Jon Stewart is educated by Ezra Klein on Government Regulation

[Atreus21]

Sorry, but Elmo is already too far embedded and reliant on the US government. Time to get him farther away.

That's right. Let these people go without so democrats can feel good about themselves. That's what matters.

 

[Dans La Lune]

What you failed to realize is that the fixes Ezra Klein is talking about will require eliminating government jobs...

Republicans are just up front about it.

Yes, Republicans are sick sociopathic freaks. Government jobs are jobs that need to be done to keep society functioning. They also sustain entire families. Finally, they are more important than 90% of private sector jobs.

 

[Dans La Lune]

China builds 5G towers in Urban areas, not rural areas.

If we hake the $1 million cost to serve, say, 50 homes in a 10 mile radius, that is an initial outlay of $20,000 per user, and that is in the optimal conditions where all of those customers can get signal from that one tower.

Conversely, if they can see the sky they have Starlink.

A garbage service that could become vaporware, and requires sending expensive space junk into orbit. Canada shut down a 100 million contract with Starlink. Hopefully it will go into proper infrastructure.

Not in remote locations. And the cost of maintaining a 5G tower is closer to $50k annually, which only makes fiscal sense when that tower is serving 50,000 users not 50.

Oooo $50k, or one barely middle class income. LOL. What's $50,000 divided by 50? $1000 a YEAR. That's less than I pay for internet. Starklink would cost several times that, excluding the enormous setup cost.

Please make this harder for me. I get bored easily.

Starlink Constellation cost effective because the same satellite constellation that servers those remote homes can server millions of other customers nationally.

To give you a snapshot of efficiency: Starlink servers the whole world currently with 7,000 Starlink satellites, while the US alone has 350,000 cell towers and currently doesn't serve many rural areas.

I drive about 20 miles to work through rural Northern VA, about the most advanced rural area in the country, and there is a 5 to 6 mile stretch there where I get no cell service.



Nope. That is the speed you can get in "rural" areas that butt up against suburban areas. In an unobstructed 10 mile broadcast you get 100mbps. Most of these rural areas won't have 10 miles of unobstructed geography. The only way a signal travels 10 miles in those areas is up.

You are thinking about this program as serving people just outside the suburban sprawl, but that's not the case.



You don't understand either technology and it shows.

I not an expert, I'm just more of an expert than you.

 

[jmotivator]

Yes, Republicans are sick sociopathic freaks. Government jobs are jobs that need to be done to keep society functioning. They also sustain entire families. Finally, they are more important than 90% of private sector jobs.

LOL!! And by Sick Sociopaths you mean telling you that in order to make government more efficient we will need to end some federal jobs?

Your idiotic admiration for "government job" as a concept, rather than actually questioning if specific Government jobs are necessary is just so very progressive of you.

Private sector people lose their jobs every day when the consumer public decides with their wallet that their job is no longer necessary.

This is why private sector is efficient and public sector is not.

 

[jmotivator]

A garbage service that could become vaporware, and requires sending expensive space junk into orbit.

You wouldn't be a progressive if you didn't curb stomp your own arguments...

You: Precocious Government Workers have families and... puppies.. and orphans and stuff how dare you talk about downsizing YOU SOCIOPATH!!

Also You: I've decided that a globally successful Satellite internet company is trash because my emotions are more important than facts. BURN IT ALL DOWN!!

Canada shut down a 100 million contract with Starlink. Hopefully it will go into proper infrastructure.

Canada has made a lot of shit decisions in the last 10 years. It's why their GDP has been stagnant since COVID.

Oooo $50k, or one barely middle class income. LOL. What's $50,000 divided by 50? $1000 a YEAR. That's less than I pay for internet. Starklink would cost several times that, excluding the enormous setup cost.

You really are having a hard time noodling this, aren't you? If that tower serves 10 homes due to how remote they are, then the cell provider would need to charge them each $417 a month just to cover the cost of the tower maintenance before they get into the bandwidth and other costs.

Again, cell providers have all done the math, and that is why there is little to no cell service in remote rural towns.

Please make this harder for me. I get bored easily.

