Jewish-nation bill frays Israel's delicate social fabric

[TheDemSocialist]

(Reuters) - Israel is poised to pass one of the most divisive laws in its 66-year history, a bill that would declare it the homeland of the Jewish people only -- and further alienate its Arab minority.
Political infighting over the measure is already threatening to tear apart Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's governing coalition.
The legislation, which is seen as compromising equality by differentiating between Jewish and non-Jewish citizens in enshrining some symbolic rights to the Jewish people, could also have long-term practical ramifications for Israeli democracy and jurisprudence.
Netanyahu, along with other right-wing politicians pushing the law, say it is essential to protecting Israel's identity against those questioning its right to exist.

Read more @: Jewish-nation bill frays Israel's delicate social fabric

sraeli government appears to be doing little to calm tensions simmering over in its troubled neighbourhood. Ministers have approved a bill declaring the country a nation-state of the Jewish people.

Video @:
[h=1]Israel's 'jewish law' sparks fears of more religious turmoil[/h]
:shock: Are you ****ing kidding me?

 

[ido_]

:shock: Are you ****ing kidding me? [/FONT][/COLOR]

Pretty hard to debate with that, I guess my reply would be "no, they are serious"? maybe you can explain what is your problem with this bill
I always hear you anti-Israelis that Palestinians shouldn't recognize Israel as a Jewish nation state because its up to Israel to define herself.

 

[spud_meister]

Pretty hard to debate with that, I guess my reply would be "no, they are serious"? maybe you can explain what is your problem with this bill
I always hear you anti-Israelis that Palestinians shouldn't recognize Israel as a Jewish nation state because its up to Israel to define herself.

Nations shouldn't be defined by race or religion.

 

[ido_]

Nations shouldn't be defined by race or religion.

The concept of "nation" is related to "ethnic community" or ethnie. An ethnic community has a myth of origins[dubious – discuss] and descent, a common history, elements of distinctive culture, a common territorial association, and sense of group solidarity

Nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In which way does the Jewish nation don't stand in this definition?
The UN recognized the Jewish nation and voted on founding a Jewish nation state.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Read more @: Jewish-nation bill frays Israel's delicate social fabric


Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
[h=1]Israel's 'jewish law' sparks fears of more religious turmoil[/h]
:shock: Are you ****ing kidding me?

hahah well, looks like this is netanyahu's way of giving every pro-palestinian sympathizer the finger.

 

[spud_meister]

Nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In which way does the Jewish nation don't stand in this definition?
The UN recognized the Jewish nation and voted on founding a Jewish nation state.

:shrug: I disagree with the notion of a Jewish nation. I understand the necessity of it, but I view it in the same way I'd view someone defining Australia as an Anglo-celtic nation. Whether enforced in anyway or not, it bolsters racial distinction and enforces the idea of someone not of the defined race as a second class citizen.

 

[ido_]

:shrug: I disagree with the notion of a Jewish nation

:shrug: you can disagree with it as much as you like, there are 6 million Jews here and many more around the world who believe in it.
Its like the lunatics on the far right who say "There is no such thing as Palestinian people", there are 4 million who say there is, try and convince them.

And you didn't answer my question, on which way does the Jewish nation doesn't stand in the definition brought in wikipedia?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Pretty hard to debate with that, I guess my reply would be "no, they are serious"? maybe you can explain what is your problem with this bill
I always hear you anti-Israelis that Palestinians shouldn't recognize Israel as a Jewish nation state because its up to Israel to define herself.

Makes Israel more and more unequal, opens up the door to more discrimination, define Israel as a nation state only for the Jewish people which pretty much throws minority rights out the door, reserves communal rights for Jews only.

 

[Cardinal]

hahah well, looks like this is netanyahu's way of giving every pro-palestinian sympathizer the finger.

It's also, as several in the Israeli government have said, a great way to legitimize criticism against Israel. The bill is meeting fierce opposition, as well it should.

In an emotional critique of the proposed new legislation, which would become part of Israel’s basic laws , Rivlin said those who had drawn up Israel’s declaration of independence “in their great wisdom, insist that the Arab public in Israel not feel like the Jews felt in the diaspora”.

Speaking at a conference in the southern city of Eilat, Rivlin, a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party, asked: “What is the point of this bill?”

“Does this bill not in fact play into the hands of those who seek to slander us? Into the very hands of those who wish to show that even among us, there are those who see contradiction between our being a free people in our land, and the freedoms of the non-Jewish communities in our midst?

Israeli president opposes proposed law to give

Make no mistake, this is an extremely hardliner proposal and there's no way in hell it'll pass. I equate this to if Boehner created a bill to make the US a Christian Nation. Certainly shocking enough on the face of it, but ultimately all bluster.

 

[ido_]

Makes Israel more and more unequal, opens up the door to more discrimination, define Israel as a nation state only for the Jewish people which pretty much throws minority rights out the door, reserves communal rights for Jews only.

This law has many flaws, but defining Israel as the nation state of the Jews is not one of them.
Israel IS the nation state of the Jews, and Israel IS a democratic state which treats all of its citizens as equals, the two don't contradict each other. I can't see how this makes Israel more unequal, Israel is and will be just as equal as any other western country.

 

[ido_]

It's also, as several in the Israeli government have said, a great way to legitimize criticism against Israel. The bill is meeting fierce opposition, as well it should.


Israeli president opposes proposed law to give

Make no mistake, this is an extremely hardliner proposal and there's no way in hell it'll pass. I equate this to if Boehner created a bill to make the US a Christian Nation. Certainly shocking enough on the face of it, but ultimately all bluster.

