Judge blocks Illinois pension reform law

[ChezC3]

Hey who gives a **** if the promises were bad, made by politicians at the time in return for political gain at tge cost of future generations? I guess the young just need to eat lower standard of living, higher taxes and more governnent bs to pay the bills thier parents and grandparents arranged for thenselves. Personally, I hope the courts force illinois to pay as promised. The bigger the train wreck the better the lesson for everyone else. Not that progs listen to history.

You don't get the implications here it would seem.

The promises weren't bad. The politicians were. Why would you advocate hundreds of thousands if not millions of people should lose or not receive benefits they were promised after they had finished fulfilling their end of an agreement? I have skin in this game along with several of my family members who are currently retired. I've ten years, the other two 21 and 30 years. Now, I seen the writing on the wall a while back and I left. I'm vested and I am promised 2.2% X 10 years = That's 22% of my highest 3 years which should give me a pension upon hitting retirement of roughly $8400 a year. /12 =$700 a month. Now, during those ten years, guess what? I didn't pay into Social Security. Guess what else that means? The $700/month that I do receive is gonna offset any Social Security Benefits I am eligible for when I make age. That is whatever SS benefit I am entitled to will be lessened due to the pension I receive from the State.

Now, I know, I know, the media and foaming at the mouth mad dog republicans will have you believing that all State workers make $100K a year, sit in the lap of luxury laugh and play, and get to make a $125K pension after they've relaxed their way through life. This is simply false. The family member I have which had 30 years topped out at $32K. $32,000 dollars after 30 years of service. Now, you'll undoubtedly say "They could have gone on to a different job to make more, they could have done better for themselves than that." You could be right. However, this particular person was a single mother of 2 and needed the PTO that was part of the benefits package, she needed the reduced rates on HC to provide for her and her own. And after she raised them, she was at a point where it didn't make since to jump ship, she knew what was promised her if she kept down that path and it was her decision to stay based on those promises.

Now the other one, the 21 year retiree, that one use to work in banking. Well after she had lost her position at the bank from International Finance and got bumped down to bank teller because she had the audacity to have a child and rules and laws didn't protect women like they do now, she had decided to leave the Banking world and took a position with the State. Now, she could have left for greener pastures too, but what kept her? Well, she was like a prophetess really, and she knew long ago the importance and the exceptional benefit that free HC after 20 years would be. As any newspaper, periodical, blog, etc... will show you she was 100% CORRECT. Now, she stayed the course with this simple objective in mind, this PROMISED benefit. She gave 21 years of her life the other 30 and me 10 years.

Can we have those years back? Can we rewind the clock and get back our time, make a different decision? No, we can't. We fulfilled our end of the agreement, our end of the contract and now it is the State's turn to fulfill its end of the agreement, its part of the contract.

So, now when headlines read that the Stat want to give a $100 million here and a $100 million there for some BS cause, when the State wants to allow multi billion dollar companies to come in and set up shop tax free, when the politicians have been rape, robbing and neglecting the pension funds for years, when all of these things are going down, you actually got the balls to sit there and tell me, that me and mine who did what they were suppose to do, that the hundreds of thousands of workers and retirees who did what they are suppose to do, that fulfilled their end of the agreement are suppose to suffer the consequences of poor decisions made from other people? All the while if it was those other people, they'd be damn sure to get paid every cent they thought they were entitled to?

 

[ChezC3]

That's not how dp works dude.
The library is only 0.1 billion of a 200 billion underfunded problem your union let happen.


When Rauner takes it to the amendment process, it will be you and the rest of the selfish RW/LW public pensioneers that get shot down buddy.

This thread was derailed by your own bashing of the DEMs, along with the Obama library.
You don't get to lie and say only one party is responsible.
Why don't you tell everyone of GOP Big Jim Thompson's part as governor for 14 years,
underfunding TRS by over 300 million every year he was in power.

It is how it worked here, dude.

No it wasn't you are derailing it with your petty partisan poppycock.

 

[Renae]

You don't get the implications here it wold seem.