I keep trying to give your the data so that you can think harder if you want, but you keep not understanding it.

I not an expert, I'm just more of an expert than you.

HAHAHAHA!!!! Unfortunately for you, you have exposed the falsehood in that statement all on your own. I didn't even need to say anything.

 

[Dans La Lune]

You wouldn't be a progressive if you didn't curb stomp your own arguments...

You: Precocious Government Workers have families and... puppies.. and orphans and stuff how dare you talk about downsizing YOU SOCIOPATH!!

Also You: I've decided that a globally successful Satellite internet company is trash because my emotions are more important than facts. BURN IT ALL DOWN!!

Why is Starlink successful? Because it is a government contractor.

Canada has made a lot of shit decisions in the last 10 years. It's why their GDP has been stagnant since COVID.

I'm less concerned with infinite growth than I am with government providing services to its people. And what is America's economy even based on at this point? Make Number Go Up?

You really are having a hard time noodling this, aren't you? If that tower serves 10 homes due to how remote they are, then the cell provider would need to charge them each $417 a month just to cover the cost of the tower maintenance before they get into the bandwidth and other costs.

You originally said 50. Nice moving of the goalposts. Will you reduce it to 1 person per cell tower in your follow up?

Again, cell providers have all done the math, and that is why there is little to no cell service in remote rural towns.

The Post Office can deliver mail for under a dollar to rural towns for a reason. Can you guess the reason?

I keep trying to give your the data so that you can think harder if you want, but you keep not understanding it.

I gave you the numbers and the comparisons between Starjunk and 5G.

HAHAHAHA!!!! Unfortunately for you, you have exposed the falsehood in that statement all on your own. I didn't even need to say anything.

You decide your own level of participation.

 

[Dans La Lune]

LOL!! And by Sick Sociopaths you mean telling you that in order to make government more efficient we will need to end some federal jobs?

Wow, there's still people who actually believe this.

Your idiotic admiration for "government job" as a concept, rather than actually questioning if specific Government jobs are necessary is just so very progressive of you.

Who determines the necessity of a government job? A South African Apartheid drug-addled Nazi who thinks he's going to Mars? Big Balls? I'm sure the due dilligence went into every decision.

Look, were never going to agree on this. You think society doesn't need government, and thus you have no problem with rich people dismantling it for their benefit. I get it. We have a fundamentally different world view, and we live in completely different moral universes.

Private sector people lose their jobs every day when the consumer public decides with their wallet that their job is no longer necessary.

Because Elon says so.

This is why private sector is efficient and public sector is not.

Post Office vs. FedEx. Or hell, Universal Healthcare vs. Commercial Healthcare.

 

[Visbek]

A few thoughts:

1) It wouldn't be for "20 people", it would be for a household.

Yes, because businesses and other organizations with more than 20 people don't exist in rural areas.

2) 220 mbps is PLEANTY of bandwidth for 20 people. You don't need 2 gbps, up or down.

You do, if you have more than 20 people in your business.

3) the Rural Broadband project only requires 20 mbps down and 3 up.

LOL

First of all, that's not the entire "Rural Broadband Project," not even close. It's the USDA's "ReConnect Program." That is only a small part of the total effort. $65 billion was allocated, and only $2 billion goes to the ReConnect Program:



Most of the funding, as you can see, went to the NTIA Broadband Equity, Access, And Deployment (BEAD) Program. States basically wrote their own proposals. Or perhaps you think that a federal mandate to buy just one company's product is somehow better than letting states determine what's best for their constituents?

Second: Surprise! Your blatant attempt to quote mine is an Epic Fail. The USDA most certainly did NOT say that the goal is to get everyone to a minimum of 25 up and 3 down -- what you highly selectively quoted is the official definition of an underserved area. The goal is symmetrical 100mbps. Here's some of the stuff you "conveniently" left out:

4) Nobody, and I mean nobody is running fiber to rural homes.

