan: Nope.

They're basically telling him to pound sand. “Consistent with longstanding policy and practice, any oversight requests must be weighed against the Department’s interests in protecting the integrity of its work,” Carlos Uriarte, DOJ's legislative affairs chief, wrote in the five-page letter...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Phys251]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/justice-department-jim-jordan/index.html

--

Looks like battle-lines are being drawn, and the DOJ is reserving the right to not cooperate with Jim Jordan's document requests.

It also seems Jim Jordan is getting a taste of his own medicine, given he previously refused to testify or turn-over documents to the Democratic Party controlled House Committees.

Given the general thumbing-of-noses by the recent Trump Administration (& MAGA) towards House investigations, I believe a new (low?) bar may have been set, and we're now entering an era of non-compliance with House investigatory oversight. Even worse, this general non-compliance seems to be extending to co-operation with law enforcement itself. We seem to be losing faith in, and desire to cooperate with, society's institutions. And yes - I'm dismayed by this trend, as it feels we are losing the structures of society by bits & pieces that are adding-up, producing a society that is becoming less cooperative and less lawful.

I don't think this is a good evolution for us.

Good. Gym Jordan cannot be trusted with anything.

 

[Chomsky]

DOJ to Jim Jordan: Nope.

They're basically telling him to pound sand. “Consistent with longstanding policy and practice, any oversight requests must be weighed against the Department’s interests in protecting the integrity of its work,” Carlos Uriarte, DOJ's legislative affairs chief, wrote in the five-page letter...

debatepolitics.com

What can I say, it didn't come-up when I entered the thread title.

Regardless, thanks.

 

[Ambig]

Good. Gym Jordan cannot be trusted with anything.

Criminals are not allowed to demand law enforcement's files on the status of their own investigation.

Why should Jordan have his?

 

[yankintx]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/justice-department-jim-jordan/index.html

--

Looks like battle-lines are being drawn, and the DOJ is reserving the right to not cooperate with Jim Jordan's document requests.

It also seems Jim Jordan is getting a taste of his own medicine, given he previously refused to testify or turn-over documents to the Democratic Party controlled House Committees.

Given the general thumbing-of-noses by the recent Trump Administration (& MAGA) towards House investigations, I believe a new (low?) bar may have been set, and we're now entering an era of non-compliance with House investigatory oversight. Even worse, this general non-compliance seems to be extending to co-operation with law enforcement itself. We seem to be losing faith in, and desire to cooperate with, society's institutions. And yes - I'm dismayed by this trend, as it feels we are losing the structures of society by bits & pieces that are adding-up, producing a society that is becoming less cooperative and less lawful.

I don't think this is a good evolution for us.

The Republicans set the tone and lowered the bar by ignoring subpoenas.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

What can I say, it didn't come-up when I entered the thread title.

Regardless, thanks.

Sometimes I get to creative with the thread titles

 

[Cardinal]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/justice-department-jim-jordan/index.html

--

Looks like battle-lines are being drawn, and the DOJ is reserving the right to not cooperate with Jim Jordan's document requests.

It also seems Jim Jordan is getting a taste of his own medicine, given he previously refused to testify or turn-over documents to the Democratic Party controlled House Committees.

Given the general thumbing-of-noses by the recent Trump Administration (& MAGA) towards House investigations, I believe a new (low?) bar may have been set, and we're now entering an era of non-compliance with House investigatory oversight. Even worse, this general non-compliance seems to be extending to co-operation with law enforcement itself. We seem to be losing faith in, and desire to cooperate with, society's institutions. And yes - I'm dismayed by this trend, as it feels we are losing the structures of society by bits & pieces that are adding-up, producing a society that is becoming less cooperative and less lawful.

I don't think this is a good evolution for us.

There are no battle lines being drawn. That implies that the House has the tools to force the DOJ to hand over all the material in their investigations of Republicans. They don't.

However, if they want to go full scorched earth and just defund everything then they're free to reap the political consequences for that.

 

[Chomsky]

The Republicans set the tone and lowered the bar by ignoring subpoenas.

We're seeing a constant lowering of the bar in societal self-regulation, cooperation, and compliance.

Once you cross a new threshold, it's difficult to go back.

For those of us raised by parents from the post war generation, this new uncooperative bifurcated society is starting to feel like a different country. It used to be only a relatively small radical minority fringe promoted anti-law and anti-societal responses. But lately, it is becoming mainstream thought - particularly in the Republican Party due to MAGA entrenchment within.

 

[yankintx]

We're seeing a constant lowering of the bar in societal self-regulation, cooperation, and compliance.

Once you cross a new threshold, it's difficult to go back.

For those of us raised by parents from the post war generation, this new uncooperative bifurcated society is starting to feel like a different country. It used to be only a relatively small radical minority fringe promoted anti-law and anti-societal responses. But lately, it is becoming mainstream thought - particularly in the Republican Party due to MAGA entrenchment within.

