Jews in the Qur'an.

[stevecanuck]

This is a summary of the Qur'an's treatment of Jews, also known as "Children of Israel", "those entrusted with the Torah", and (along with Christians) "People of the Book''. It will be presented in compilation order rather than chronologically with context provided as necessary. I will pick away at this as time permits. I have no idea how long it will take me to cover all references to "al yahud (اليهود)".

• Quotes in italics are copied directly from one of the seven English translations from https://corpus.quran.com.
• Italicized comments in parentheses are from the translator.
• Unitalicized comments in square braces are mine.

Surah 2 (12 years into Islam's evolution) is the first time Mohamed (the Qur'an) spoke directly to Jews. He had left his home in Mecca for the largely Jewish city of Yathrib (now known as Medina) claiming to be running for his life from the Pagans. The Jews welcomed him - an act of kindness that would lead to their annihilation in only five years.

I can only imagine the Jew's surprise to hear that Mohamed expected them to believe in the Qur'an as further revelations from God. In essence he thanked them for taking him in by telling them they must become Muslims:

2:40-41 - Children of Israel, remember My blessing wherewith I blessed you, and fulfil My covenant and I shall fulfil your covenant; and have awe of Me. And believe in that which I reveal, [the Qur'an] confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture) [the Torah].

 

[Ginger Ale]

Muslims treated Jews like second class citizens historically, and they even had to dress a certain way so they knew who to treat badly from what I've heard.

the second-class status given to the dhimmi under Islamic law meant that restrictions and oppression could be employed, and the Genizah records outbreaks of harsh discriminatory actions and even violence against the Jews.https://exhibitions.lib.cam.ac.uk/discardedhistory/case/second-class-citizens/

 

[stevecanuck]

* I've added verse 2:43 to 2:40-41 in the first post.*

In essence he thanked them for taking him in by telling them they must become Muslims and adopt Islamic pillars of paying the Zakat and praying as do Muslims:

2:40-41, 43 - Children of Israel, remember My blessing wherewith I blessed you, and fulfil My covenant and I shall fulfil your covenant; and have awe of Me. And believe in that which I reveal, [the Qur'an] confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture) [the Torah]. Be steadfast in prayer, pay the religious tax (zakat) and bow down in worship with those who do the same.

Verses 2:47-74 reiterate Old Testament stories, mostly of Moses. Allah reminded the Jews of their history, their covenant with Him, the favors He granted them, the times He intervened on their behalf, and of their transgressions, such as worshipping the golden calf. Additionally, and probably surprisingly, Allah accused them of killing His previous prophets although said prophets are never named and nothing in biblical accounts supports this claim. Most of this Biblical recap must have sounded familiar to them, but an odd aspect of the dressing down that they found themselves absorbing is that much of it was anachronistically framed in the present tense. These verse's 35 uses of second-person conjugations seemingly transported the Jews of Yathrib into events of the past as though they were the transgressors rather than their ancestors. The third person is occasionally employed, which only serves to create confusing and apparently random trips back and forth in time. One contribution to corpus.quran.com tried to hide this temporal discontinuity in its translation of verse 2:49. The Sahih International Qur'an says, "We saved your forefathers from the people of Pharaoh'' in open denial of the 2nd person pronoun "you" in the original Arabic. This pronoun peculiarity is repeated in later verses.

An unfortunate effect of this grammatical to and fro is that verses written in the present tense remain so for all time, thereby making all 'current' Jews appear responsible for the alleged sins of their forefathers. Eventually, in what looks like an attempt to clear up any resulting confusion, and perhaps in response to Jews who did not appreciate being blamed for events of the past, Mohamed revealed verses 2:134 and 2:141 - "This is a people that have passed away; they shall have what they earned and you shall have what you earn, and you shall not be called upon to answer for what they did".

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Muslims treated Jews like second class citizens historically, and they even had to dress a certain way so they knew who to treat badly from what I've heard.

the second-class status given to the dhimmi under Islamic law meant that restrictions and oppression could be employed, and the Genizah records outbreaks of harsh discriminatory actions and even violence against the Jews.https://exhibitions.lib.cam.ac.uk/discardedhistory/case/second-class-citizens/

Depends on what you mean by historically. If you mean the last 150 years or so that is correct. If you go back much further than that it is flipped and the various Muslim caliphates were religiously tolerant even by modern standards.