Surprise! This isn't exclusively about "rural homes," not by a long shot. For example, the ReConnect Program which you quote-mined is eligible for:

• Corporations
• Limited Liability Companies and Limited Liability Partnerships
• Cooperatives or mutual organizations
• States or local governments, including any agency, subdivision, instrumentality of political subdivision thereof
• A territory or possession of the United States
•An Indian Tribe, as defined in Section 4 of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act (25 U.S.C. §450b)

https://www.usda.gov/sustainability/infrastructure/broadband/reconnect-loan-and-grant-program/program-overview

By the way, all those applicants? Yeah, the government needs to make sure they're using the grant money properly. That requires... wait for it... a whole Reporting & Compliance system to verify the grants. Notice how something that seems so simple (giving a business a grant to install a terrestrial Internet line) requires all sorts of bureaucracy, in order to meet goals such as "reducing fraud"?

Starlink can beat the Rural Broadband contract requirements by a factor of 9 today....

Please.

Aside from the fact that you blatantly ignored the program's actual goals, the only reason you're saying "Starlink" is because Musk owns it, and you think mentioning it somehow pwns teh libz.

And again, Starlink simply isn't good enough to meet the program's goals. BIPARTISAN goals, by the way.

 

[jmotivator]

Yes, because businesses and other organizations with more than 20 people don't exist in rural areas.

I didn't say there weren't 20 people businesses, I said they don't need 2 gbps internet speeds, because they don't.

The closes thing I have ever come to a scenario like this was a fairly small internet company that hosted rack space for small businesses for internet access. It, however, was chosen because the land sat right on top of a convergence of several internet trunk lines and that company had the permit to tap into it from a nearby ISP hub.

From the outside you'd think this company was sitting out in the middle of nowhere, but that was back in 2002. Today that little rural hamlet of Loudon VA houses pretty a large portion of the internet and sprawls numerous campuses.. but at no time was that site rural by Internet standards.

You do, if you have more than 20 people in your business.

No, you don't. Can you come up with a scenario with a business out in the middle of nowhere that current has no broadband options that has 20 employees with a need for constant 2gbps internet speed?

I'd like to have a talk with that company CTO so I can call him a moron.

First of all, that's not the entire "Rural Broadband Project," not even close. It's the USDA's "ReConnect Program." That is only a small part of the total effort. $65 billion was allocated, and only $2 billion goes to the ReConnect Program:

View attachment 67563074

Nope, the vast majority of the project is down there in that "BEAD" program, which is precisely funding for building out internet Infrastructure in rural areas.

You like to type very long posts based on either purposeful deception, or flat ignorance. In this case you could have saved yourself some embarrassment by simply scanning for the number "42" and and then read what followed.

 

[Visbek]

Starling doesn't require clear skies.

All satellite Internet service can be impeded by bad weather, as well as bad "space weather" (i.e. solar flares). Sometimes this can be a simple fix (e.g. wind misaligning the dish).

Another issue is that satellite bandwidth is shared -- meaning slower performance during normal use times (e.g 8AM to 11PM).

The bigger issue, again, is that satellite isn't sufficient for a lot of rural uses.

By the way, it took Starlink 5 years to provide a phone number for customer support, in late 2024.

And while we are on that subject, imagine a good ice or wind storm takes out a telephone pole that was run through the woods to your home... how long do you suppose before your service is retored.

Lots of terrestrial lines are underground, by the way.

All you need to do is look to the devastation from Hurricane Helene to see the folly in your argument. They had Starling up and serving survivors almost immediately, long before the power grid was restored.

What a crock of shit. They didn't "set up survivors immediately" -- do you think they were sending dishes to uninhabitable homes?

No, they just used it as an advertisement opportunity. They charged those hurricane-afflicted customers full price for the hardware, and offered 30 days free, which... they offer to all new customers.

Why do you keep touting Starlink again, and act like no other satellite providers exist...? (Yes, that's a rhetorical question; your motivation is obvious.)

 

[Visbek]

I didn't say there weren't 20 people businesses, I said they don't need 2 gbps internet speeds, because they don't.

Unless they do. Again, 200 down / 15 up is not sufficient for lots of businesses and organizations.

The closes thing I have ever come to a scenario like this was a fairly small internet company that hosted rack space...