The promises weren't bad. The politicians were. Why would you advocate hundreds of thousands if not millions of people should lose or not receive benefits they were promised after they had finished fulfilling their end of an agreement? I have skin in this game along with several of my family members who are currently retired. I've ten years, the other two 21 and 30 years. Now, I seen the writing on the wall a while back and I left. I'm vested and I am promised 2.2% X 10 years = That's 22% of my highest 3 years which should give me a pension upon hitting retirement of roughly $8400 a year. /12 =$700 a month. Now, during those ten years, guess what? I didn't pay into Social Security. Guess what else that means? The $700/month that I do receive is gonna offset any Social Security Benefits I am eligible for when I make age. That is whatever SS benefit I am entitled to will be lessened due to the pension I receive from the State.

Now, I know, I know, the media and foaming at the mouth mad dog republicans will have you believing that all State workers make $100K a year, sit in the lap of luxury laugh and play, and get to make a $125K pension after they've relaxed their way through life. This is simply false. The family member I have which had 30 years topped out at $32K. $32,000 dollars after 30 years of service. Now, you'll undoubtedly say "They could have gone on to a different job to make more, they could have done better for themselves than that." You could be right. However, this particular person was a single mother of 2 and needed the PTO that was part of the benefits package, she needed the reduced rates on HC to provide for her and her own. And after she raised them, she was at a point where it didn't make since to jump ship, she knew what was promised her if she kept down that path and it was her decision to stay based on those promises.

Now the other one, the 21 year retiree, that one use to work in banking. Well after she had lost her position at the bank from International Finance and got bumped down to bank teller because she had the audacity to have a child and rules and laws didn't protect women like they do now, she had decided to leave the Banking world and took a position with the State. Now, she could have left for greener pastures too, but what kept her? Well, she was like a prophetess really, and she knew long ago the importance and the exceptional benefit that free HC after 20 years would be. As any newspaper, periodical, blog, etc... will show you she was 100% CORRECT. Now, she stayed the course with this simple objective in mind, this PROMISED benefit. She gave 21 years of her life the other 30 and me 10 years.

Can we have those years back? Can we rewind the clock and get back our time, make a different decision? No, we can't. We fulfilled our end of the agreement, our end of the contract and now it is the State's turn to fulfill its end of the agreement, its part of the contract.

So, now when headlines read that the Stat want to give a $100 million here and a $100 million there for some BS cause, when the State wants to allow multi billion dollar companies to come in and set up shop tax free, when the politicians have been rape, robbing and neglecting the pension funds for years, when all of these things are going down, you actually got the balls to sit there and tell me, that me and mine who did what they were suppose to do, that the hundreds of thousands of workers and retirees who did what they are suppose to do, that fulfilled their end of the agreement are suppose to suffer the consequences of poor decisions made from other people? All the while if it was those other people, they'd be damn sure to get paid every cent they thought they were entitled to?

The promises WERE bad. Else we wouldnt be this conversation having.

 

[ChezC3]

The promises WERE bad. Else we wouldnt be this conversation having.

No, the politicians who didn't fulfill them were, hence this conversation.

 

[Linc]

When the private pensioneers get sick of the whiny teachers Unions I belonged to who won't compromise, they'll pass an amendment.

These same fixes by Quinn/DEMs which GOPs wanted more have been employed in other states
far better off with their pension messes than Illinois without all of this ridiculous complaining.

Illinois pensioneers as myself are penny-wise and pound foolish.

no, there is no need to compromise. we were paid that pension in lieu of higher salaries. reneging on that agreement now is the exact same thing as if your employer retroactively cut your salary ten years back and demanded a repayment.

BOEs are currently giving their administrators fat new contracts to retirement, beating the July 1st deadline for the $110,000 cap.
BOEs are giving away state money that isn't there.
All of these admins and higher-paid teachers will be grandfathered in--cute huh?

can't afford to pay it now? tough ****. raise ****ing taxes.

Illinois already has a quandry with a "temporary" income tax increase that DEMs want to be permanent and GOPs want to kick around as an issue.
And you speak of more taxes????????

