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But the US catastrophe that must come will be the result of government moving beyond the Constitution.
Socialism must eventually cause ruin.
Detroit lets us stare our fate in the face.
We could turn Detroit into an oasis of growth in less than a year. Have Congress pass a law that says Those in Detroit will pay only one-half of whatever tax rates are published for all of us. No regulatory agency regulations shall be binding. They will be advisory only. This shall be true for the next 75 years.
There...is...no...money.
Democrats just don't get the concept.
Coming soon to a city near you. Detroit in RUINS! (Crowder goes Ghetto) - YouTube
IT ALL STARTED WITH MAYOR JEROME CAVANAUGH ELECTED IN 1961......
It doesn't matter whether they are included or not. There's no money to pay them.
False. As has already been well documented - the slide began in 1951 and during the following decade Detroit lost 10% of its 1.8 million population. And the people who were mayor were not LEFTISTS or LIBERALS or SOCIALISTS as the liar behind this smear piece alleges the blame for Detroit lies with- they were.......... drum roll please ---- REPUBLICANS. Yes, the slide started under Republicans in 1951.
So your film is based on a FALSE PREMISE and can be flushed right out of the gate.
If you want to look at this from the partisan hack angle, lets try it from the opposite sideline and see what it looks like...
"After 10 years under Republican leadership Detroit finds itself with a 10% population loss and signs that the auto industry may not be viable over the long term. Beginning in January of 1962 a bold new Democratic leadership takes the helm and vows to right the ship and lead Detroit back to prosperity!
50 years later, under the guidance of strong Democratic leadership Detroit finds itself...<drum roll>... in ruins. Over half of the population now gone, vast stretches of real estate in decay, and the city coffers now dry, Detroit officially throws in the towel and files bankruptcy."
I dunno, haymarket. You may not want to go down this road. Going "hack" has a way of coming back around to bite you in the ass. That's free advice.:mrgreen:
I believe Haymarket's point is that one cannot conclude that Detroit's fiscal catastrophe is solely or largely the result of a given political party's governance. He points out that some of the critical factors e.g., onset of population decline, spanned city administrations from both parties. None of this means that single party domination doesn't have some adverse impact in governance outcomes, as one often sees such outcomes in uncompetitive markets. But the structural factors that led to Detroit's decline and current fiscal catastrophe are largely beyond issues of governance. Ineffectual governance exacerbated them and accelerated the slide. It did not create those structural factors.
If you want to look at this from the partisan hack angle:
And that is just what you did with this stupid video filled with lies and distortions intended to appeal to the far right wing true believers who already think Detroit is an annex of hades and Satan has been the mayor forever. I watched a bit of it and had no trouble showing you the outright LIE that he led with.
You are using words like hack when that is the very evidence that you attempted to pass of on us - the epitome of right wing hackery.
Now if you are serious try to find some respected experts to support your points. So far, you have presented none.
That city was once the picture of American industrial might. Henry Ford deployed the production line there and helped create the modern middle class. During World War II, more than a third of U.S. war material was manufactured in the city. During the postwar boom, cars made in Detroit embodied the American success story.
Now, the Motor City is collapsing in every conceivable way.
The unemployment rate is 18 percent, meaning almost 1 of every 5 people is out of work. A big reason is that the city's schools have failed. Just 7 percent of eighth-graders are proficient in reading. Only 12 percent of Detroit residents have college degrees. Yet Detroit teachers are the best-paid in the nation, the Mackinac Center for Public Policy says, when their pay is adjusted for purchasing power.
since we have devolved the debate to the sharing of personal anecdotes, here is mine
in the tenth year of my retirement; while i do a lot of things, some of them to earn a supplemental income, nothing is required for me to receive my monthly check
defined retirement pension
at age 60, expect to draw it for many more years ... plus social security @age 65
so, if you work for a ****ty organization, your fear is rational
if not, then not
I just watched a clip of Ed Shulz directly blaming Republicans for the fall of Detroit....calling it a "conservative
utopia"
it's probably the funniest, most non factual, idiotic argument i've seen yet on the subject.
hehe, he even blames the emergency manager for people leaving Detroit...seriously, he did.
even funnier, the ticker has all the little idiot twitter comments coming in from people who agree with him.
full retard mode.. activate!
Ed Schultz Identifies Detroit's Fatal Flaw City Became A 'Conservative Utopia' - YouTube
Umm.... I never posted a video. Are you mistaking me for someone else or are you lying... again?
I believe Haymarket's point is that one cannot conclude that Detroit's fiscal catastrophe is solely or largely the result of a given political party's governance. He points out that some of the critical factors e.g., onset of population decline, spanned city administrations from both parties. None of this means that single party domination doesn't have some adverse impact in governance outcomes, as one often sees such outcomes in uncompetitive markets. But the structural factors that led to Detroit's decline and current fiscal catastrophe are largely beyond issues of governance. Ineffectual governance exacerbated them and accelerated the slide. It did not create those structural factors.