I recall Butterfield being threatened with arrest if he did not turn up to testify on the day, the Watergate Hearings

How many members of Trumps WH just blew off the Jan 6 committee, lots.

These same members, including Gym will cry foul for the very same thing they have done.

No one does hypocrisy like the Republicans.

 

[Chomsky]

Sometimes I get to creative with the thread titles

Which is one of the reasons why I generally prefer to post and hang in BN, as it requires the article title to be posted accurately. I also think I've generally seen a higher level of discussion in BN, but I think any difference in that has now pretty much evaporated as the BN rules have been relaxed.

But I'm not disparaging posting or creativity in places like General Discussion, as there's a need for that type of thread-starting and discussion too. It's a good place to put original ideas.

In fact with my substantial opinionating I did in my OP here, I considered putting this thread in General Discussion myself! But in the end, I treated as a hard news item - so I felt it belonged here in BN.

 

[Chomsky]

I recall Butterfield being threatened with arrest if he did not turn up to testify on the day, the Watergate Hearings

How many members of Trumps WH just blew off the Jan 6 committee, lots.

These same members, including Gym will cry foul for the very same thing they have done.

No one does hypocrisy like the Republicans.

Yep. Hypocrisy is a MAGA hallmark feature!

 

[yankintx]

Yep. Hypocrisy is a MAGA hallmark feature!

When one allows for a leader like Trump, there is very little to fall back on when requiring others to have standards.

 

[mrjurrs]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/justice-department-jim-jordan/index.html

--

Looks like battle-lines are being drawn, and the DOJ is reserving the right to not cooperate with Jim Jordan's document requests.

It also seems Jim Jordan is getting a taste of his own medicine, given he previously refused to testify or turn-over documents to the Democratic Party controlled House Committees.

Given the general thumbing-of-noses by the recent Trump Administration (& MAGA) towards House investigations, I believe a new (low?) bar may have been set, and we're now entering an era of non-compliance with House investigatory oversight. Even worse, this general non-compliance seems to be extending to co-operation with law enforcement itself. We seem to be losing faith in, and desire to cooperate with, society's institutions. And yes - I'm dismayed by this trend, as it feels we are losing the structures of society by bits & pieces that are adding-up, producing a society that is becoming less cooperative and less lawful.

I don't think this is a good evolution for us.

There is a difference between interfering with an investigation and not assisting with an investigation, shocking jordan doesn't remember that.

Considering the alternative, political bodies involved in criminal investigations (a giant step towards authoritarianism), I disagree with your conclusion. Imo, this is way down the list of things that are breaking our society.

 

[Chomsky]

There are no battle lines being drawn. That implies that the House has the tools to force the DOJ to hand over all the material in their investigations of Republicans. They don't.

However, if they want to go full scorched earth and just defund everything then they're free to reap the political consequences for that.

That's not necessarily the implication. There historically has been a spirit of cooperation, tenuous or not.

We're becoming a camp of two Parties attacking each other, not cooperating for the better good. I realize what's going-on, but still bemoan it. MAGA is bringing us all collectively to lower levels. There's really no choice, but that doesn't mean we should be happy with it.

Every round of attack & lack of cooperation sets the bar & need to go the next level higher during the next round. It's really a terrible dynamic, and I see it as akin to domestic violence.

The pathology of domestic violence is it "needs" to escalate in order to get the perceived effect the perpetrator desires once the previous effect become accepted behaviour. That why even the most minor domestic violence cannot be tolerated, as it virtually always leads to further more serious acts.

Well my friend, that's what I believe I'm seeing here. The ante keeps getting "upped". And that is definitely not good for society.

 

[Chomsky]

When one allows for a leader like Trump, there is very little to fall back on when requiring others to have standards.

And that's exactly my point! We all collectively slip, as the receiver of the negative act has to perpetrate the act themselves in order to protect themselves.

Honestly it really strikes me as being in a bad relationship. One cheats, steals, or hits, the other cheats, steals, or hits back in defense, and the whole thing falls apart & slips into oblivion!

 

[Ambig]

We're becoming a camp of two Parties attacking each other, not cooperating for the better good. I realize what's going-on, but still bemoan it. MAGA is bringing us all collectively to lower levels. There's really no choice, but that doesn't mean we should be happy with it.

Every round of attack & lack of cooperation sets the bar & need to go the next level higher during the next round. It's really a terrible dynamic, and I see it as akin to domestic violence.

Yeah, and it's based on the same thing... low moral character. An absence of principled behavior.

 

[Chomsky]

There is a difference between interfering with an investigation and not assisting with an investigation, shocking jordan doesn't remember that.

Excellent point!

Considering the alternative, political bodies involved in criminal investigations (a giant step towards authoritarianism), I disagree with your conclusion. Imo, this is way down the list of things that are breaking our society.