With the Quinn fix, you have GOPs chirping it wasn't harsh enough.
You have GOP retireds who would lose a few bucks whining,
similar to what we saw with the military pensions Congressman Ryan correctly went after.

With the Quinn fix, you have just as stupid of whiny DEMs if not more since we should know better,
with their Unions throwing away legal fees and stopping a comprehensive solution intimidating pols.

None of the righties on this thread have a clue what it's like to be a retired teacher,
having watched the state graft for 40 years on state contributions,
seeing billions currently taken from the schools and other needs to the bottomless pit of pensions,
and now they blame one party--clueless .

 

[ocean515]

This is exactly why there shouldn't be public unions, or if there are then they have no ability to neogiate over wage increases or pension funds.
this is why and how unions hold taxpayer money hostage because if they would not have passed that bill they would have gone on strike.

Precisely! The economic results being felt in California are a direct result of this incestuous relationship. It's an outrage that unfortunately spread around the country once the Public Employee Unions were able to pull off the theft from taxpayers here.

 

[Linc]

Nothing about how we got in this mess from Thompson and the GOP????
All blame to the DEMs with a shot at the Obama library is not playing poolitics????
The GOP wants a worse fix than you are complaining about here and nothing from you on that????

All public pensioneers like myself must give a little before the dam breaks.
You don't get that do YOU ????

It is how it worked here, dude.

No it wasn't you are derailing it with your petty partisan poppycock.

 

[Linc]

Tell the OP that, or are you afraid to offend a fellow right-winger .

Precisely! The economic results being felt in California are a direct result of this incestuous relationship. It's an outrage that unfortunately spread around the country once the Public Employee Unions were able to pull off the theft from taxpayers here.

 

[Renae]

No, the politicians who didn't fulfill them were, hence this conversation.

There was never an intent to fullfil. Also, always blame the voters.

 

[ocean515]

Tell the OP that, or are you afraid to offend a fellow right-winger .

I didn't reply to the OP, I replied to the poster.

Is that a difficult concept to understand, or should I be more accommodating with radical Progs?

 

[Helix]

When the private pensioneers get sick of the whiny teachers Unions I belonged to who won't compromise, they'll pass an amendment.

These same fixes by Quinn/DEMs which GOPs wanted more have been employed in other states
far better off with their pension messes than Illinois without all of this ridiculous complaining.

Illinois pensioneers as myself are penny-wise and pound foolish.

BOEs are currently giving their administrators fat new contracts to retirement, beating the July 1st deadline for the $110,000 cap.
BOEs are giving away state money that isn't there.
All of these admins and higher-paid teachers will be grandfathered in--cute huh?


Illinois already has a quandry with a "temporary" income tax increase that DEMs want to be permanent and GOPs want to kick around as an issue.
And you speak of more taxes????????

With the Quinn fix, you have GOPs chirping it wasn't harsh enough.
You have GOP retireds who would lose a few bucks whining,
similar to what we saw with the military pensions Congressman Ryan correctly went after.

With the Quinn fix, you have just as stupid of whiny DEMs if not more since we should know better,
with their Unions throwing away legal fees and stopping a comprehensive solution intimidating pols.

None of the righties on this thread have a clue what it's like to be a retired teacher,
having watched the state graft for 40 years on state contributions,
seeing billions currently taken from the schools and other needs to the bottomless pit of pensions,
and now they blame one party--clueless .

this former rightie sure gets it, and it's part of why you see the word "former" there. between their utter misunderstanding of health care and contempt for labor, there's not much to like other than that they actually do talk about deficit / debt. however, the one sided austerity that they propose is something that i can't get behind. if we have to rob teachers and cut the poor off, then those on the other end of the spectrum should take a bigger hit, too. and if they're not willing to accept that, then i do not believe that they truly care about the debt, and believe instead that they are only using it as a political chip. and the dems are often just as dip****ish in other areas. ****, how bad does your party have to be to make the dems look good? it's like you have two people in your house : one is walking around with a sledgehammer and breaking windows, and the other one is blackout drunk trying to put on a record and scratching it up. the blackout drunk seems better, because at least he isn't ****ing things up as badly as the window breaker.

be that as it may, this pension **** is theft and breach of contract, pure and simple.