Rivlin believes in annexing the west bank and gaza strip and offering full citizenship to all Palestinians who live there. You see this as a "hardliner" I see this as something which completely opposes zionism and the idea of having a nation state for the Jewish nation.

 

[Cardinal]

Rivlin believes in annexing the west bank and gaza strip and offering full citizenship to all Palestinians who live there. You see this as a "hardliner" I see this as something which completely opposes zionism and the idea of having a nation state for the Jewish nation.

??

Is this thread not about a proposal making Israel a homeland for Jews only, and specifically for removing national rights for non-Jews?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

This law has many flaws, but defining Israel as the nation state of the Jews is not one of them.

Israel IS the nation state of the Jews, and Israel IS a democratic state which treats all of its citizens as equals, the two don't contradict each other. I can't see how this makes Israel more unequal, Israel is and will be just as equal as any other western country.

In their constitution they are defined as a Jewish state...

 

[ido_]

In their constitution they are defined as a Jewish state...

Israel dosent have a constitution. It has "basic laws". There is no basic law which defines israel as a jewish state. This law should correct that

 

[ido_]

??

Is this thread not about a proposal making Israel a homeland for Jews only, and specifically for removing national rights for non-Jews?

This law dosent remove any rights of any minorities in Israel. Its a declaration that Israel is the nation state of the Jews

 

[blarg]

This law has many flaws, but defining Israel as the nation state of the Jews is not one of them.
Israel IS the nation state of the Jews, and Israel IS a democratic state which treats all of its citizens as equals, the two don't contradict each other. I can't see how this makes Israel more unequal, Israel is and will be just as equal as any other western country.

its the nation state of all the citizens that live their not all of them are Jews giving a free pass for 1 ethnic group to come on in while restricting every one else is not equality

 

[ido_]

its the nation state of all the citizens that live their not all of them are Jews giving a free pass for 1 ethnic group to come on in while restricting every one else is not equality

If you are speaking about the law of return, I cant see its relevance to this law or how it affects minorities living in Israel

 

[SlevinKelevra]

If you are speaking about the law of return, I cant see its relevance to this law or how it affects minorities living in Israel

I read it as travel restrictions within the country for current inhabitants; nothing to do with right of return.

 

[blarg]

I read it as travel restrictions within the country for current inhabitants; nothing to do with right of return.

cant it be both? but honestly was thinking of the right of return

 

[blarg]

If you are speaking about the law of return, I cant see its relevance to this law or how it affects minorities living in Israel

nothing is more free and democratic then artificially inflating 1 ethnicity over every one else

 

[ido_]

nothing is more free and democratic then artificially inflating 1 ethnicity over every one else

You are derailing the discussion to the law of return, its a different law which was debated in numerous threads in this forum and irrelevant to the law proposed now which in no way affecting minorities in Israel.

 

[ido_]

I read it as travel restrictions within the country for current inhabitants; nothing to do with right of return.

No, he is referring to Israeli immigration laws.
There is nothing in the "Jewish-nation" bill about travel restrictions.
There are a few controversial sections in some versions of the bill offered by hardliners in the Israeli right, like the status of Arabic language or that Israel is "More Jewish than democratic" but these sections have no chance of passing as 2 Coalition parties said they will vote against it in the Knesset if those sections will be included. But no one have a problem with the definition appearing in the deceleration of independence which is that Israel is a Jewish democratic nation of the Jewish people which will respect minority rights according to the rules of the international community and the UN

 

[blarg]

This law has many flaws, but defining Israel as the nation state of the Jews is not one of them.
Israel IS the nation state of the Jews, and Israel IS a democratic state which treats all of its citizens as equals, the two don't contradict each other. I can't see how this makes Israel more unequal, Israel is and will be just as equal as any other western country.

sorry but this bit doesn't seem entirely true when considering the law of return

Israel IS a democratic state which treats all of its citizens as equals

or this bit

Israel is and will be just as equal as any other western country

 

[Apocalypse]

Nations shouldn't be defined by race or religion.

Jewish is a nationality just like Australian or Dutch is.
There's no such race as "Jew", the race of Jews like Arabs is the Semite race, and the religion of a Jewish person is Judaism. I'm defined as a Jew and I'm an atheist, because I belong to the Jewish nationality. You're defined as an Australian because you belong to the Australian nationality, you would be an Australian even if you weren't born in Australia but born to Australian parents and you'd have a right to citizenship in Australia. Likewise a person born to Jewish parents outside of Israel is Jewish and is entitled to citizenship in Israel.

Hope it clarifies.

 

[Cardinal]

This law dosent remove any rights of any minorities in Israel. Its a declaration that Israel is the nation state of the Jews

It does more than that.

Crucially, while the bill affirms “the personal rights of all [Israel's] citizens according to law,” it reserves communal rights for Jews only. In other words, individual Arabs are equal in the eyes of the law, but their communal rights are not recognized.

Elkin's original version went even further. It would have defined Hebrew as Israel’s only national language, reducing Arabic to secondary status, and it affirmed the importance of settlement throughout the country's borders — without defining what those borders were.

Israel's Jewish nation-state bill: a primer - National Israel News | Haaretz

Or, if you like, "separate but equal." It's one thing to give the finger to the Palestine Authority or any institution that specifically resists Israeli legitimacy, but it's quite another to stick a salad fork in the eyes of Arab citizens, regardless of their politics.

It's completely, unnecessarily incendiary.