 

[MamboDervish]

There is very little understanding to be gained in our current situation by quoting the qu'ran, any more than can be gained by quoting the bible. Fundamental adherence to either book is folly, and can only lead to unspeakable violence.

Best to put both books as far back in our rear view mirror as we have with worshiping Zeus, or Ba'al, or Horus.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Depends on what you mean by historically. If you mean the last 150 years or so that is correct. If you go back much further than that it is flipped and the various Muslim caliphates were religiously tolerant even by modern standards.

I guess I should have put the whole quote to show the timeline.
Here:
From the end of the 10th century, Egypt was incorporated into the Shi’ite Fatimid Caliphate. The large Jewish and Christian population was generally treated fairly by the Fatimids, and Jews were even admitted into senior government positions. But the second-class status given to the dhimmi under Islamic law meant that restrictions and oppression could be employed, and the Genizah records outbreaks of harsh discriminatory actions and even violence against the Jews.

 

[stevecanuck]

There is very little understanding to be gained in our current situation by quoting the qu'ran

The Qur'an exists for the singular purpose of creating and defining Islam. It is the Islam's constitution, it's manifesto, it's founding document. If you want to know why so many Muslims hate Jews, you have to read the Arabic equivalent of Mein Kampf.

 

[devildavid]

The Qur'an exists for the singular purpose of creating and defining Islam. It is the Islam's constitution, it's manifesto, it's founding document. If you want to know why so many Muslims hate Jews, you have to read the Arabic equivalent of Mein Kampf.

No, it does not. Islam did not come from a book. No religion did.

 

[j brown's body]

Depends on what you mean by historically. If you mean the last 150 years or so that is correct. If you go back much further than that it is flipped and the various Muslim caliphates were religiously tolerant even by modern standards.

Whereas when the Christian Crusaders hit Jerusalem, the city ran ankle deep in Jewish and Muslim blood.

 

[j brown's body]

The Qur'an exists for the singular purpose of creating and defining Islam. It is the Islam's constitution, it's manifesto, it's founding document. If you want to know why so many Muslims hate Jews, you have to read the Arabic equivalent of Mein Kampf.

The Bible certainly helps explain why Christians hate Jews.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

In the last few thousand years NONE of the major religions have made life better or made it clear how being good earns you salvation.
Sorry, none of them, nothing, never.
People who do not belong to an organized religion do far more with far less, for more people, and always have and always will.

All the world's religions can go straight to Hell. ALL OF THEM.

 

[stevecanuck]

No, it does not. Islam did not come from a book. No religion did.

Your dog must have eaten the part where you explain where Islam comes from.

 

[devildavid]

Your dog must have eaten the part where you explain where Islam comes from.

Islam factually began before the Koran was written. And it certainly began before it was finalized and disseminated to those who were literate enough to read it and understand it.

 

[Exquisitor]

The Bible certainly helps explain why Christians hate Jews.

Come on, they did pretty good for the descendants of Jericho.

 

[Exquisitor]

No, it does not. Islam did not come from a book. No religion did.

The Indian priests wrote some books for the descendants of Jericho.

 

[stevecanuck]

Islam factually began before the Koran was written.

When and by whom? You're always long on claims and short on details.

And it certainly began before it was finalized and disseminated to those who were literate enough to read it and understand it.

Everybody knows the Qur'an was 'received' and taught orally by Mohamed, and that it wasn't compiled into written form until well after his death. Nothing new there. Again, if you have a point, you do a piss poor job of making it.

 

[sevendaysaweek]

Whereas when the Christian Crusaders hit Jerusalem, the city ran ankle deep in Jewish and Muslim blood.

Yep, they bragged in letters that they didn't leave a soul alive.

 

[sevendaysaweek]

An unfortunate effect of this grammatical to and fro is that verses written in the present tense remain so for all time, thereby making all 'current' Jews appear responsible for the alleged sins of their forefathers.