 

[MMC]

this former rightie sure gets it, and it's part of why you see the word "former" there. between their utter misunderstanding of health care and contempt for labor, there's not much to like other than that they actually do talk about deficit / debt. however, the one sided austerity that they propose is something that i can't get behind. if we have to rob teachers and cut the poor off, then those on the other end of the spectrum should take a bigger hit, too. and if they're not willing to accept that, then i do not believe that they truly care about the debt, and believe instead that they are only using it as a political chip. and the dems are often just as dip****ish in other areas. ****, how bad does your party have to be to make the dems look good? it's like you have two people in your house : one is walking around with a sledgehammer and breaking windows, and the other one is blackout drunk trying to put on a record and scratching it up. the blackout drunk seems better, because at least he isn't ****ing things up as badly as the window breaker.

be that as it may, this pension **** is theft and breach of contract, pure and simple.

Yep but it is like Maggie stated earlier in the thread......since 2003 its been all Democrat eating Democrat. Which she answered him directly on that.

Which is why CPS schools and Emanuel are at each other. With the head of that Union standing directly opposing Emanuel.

My OL also is a teacher in Illinois. Not CPS Schools either. IEA!

 

[Linc]

Yep but it is like Maggie stated earlier in the thread......since 2003 its been all Democrat eating Democrat. Which she answered him directly on that.

Yep, and before 2003 it was the GOP for 26 years as governor.
Way to not be even-handed as we would expect.

Thompson was in charge when the shortchange to the TRS was 400 million a year for 14 straight years.
How much interest do you think was lot on all that money that wasn't there????

But Big Jim has his cushy government pension and health care, very appropriate to this thread.
Your noise on Jesse Jackson, not so much.
Your OL's Union is just as responsible as any entity for this problem, which will dwarf Detroit because nobody gives any more .

 

[ChezC3]

Nothing about how we got in this mess from Thompson and the GOP????
All blame to the DEMs with a shot at the Obama library is not playing poolitics????
The GOP wants a worse fix than you are complaining about here and nothing from you on that????

All public pensioneers like myself must give a little before the dam breaks.
You don't get that do YOU ????

Can that be changed? No. What can be stopped however is the asinine legislation to give $100 million for a Library for an undeserving cretin.

What is the matter with you? You started responding to me in post #14 I never mentioned the Dems once. I said POLITICIANS, that means POLITICIANS both DEMS and GOPers. Jesus H....

The GOP has a better chance of seeing Moses and Jesus on the corner of 53 and Cottage shooting dice than changing the IL State Constitution so it isn't a thought worth entertaining.

Hey, there you go, there is an idea, you wanna give up what you are rightfully entitled to? Call'em up and tell them you'll forgo your benefits, by all means, get others to do the same. Those who worked for and earned them who'd like to receive them in their entirety would greatly appreciate it.


You don't get that it can be fixed, the politicians just have to give up all their sweethearts and kickbacks they receive for catering to the special interests who have them under their thumb.

YOU don' get that, DO YOU???????????????

 

[Linc]

be that as it may, this pension **** is theft and breach of contract, pure and simple.

Be that as it may, it doesn't solve the 200 billion dollar black hole in Illinois.
Public pensioneers will get a rude awakening when amendments start getting passed to State Constitutions.
I am a chemist--I believe in solutions--Quinn's fix just barely scratches the service.

You have now equated all public pension funds mnas untouchable.
When they go bankrupt as in Detroit, the federal judges will be giving 50 cents on the dollar.
We'll see how smart aqll the public pensioneers are, including the military ones .

 

[Helix]

Be that as it may, it doesn't solve the 200 billion dollar black hole in Illinois.
Public pensioneers will get a rude awakening when amendments start getting passed to State Constitutions.
I am a chemist--I believe in solutions--Quinn's fix just barely scratches the service.