I can respect that, but given the forum name is "debate politics", I felt this was a good topic.

 

[Cardinal]

That's not necessarily the implication. There historically has been a spirit of cooperation, tenuous or not.

We're becoming a camp of two Parties attacking each other, not cooperating for the better good. I realize what's going-on, but still bemoan it. MAGA is bringing us all collectively to lower levels. There's really no choice, but that doesn't mean we should be happy with it.

Every round of attack & lack of cooperation sets the bar & need to go the next level higher during the next round. It's really a terrible dynamic, and I see it as akin to domestic violence.

The pathology of domestic violence is it "needs" to escalate in order to get the perceived effect the perpetrator desires once the previous effect become accepted behaviour. That why even the most minor domestic violence cannot be tolerated, as it virtually always leads to further more serious acts.

Well my friend, that's what I believe I'm seeing here. The ante keeps getting "upped". And that is definitely not good for society.

I agree, and I think we're finally at the point where one side playing chicken isn't actually playing. This may be the year where the GOP are crazy enough to not raise the debt ceiling.

 

[Chomsky]

Yeah, and it's based on the same thing... low moral character. An absence of principled behavior.

You've got that right!

But remember, when one is attacked using unprincipled, amoral, or even illegal means, defense may require things that are otherwise thought of as immoral in other context.

A prime real-world example of this might be self-defense with a fire-arm or justified war. No one wants to do either, but circumstances force the acts.

The above is what I believe I'm seeing. We're seeing unprecedented actions that are often out of the bounds of "normal/regular" society or convention, so we feel the need to respond or act in kind.

And collectively, we all slip.

 

[reflechissez]

Which is one of the reasons why I generally prefer to post and hang in BN, as it requires the article title to be posted accurately. I also think I've generally seen a higher level of discussion in BN, but I think any difference in that has now pretty much evaporated as the BN rules have been relaxed.

But I'm not disparaging posting or creativity in places like General Discussion, as there's a need for that type of thread-starting and discussion too. It's a good place to put original ideas.

In fact with my substantial opinionating I did in my OP here, I considered putting this thread in General Discussion myself! But in the end, I treated as a hard news item - so I felt it belonged here in BN.

When looking to see if your thread topic has recently been posted, just search by the topic, ie., Jim Jordan.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Good. Gym Jordan cannot be trusted with anything.

I second that!!

 

[Chomsky]

I agree, and I think we're finally at the point where one side playing chicken isn't actually playing. This may be the year where the GOP are crazy enough to not raise the debt ceiling.

Agreed.

And if they (GOP) don't "give" on the debt ceiling, do we? Do we give-in to economic terrorism?

What might be the worst part of this, is terrorism by it's very nature always works . . . unless . . . you wipe it out completely! But think about that? What we're doing or need to do, in order to react? We're in effect perpetrating escalation! Even if in defense!

Quite honestly, I'm not exaggerating when I equate this to a (very) bad relationship. It's like a marriage gone bad, where you're stuck because you'll have nowhere to go without your marital house, and you don't want to lose your property & kids. So you're stuck together battling for it.

It's really a very bad dynamic - IMHO.

 

[Chomsky]

When looking to see if your thread topic has recently been posted, just search by the topic, ie., Jim Jordan.

Thanks. Yeah, I might have to resort to doing it the old way - manual search.

It was easy to rely on the new s/w auto search feature generated when entering the newly created OP thread-title into the title field, but it obviously has its limitations.

 

[Cardinal]

Agreed.

And if they (GOP) don't "give" on the debt ceiling, do we? Do we give-in to economic terrorism?

Nope! Not if you don't want the HFC to effectively be in charge of the entire Federal government. Because once they learn that their loaded gun actually works, they can (and would) obtain the most insane concessions from EVERYBODY. There is no government body that wouldn't be subservient to them.

It reminds me of a Transformers comic book where a small time crook came into possession of Megatron when he was trapped in the form of a gun. That small time crook very quickly turned into the world's most dangerous criminal, and he brought down governments with his super gun. That would be the House if anybody caves to them on budget fights.

For anybody who's curious, once Megatron freed himself and turned back into a giant robot, he just wasn't that mad at the guy in spite of having been enslaved by him for months. And the reason for that is because nationwide crime sprees and mass destruction is the sort of shit Megatron can get behind.

What might be the worst part of this, is terrorism by it's very nature always works . . . unless . . . you wipe it out completely! But think about that? What we're doing or need to do, in order to react?

A) Hope they back down, or
B) Let voters punish them for destroying the nation.

We're in effect perpetrating escalation! Even if in defense!

Quite honestly, I'm not exaggerating when I equate this to a (very) bad relationship. It's like a marriage gone bad, where your stuck because you'll have nowhere to go without your marital house, and you don't want to lose your property & kids. So you're stuck together battling for it.

It's really a very bad dynamic - IMHO.

It's not good!