limited governmentOh you can still file for bankruptcy and free yourself from lots of obligations. Just not public pensions. Perhaps this should be known as LIMITED GOVERNMENT?
Who knew it was Unconstitutional to go broke!
They already have effectively done that by adopting the Constitution as shown. And that was done in 1963.
Or if you do not like that interpretation, the only other one is that it forbids pensions to be part of a city bankruptcy.
Either way, pensions are sacred in this state.
Oh you can still file for bankruptcy and free yourself from lots of obligations. Just not public pensions. Perhaps this should be known as LIMITED GOVERNMENT?
You really can't grasp this, can you.By attempting to violate the very Constitution of the State of Michigan and the obligations therein? That is astounding.
If you can't pay them then it really doesn't matter what a judge says. It's not like Detroit can print money!
When are you going to start caring for the second amendment as much as you care about a ponzi scheme based entirely on theft from the people being part of a state constitution? Just wondering is all.
Every gun post I have ever made is from a deep and profound caring for the Second Amendment as written and as ratified. I have long campaigned against the perversion of it by toadies and sycophants of the gun lobby who would change it from the way it actually was written and of its meaning when written.
I have no idea where this THEFT come in. Or are you using the term the way some right wing extremists use the term THEFT in place of taxation?
Every gun post I have ever made is from a deep and profound caring for the Second Amendment as written and as ratified. I have long campaigned against the perversion of it by toadies and sycophants of the gun lobby who would change it from the way it actually was written and of its meaning when written.
I have no idea where this THEFT come in. Or are you using the term the way some right wing extremists use the term THEFT in place of taxation?
By attempting to violate the very Constitution of the State of Michigan and the obligations therein? That is astounding.
Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.
But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:
1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
2 - deeply ingrained racial problems
It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
Just guessing but I would interpret it as referring to the state pension funds. What if the state were to go bankrupt? Would the US constitution make the federal government cosign for the funds? There have to be consequences for mismanagement whether in business or in government. We can't allow managers to do whatever they feel like doing, fail and then be bailed out. I would support completing the bankruptcy and then turning the city over to the employees for a few years. Let them do what is necessary to improve things and protect their pension. They have the real incentive. Then, when things settle down, they can have elections and do a better job of demanding performance from those they elect. The citizens share in the failure for electing incompetents and letting them practice their incompetence without interference.
just more mindless diversion
employed when they are losing the debate
What's astounding is that you've argued so vigorously on these very forums about how the U.S. Constitution is so living and open to interpretation. But oh boy touch your pet issues and suddenly it's incomprehensible? *eating popcorn*
If there ever was an issue with government corruption this is a great, tragic, example. You can't legislate that taxpayers ensure your political cronies have ZERO risk in the economy on taxpayer subsidized rates and investments for their entire life. Democrats have been using government to collect taxes and redistribute to their operatives and base for decades, it's the old tried and true liberal political machine. That it lasts as long as it does is a testament to how good you guys are at ****ing over the rest of us, no doubt...you should be applauded for that. But the music as others pointed out, eventually stops.
The public workers are just as much a victim here as the taxpayers, let's not lose sight of that. You and your ilk have sold them what you should never have tried to sell them, because it was not yours to begin with. They were suckered by that tried and true political propaganda and now they have to bear that burden.
Perhaps the judge read the Michigan Constitution?
STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT) CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963
§ 24 Public pension plans and retirement systems, obligation.
Sec. 24. The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.
yet another extreme perspective
a rant which tells us he would similarly object to federal bankruptcy rules which provides wage earners a super-priority
how dare the government look after the common citizen when it could instead be using its authority to vest corporations with more advantages
here is a hint
obviously you need it
this means that within the bankruptcy, the pensioners cannot be compelled to take a financial haircut
not true of other creditors
Explain to me how putting obligations on the people in a constitution is a good thing. Please explain to me how obligating the people to pay for workers that are retired can possibly be seen as anything short of corruption. Go ahead, please. I'll wait.
I can see that if they are State pensioners but aren't most City pensioners?
How dare they do either.
Explain to me how putting obligations on the people in a constitution is a good thing. Please explain to me how obligating the people to pay for workers that are retired can possibly be seen as anything short of corruption. Go ahead, please. I'll wait.
it's always a good thing for the state to put its citizens first
which illustrates the difference of the beliefs of democrats and republicans
republicans will use government authority to provide corporate interests with imbalanced advantages
in this instance, paying investors before the payment of retirement benefits to those who actually exerted while on the job.
fortunately, the state anticipated this inclination and mandated in its constitution that no body can dissipate the pension claim of a pensioner
so, when the assets are apportioned based on the claims of the claimants in bankruptcy, the pensioners will be first in line
if the money exists to pay any creditor, the pensioners will be first in line to receive it
NOT bond holders
obvious why the wingers hate that
of all the creditors owed by the city of detroit, which should stand in line to receive what is owed them before the workers who spent their careers earning a retirement which was committed to them for their decades of service?
i'll wait for your answer
When liberals are in charge dumb things happen. Like pensions relying on taxation being part of the constitution.
Based on his fame and accomplishments in a state where automobile making was a central topic of conversation, Romney was seen as a natural to enter politics.[104] He first became directly involved in politics in 1959, when he was a key force in the petition drive calling for a constitutional convention to rewrite the Michigan Constitution.[30][96] Romney's sales skills made Citizens for Michigan one of the most effective organizations among those calling for the convention.[104][109] Previously unaffiliated politically, Romney declared himself a member of the Republican Party and gained election to the convention.[104] By early 1960, many in Michigan's somewhat moribund Republican Party were touting Romney as a possible candidate for governor, U.S. senator, or even U.S. vice president.[35][49] Romney briefly considered a run in the 1960 Senate election,[49] but instead became a vice president of the constitutional convention that revised the Michigan constitution during 1961 and 1962.[110][111]
A good constitution should stand the test of time, but the constitution adopted by voters in 1963 — Michigan’s fourth — failed in critical areas. Two of the biggest were in the areas of apportioning the Senate and in deciding how all legislative districts would be reapportioned every decade following new census figures.
For example, the new constitution set forth a complicated plan to overcount rural voters and undercount urban voters in apportioning the state Senate: an 80-20 split between population and land. That effort didn’t survive 15 months before the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated the whole scheme.
The U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling in Reynolds v. Sims in June 1964 threw the upcoming Michigan elections into chaos and left election officials shell-shocked. Less than five months before the November elections, district lines had to be redrawn and candidates had to figure out their new districts.
The state Supreme Court, which a few weeks earlier had approved an apportionment based on undercounting urban voters, reversed gears: on June 22, 1964, it approved the Democratic redistricting plan (Austin-Kleiner) based entirely on population.
And yet, union rank and file just kept on electing the same union leadership that helped put Detroit into the crapper, and let them donate union dues to liberal causes and candidates who continually perpetuated this disaster. And they have the gonads to fight the bankruptcy.
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