On a larger point to rebut the partisan hypothesis, one has witnessed underfunding of pensions in cities and states run by both parties. For example, Illinois faces enormous unfunded pension liabilities. Legal cases concerning underfunding were raised during the 1970s (Democratic governor) and 1990s (Republican governor).
http://cgfa.ilga.gov/upload/2008 january handbook of illinois pension case law.pdf
One can see the appeal for a partisan explanation (aside from posturing for political gain), as such an explanation would seem to offer a simple fix. Unfortunately, convenient as a "simple fix" might be, the problems are of a magnitude and complexity that precludes any simple solutions. Putting the city on a more financially stable path via bankruptcy is probably the easy part of the issue. Restoring an environment of growth, safety, and reduced incidence of socioeconomic problems is the more difficult challenge. Diagnosing the issue as one of partisanship only detracts from gaining the understanding necessary to chart a path of recovery for Detroit.
Make no mistake about it, Haymarket's point is to run interference.
His posts are nothing more than the defense mechanism of a true hack. That should be obvious to all by this point.
Ed Schiltz is about half a retard isn't he.
Yesterday and also today, I made some references to Detroit's huge educational attainment gap, which has essentially left the city with a disproportionately uncompetitive labor pool. I also pointed out the strong indirect relationship between educational attainment and unemployment in the BLS's monthly employment situation reports. I've made the same point elsewhere.
A big reason is that the city's schools have failed. Just 7 percent of eighth-graders are proficient in reading. Only 12 percent of Detroit residents have college degrees. Yet Detroit teachers are the best-paid in the nation, the Mackinac Center for Public Policy says, when their pay is adjusted for purchasing power.
So, according to your interpretation of the Michigan constitution, each resident (man, woman or child) of Michigan is now obligated to pony up about $900 to cover the shortfall of Detroit city workers' retirement benefits? When less than 30K people are able to "constitutionally" accrue over $9 billion in debt there just might be a problem with your state's oversight of Detroit's finances. You do realize that comes to an average of each Detroit city retiree being owed $3,000,000. How is that even possible? That is saying that each average Detroit city retiree will get more than $100,000/year for 30 years, assuming that the Detroit city retirement fund now contains nothing at all.
duh!
when a debtor is without the means to pay their just financial obligations, then bankruptcy provisions are established just for such a circumstance
here is a clue - one lost on many others, too - the chapter 9 bankruptcy rules are already established, for instances such as this
such need for a municipality to file for bankruptcy was anticipated
and in bankruptcy actions, there are different tiers of creditors. THAT is what this is about
and if the provisions of the STATE constitution stand up in a FEDERAL bankruptcy court, the pensioners owed their retirement income by the city of detroit will receive their payments in full
and if there is not enough money to pay every other creditor in full - as is expected - some (probably most) of them will have to settle for pennies on the dollar. unsecured creditors will probably not receive those pennies
now come back and make another stupid post that does not advance this debate an iota; it has now become an expected "feature"
Why would bankruptcy need be declared if, as you claim, there is LOTS of money? The fact is that there is not enough money to satisfy debts, making your LOTS of money claim highly foolish. In fact I have never heard of anyone ever claiming bankruptcy that there was still LOTS of money to go around. Now you are talking pennies on the dollar, despite LOTS of money. Democrats do appear to live in Bubbaworld.
ONE person didn't immediately dismiss your post as hackery. ONE. This gives you credibility, how?It is interesting that others here saw my real point while others including yourself seemed blind to it in favor of harping the partisan line that Detroit has been ruled by Satan and is everything that is wrong with liberalism.
Your view of hackery was NOT shared by Donsutherland1. So your quip about being obvious to all seems to be one huge fail. So one now has to wonder who the real hack is in this whole thing.
ONE person didn't immediately dismiss your post as hackery.
What you are attempting to do now is to assign to me the partisan hack position that you have taken.
I will point it out and continue to expose your dishonesty each and every time you attempt it.
Besides yourself, who did dismiss it as hackery along with evidence to show it was wrong?
I will wait for the answer.
I have not attempting to do anything other than tell the truth using the facts. If you are not comfortable with the image you have created for yourself with you unfounded claims and allegations, perhaps you should first look at your own tactics?
Where are you reading that the poster said there was LOTS OF MONEY?
there is LOTS of money
just not enough to pay all the debts
so bankruptcy is the way to determine who gets paid and who does not get paid in full
and according to the state's constitution, the pensioners will get paid in full
those not protected by constitutional provisions - not so much. they will get what ever is left to divide for themselves
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