You have now equated all public pension funds mnas untouchable.
When they go bankrupt as in Detroit, the federal judges will be giving 50 cents on the dollar.
We'll see how smart aqll the public pensioneers are, including the military ones .

if it is unthinkable to give you a retroactive pay cut and then send you a bill for the difference, then pension reductions are the same kind of theft. it is the exact same thing. both are salary agreed to under contract.

 

[Linc]

Can that be changed? No.
What can be stopped however is the asinine legislation to give $100 million for a Library for an undeserving cretin.

You just can't let your derailing on the Obama library go, along with your ODS calling him a cretin--poor show!!!!
Being a rightwinger who is acting like a NIMBY and fiscally irresponsible on pension debt is so GOP ....

 

[ChezC3]

There was never an intent to fullfil. Also, always blame the voters.

So a multi billion, possibly trillion dollar lawsuit is waiting in the wings for fraud, false advertisement, or some other charge is what you're telling me?

The blame for all of this lies squarely on the shoulders of the politicians.

 

[Linc]

There is no ret6roactive pay cut.
There is a freeze on COLA for a few years.
It is uinthinkable that intelligent people can't see the economics of a black hole by asking for a raise in retirement each year.
I will help lead the charge to an amendment on my own pension, especially after talking to you people .

if it is unthinkable to give you a retroactive pay cut and then send you a bill for the difference, then pension reductions are the same kind of theft. it is the exact same thing. both are salary agreed to under contract.

 

[ChezC3]

You just can't let your derailimg on the Obama library go, along with your ODS calling him a cretin--poor show!!!!
Being a rightwinger who is acting like a NIMBY and fiscally irresponsible on pension debt is so GOP ....

I just can't let go the waste of IL tax payer funds on an undeserving swine politician? NOPE.

 

[Linc]

The blame for all of this lies squarely on the shoulders of the politicians.

both sides--but far be it for you to propose a solut6ion.

 

[Linc]

You break the golden rule of an OP, hyperpartisan derailing .

I just can't let go the waste of IL tax payer funds on an undeserving swine politician? NOPE.

 

[MMC]

Yep, and before 2003 it was the GOP for 26 years as governor.
Way to not be even-handed as we would expect.

Thompson was in charge when the shortchange to the TRS was 400 million a year for 14 straight years.
How much interest do you think was lot on all that money that wasn't there????

But Big Jim has his cushy government pension and health care, very appropriate to this thread.
Your noise on Jesse Jackson, not so much.
Your OL's Union is just as responsible as any entity for this problem, which will dwarf Detroit because nobody gives any more .

I see history wasn't a strong suit of yours.


An ex-prosecutor himself, Thompson went on to win by the largest plurality in Illinois history. Now the two of them are playing house in the 42-room Victorian governor's mansion. That, she observes, is "not bad for a couple of kids from the West Side of Chicago."

Thompson grew up in Chicago's Garfield Park section, the son of a pathologist. "Fascinated by politics," he went to the University of Illinois, Washington University in St. Louis and Northwestern Law School. After a stretch with the Cook County state attorney's office, he returned to Northwestern to teach law.

So far the governor is getting mixed grades on his performance in the capital. While he's balanced the state budget, the rest of his program is bogged down in the Democratic-controlled legislature. Assembly Speaker William Redmond thinks "Thompson is obviously learning on the job, but he should try to be a good governor before he tries to run for President." Another Democratic foe adds sarcastically that Thompson "is a good politician. How else can a guy go around selling nothing?" ....snip~

If Politics Is a Greasy Pole, Illinois Governor Jim Thompson & Wife Jayne Are Enjoying the Slide : People.com

 

[Helix]

There is no ret6roactive pay cut.
There is a freeze on COLA for a few years.
It is uinthinkable that intelligent people can't see the economics of a black hole by asking for a raise in retirement each year.
I will help lead the charge to an amendment on my own pension, especially after talking to you people .

There was a retroactive pay cut here. They took the payout we were guaranteed upon hire, brought in a third party to skim off the top, and significantly reduced what we are going to get.

Theft, pure and simple.

 

[ChezC3]

both sides--but far be it for you to propose a solut6ion.

If you'd quit trying to cover the Dems backside and derail this thread crying about that which I did not do you could see the proposals I made...