Navy Pride
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 39,883
- Reaction score
- 3,070
- Location
- Pacific NW
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
26 X World Champs said:So you're therefore OK with people posting lies about her and writing:
that lying traitor skank bitch?
Post the truth, isn't that enough? Making up stuff is the lamest form of debating and completely discounts any truthful statments someone might make.
How come you never post links to the stuff that you post and you ignore any post that challenges you to prove yourself yet you do defend someone who doesn't post proof?Navy Pride said:Hoot, come on man, you know Kerry said those things....The links have been posted over and over again.....
Navy Pride said:Hoot, come on man, you know Kerry said those things....The links have been posted over and over again.....
26 X World Champs said:How come you never post links to the stuff that you post and you ignore any post that challenges you to prove yourself yet you do defend someone who doesn't post proof?
It's amazing! You won't respond to anyone who poiints out your enormous mistakes in your posts (through proof) yet you do respond to someone who asks for proof by saying: The links have been posted over and over again.!
Truth is tough to disprove when backed by links, but liars always use the The links have been posted over and over again. cop-out cut and run excuse all the time.
I would like to see proof for the things that Kerry is being accused of, I've never seen the links you purport and I've been here quite awhile...so how about it?
Hoot said:This is old news, Navy Pride, so I don't really care, but I certainly don't remember any link where kerry says he helped burn down villages, which is what easyt65 states in his post?
I think he's afraid to state where he got this info.
26 X World Champs said:Unbelievable! Surely you're not going to be another basher who never proves anything that you post, are you? In a debate it is up to the person posting "facts" to prove them, not for someone else to try to not find them?
Your post is pure BS unless you can prove it through a creditable source, period. Otherwise your posts are simply propaganda and lies. Prove what you claim or facts or expect to have no one believe your posts, that's how it works around here.
Hoot said:This is old news, Navy Pride, so I don't really care, but I certainly don't remember any link where kerry says he helped burn down villages, which is what easyt65 states in his post?
I think he's afraid to state where he got this info.
Navy Pride said:Its been posted over and over again that Kerry under oath to a congressional committe in 1971 said he participated in burning villages and firing in free fire zones...........Now its one of 2 things........If he actually did that then he is a war criminal and should have been brought up on charges.........If he didn't do them then he perjured himself..........
hipsterdufus said:You - more than anyone should know about the fog of war. Do you want to go after every Vietnam Vet that committed these and other atrocities and prosecute them as war criminals?
Kerry was/is a hero to me for the eloquent way he stood up and spoke from his heart. A soldier is not a traitor if he doesn't believe in the cause.
We're seeing that now with Iraqi vets like Paul Hackett.
Yes, Kerry was a young man in his 20's at the time, and now he would testify in a way that would lull us all to a deep deep sleep :mrgreen:
[mod mode]26 X World Champs said:Couldn't help but notice that your propaganda post here has no link whatsoever? I also find it astonishing that you actually believe that we would believe that Jane Fonda said, according to you, these exact words:
"Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"
I find it impossible to believe that she or any American would use the propaganda term "benevolent captors."
How come you can't simply post the truth? Why must you twist the truth so far that your posts are laughed at by all? :roll:
galenrox said:[mod mode]
:smash:
Alright, I apologize for the delayed reaction to this.
26 x World Champs, you're officially taking a vacation, 7 days.
You knew we weren't going to tolerate stuff like this much more, and yet you continued to do it. I don't know if you thought we were just joking or what, but anywho, you attempted to call our bluff just to find out we weren't bluffing. Your behavior is consistantly uncivil, and has been for some time.
Also, I would like to point out to you that I am not a conservative. This should dispell any notion you have that you are being targeted due to your politics and not your actions, and possibly make you understand what "unanimous" means.
So enjoy your break and we'll see you in a week. If this continues, you'll have to find some place else to spend your time, because next time I can assure you will be permanant.
[/mod mode]
Hoot said:I'm going on record as objecting to this dismissal. What exactly has 26x's said that is so awful?
This is why I left AOL. There were message board monitors that allowed those imaginery powers to go to their heads.
I'm sorry, but I see a double standard here.
Perhaps those of you who were elected monitors...(opps...you weren't elected, were you?) Perhaps some of you monitors need to take a step back and regain a bit more objectivity?
easyt65 said:Kerry said he, himself, took part in the burning of villages.
Iriemon: In the Congressional testimony he reported on war crimes that others told him they did (cutting off ears, heads, rape, etc.). Kerry said he did not do these things.
No - in his testimony under oath, he stated that he WITNESSED these acts but later recanted!
You said it - I didn't...but as I said, I am not going to spoon-feed you! I have better things to do than keep proving things to liberals/people who are too lazy to look up things for themselves on the internet! The things I have posted are proven, reported facts. Just because you are ignorant to them doesn't mean I have to do the work for YOU to prove them to you. Take our head out of the chat room and from making comments based on your own opinion for a minute, and do a little research yourself. It just might change the way you feel about your UBER Patriot, Kerry. Then again.... I doubt it!
Navy Pride said:All I can say is you don't have very high standards for picking your heroes my friend.......I consider people like McCain my hero......