Wow. Good thing you've worked for every type of business, and aren't biased.

No, you don't. Can you come up with a scenario with a business out in the middle of nowhere that current has no broadband options that has 20 employees with a need for constant 2gbps internet speed?

Lol... OK, how about:
• Schools
• Hospitals
• Doctor's offices
• Manufacturing
• Government offices
• Post offices
• Pretty much anything with more than 20 employees

By the way, more and more businesses -- and individuals -- are relying on cloud services now. That benefits greatly from higher bandwidth, lower latency, and higher reliability, which are hallmarks of... wait for it... terrestrial services, not satellite.

Nope, the vast majority of the project is down there in that "BEAD" program...

Again! You didn't quote the BEAD program. You selectively quoted the USDA ReConnect Program, in a vain attempt to deliberately misrepresent its requirements.

How did you miss the fact that the ReConnect program offers grants for 100 up / 100 down service? I literally pointed to it with an arrow and circled it for you.

You like to type very long posts based on either purposeful deception, or flat ignorance.

Please. Your accusation is merely a confession. You lied egregiously about the program, you got busted, just admit it.

 

[Threegoofs]

Unless they do. Again, 200 down / 15 up is not sufficient for lots of businesses and organizations.


Wow. Good thing you've worked for every type of business, and aren't biased.


Lol... OK, how about:
• Schools
• Hospitals
• Doctor's offices
• Manufacturing
• Government offices
• Post offices
• Pretty much anything with more than 20 employees

By the way, more and more businesses -- and individuals -- are relying on cloud services now. That benefits greatly from higher bandwidth, lower latency, and higher reliability, which are hallmarks of... wait for it... terrestrial services, not satellite.




Again! You didn't quote the BEAD program. You selectively quoted the USDA ReConnect Program, in a vain attempt to deliberately misrepresent its requirements.

How did you miss the fact that the ReConnect program offers grants for 100 up / 100 down service? I literally pointed to it with an arrow and circled it for you.




Please. Your accusation is merely a confession. You lied egregiously about the program, you got busted, just admit it.

I’m just confused on how jmotivator can still post in this thread. The pain from the new asshole he’s had torn must be excruciating.

 

[Dans La Lune]

So again, how is this 'Abundance' thing not just repackaged neoliberalism? How many times can you repackage the same product?

 

[Visbek]

So again, how is this 'Abundance' thing not just repackaged neoliberalism? How many times can you repackage the same product?

Yeah, that's not quite clear.

The general concept is that if government provides an abundance of some basic things, like housing and health care and food, then everyone will love the Democrats.

In theory it seems like some of this involves removing regulations? I have to say, it's really not clear what exactly they are proposing that wouldn't seriously piss off some people. E.g. fixing the housing affordability crisis will require building lots of higher-density housing and enhancing public transportation. However, there's a lot of NIMBYs out there who are (incorrectly) convinced that building a multi-unit apartment at the end of the block will destroy their property values.

Or: The only real way to reduce health care costs is with a true single-payer or socialized system. However, lots of Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that is somehow "evil."

It also seems rather absurd that at a time when Republicans are executing an all-out assault on democracy, with the intention of seizing permanent control of the federal government, that they believe they can get any of this off the ground.

We also know that Democrats have spent years trying to do things that benefit rural communities, for example, but never get credit for it; and Republicans keep screwing rural voters and never get held accountable for it. There may be some good ideas buried in the Abundance Agenda Haze, but I seriously doubt it will produce the results they want.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Sam Seder really takes it to Klein's 'Abundance' theory / strategy or whatever it is.

 

[Slartibartfast]

That's right. Let these people go without so democrats can feel good about themselves. That's what matters.

I mean, that's kind of the situation with tariffs right now. Cause economic devastation so MAGA can feel better about factory work.

 

[Atreus21]

I mean, that's kind of the situation with tariffs right now. Cause economic devastation so MAGA can feel better about factory work.

You"ll get no argument from me about that. These tariffs are going to be Trump's Afghanistan withdrawal. Such a stupid unforced error.