If you had even a marginal knowledge of Islam you would know that that is against the basic principles of Islam and there are no exceptions to that. Any single Jew is responsible only for their own deeds.

 

[MamboDervish]

The Qur'an exists for the singular purpose of creating and defining Islam. It is the Islam's constitution, it's manifesto, …

It is as much it’s manifesto as Leviticus and Deuteronomy are the manifesto for Jews - and for that matter, Christians as well. The difference is that a great deal of Islam has yet to grow out of it as much as the Christians and Jews have over the last millennia.

it's founding document.

Just as the Wholly Buy Bull is for the aforementioned.

If you want to know why so many Muslims hate Jews, you have to read the Arabic equivalent of Mein Kampf.

Sounds like the comment of someone who has never actually read the book in Arabic.
Am I right?

 

[devildavid]

When and by whom? You're always long on claims and short on details.



Everybody knows the Qur'an was 'received' and taught orally by Mohamed, and that it wasn't compiled into written form until well after his death. Nothing new there. Again, if you have a point, you do a piss poor job of making it.

Which means everybody knows that the Koran is not the source of Islam and quoting from it doesn’t give the full picture of what Islam is in its practice as a religion.

 

[Mircea]

Muslims treated Jews like second class citizens historically, and they even had to dress a certain way so they knew who to treat badly from what I've heard.

the second-class status given to the dhimmi under Islamic law meant that restrictions and oppression could be employed, and the Genizah records outbreaks of harsh discriminatory actions and even violence against the Jews.https://exhibitions.lib.cam.ac.uk/discardedhistory/case/second-class-citizens/

You cannot support those claims.

The reason Jews fled to Muslim lands is because x-tians were murdering them left and right as "christ killers" and when x-tians weren't murdering them they were confiscating/destroying their property.

In x-tian lands, Jews weren't allowed to do anything.

Contrast that with the Ottoman Empire where the government administration was almost entirely Jews and Greeks. The Finance Ministry was almost exclusively Jews and many Jews were also in the Foreign Ministry.

Same in the Arab Empire. The Jews welcomed the Muslims in Spain because Muslins put an end to the x-tian murder sprees. The Muslim court there had Jewish astrologers, astronomers, physicians, mathematicians and others. Sahl or Zael otherwise known as ibn-Ezra was a Jew who wrote numerous books that survive even today.

Jews could do anything in the Muslim world except hold ambassadorships and judgeships, but then Greeks and others couldn't hold those positions unless they converted to Islam.

And speaking of conversions, x-tians forced people to convert under penalty of death whereas conversion to Islam was voluntary.

Half the Albanian population converted, but the other have didn't. Bosnians voluntarily converted, too, but that's hardly shocking.

If you've been to Bosnia and I'm sure you haven't and assuming you can cast aside your anachronisms it's a remote region and the catechism wasn't well-taught or enforced so they had no problem converting to Orthodoxy and then back to catholicism and when the Bogomils came through the converted and when the Waldensians came through they converted and when any group came through selling some snake oil they converted so it's hardly shocking they voluntarily converted en masse when the Muslims came through. If Hindus came through the area they would have converted to that, too. Nobody came through after that or they would have converted.

The other thing the Jews didn't do was the Ottoman military. Those generals and admirals were all Russians, Bulgarians, Albanians, some Romanians and Greeks, a handful of Germans and a few Italians.

Assuming they actually were 2nd class citizens that was way better than being a 10th class citizen in the x-tian world.

 

[stevecanuck]

If you had even a marginal knowledge of Islam you would know that that is against the basic principles of Islam and there are no exceptions to that. Any single Jew is responsible only for their own deeds.

I covered that point in great detail.

 

[stevecanuck]

Which means everybody knows that the Koran is not the source of Islam and quoting from it doesn’t give the full picture of what Islam is in its practice as a religion.

I see that once again you refuse to answer the question. What is the source of Islam?

 

[devildavid]

I see that once again you refuse to answer the question. What is the source of Islam?

The source is Muhammad the Prophet.

 

[stevecanuck]

The source is Muhammad the Prophet.

Don't stop there. How did Mohamed create Islam?