Iriemon said:I'll call you on that. Please show us the quote where Kerry said he WITNESSED acts of rape, cutting off ears, heads, etc.
What is this, the new conservative debate tactic? Make assertions as to statements of a person, and then when asked for proof of the statement, either cut-n-run or make same lame statement about how you aren't going to look it up?
First Navy Pride -- we've come to expect it from him -- then Oldreliable, and now you.
Not an impressive debate tactic, IMO. Claim someone said something that you can't back up.
I note the conservatives are quick to demand the source whenever liberals make a statement. But they don't feel they have to follow their own rules, I guess.
Hoot said:I'm going on record as objecting to this dismissal. What exactly has 26x's said that is so awful?
This is why I left AOL. There were message board monitors that allowed those imaginery powers to go to their heads.
I'm sorry, but I see a double standard here.
Perhaps those of you who were elected monitors...(opps...you weren't elected, were you?) Perhaps some of you monitors need to take a step back and regain a bit more objectivity?
Iriemon said:Concur. .
Trajan Octavian Titus said:Nope I'll show you his exact words, now can you defend this load of crap:
and here's a link to the full transcript of that testimony that he gave to the Senate Committee:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=3875422
Here's Kerry admitting to war crimes:
MR. CROSBY NOYES (Washington Evening Star): Mr. Kerry, you said at one time or another that you think our policies in Vietnam are tantamount to genocide and that the responsibility lies at all chains of command over there. Do you consider that you personally as a Naval officer committed atrocities in Vietnam or crimes punishable by law in this country?
SEN. KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
(End audiotape)
http://hnn.us/articles/3552.html
]And here's Kerry admitting to treason:
Trajan Octavian Titus said:Nope I'll show you his exact words, now can you defend this load of crap:
and here's a link to the full transcript of that testimony that he gave to the Senate Committee:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=3875422
Here's Kerry admitting to war crimes:
MR. CROSBY NOYES (Washington Evening Star): Mr. Kerry, you said at one time or another that you think our policies in Vietnam are tantamount to genocide and that the responsibility lies at all chains of command over there. Do you consider that you personally as a Naval officer committed atrocities in Vietnam or crimes punishable by law in this country?
SEN. KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
(End audiotape)
http://hnn.us/articles/3552.html
]And here's Kerry admitting to treason:
Iriemon said:First of all, thank you for actually posting quotes with sources. That is worthy of respect.
Your link didn't work for me, so I used this one: http://www.c-span.org/vote2004/jkerrytestimony.asp
It the part you quoted, Kerry starts off with "They told the stories ..." Who is the "they? Cite the tesimony in context and it becomes clear.
Kerry: "Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator Symington, Senator Pell. I would like to say for the record, and also for the men behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony."
What was Kerry referring to when he said "the group"? You have to read the preliminary statement made just before Kerry began speaking.
"Senator Javits: Mr. Chairman, I was down there to the veterans' camp yesterday and saw the New York group and I would like to say I am very proud of the deportment and general attitude of the group."
Kerry is talking about veterans in the group, at most those who opposed the vietnam war. Although not stated explicitly, and the time all knew the group was the VVAW. Obviously, he was not speaking on behalf of all veterans.
As to the head chopping attrocities, let's include the rest of the story:
"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.
It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.
They told the stories stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies ...
The "they" refers to the testimony of the 150.
Trajan Octavian Titus said:Well if he spoke on their behalf under oath to a senate committe hearing then his statements had damn sure better have been accurate and if his statements were in fact accurate then this 'they' needs to be tracked down and held accountable for their war crimes, and if Kerry's statements were inaccurate then he lied under oath and he needs to be held accountable for perjury.
The actual testimony that proves my point. NOWHERE in that statement or anywhere else does Kerry say he personally WITNESSED cutting off heads, ears, rape and things of that nature, or otherwise defend the load of crap you are trying to defend.
Trajan Octavian Titus said:Nope he admitted to commiting them himself:
SEN. KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
(End audiotape)
And if he took part in it then so is he.
I find it amazing that Kerry committed treason, yet the Nixon Administration -- not particularly know for its relaxed attitude towards crime in general and anti-war protestors in particular, did nothing about it.
Iriemon said:I find it amazing that Kerry committed treason, yet the Nixon Administration -- not particularly know for its relaxed attitude towards crime in general and anti-war protestors in particular, did nothing about it.
galenrox said:[mod mode]
:smash:
Alright, I apologize for the delayed reaction to this.
26 x World Champs, you're officially taking a vacation, 7 days.
You knew we weren't going to tolerate stuff like this much more, and yet you continued to do it. I don't know if you thought we were just joking or what, but anywho, you attempted to call our bluff just to find out we weren't bluffing. Your behavior is consistantly uncivil, and has been for some time.
Also, I would like to point out to you that I am not a conservative. This should dispell any notion you have that you are being targeted due to your politics and not your actions, and possibly make you understand what "unanimous" means.
So enjoy your break and we'll see you in a week. If this continues, you'll have to find some place else to spend your time, because next time I can assure you will be permanant.
[/mod mode]
Trajan Octavian Titus said:I don't care if he was prosecuted for it the fact remains that by his own words before the senate committee hearing in 1971 he admitted to it.
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