Japan puts the brakes on lucrative used-car trade with Moscow empire🐷 🇷🇺

[Litwin]

I wish for their living standards to go below 6 feet deep and out of ****ing control . That's going to even push up the prices of their vehicles even more due to lack of vehicles in Moscow ulus

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I wish for their living standards to go below 6 feet deep and out of ****ing control . That's going to even push up the prices of their vehicles even more due to lack of vehicles in Moscow ulus

Just means more Chinese vehicles being sold in Russia p

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Just means more Chinese vehicles being sold in Russia p

Which means more garbage.
Sorry, Chinese car quality is way better than it used to be but it's still pretty awful and I get the impression it's not going to suddenly get a lot better anytime soon.
That's a bit like pretending China is South Korea, which it's not.

So yeah, let the Russians buy lots of crappy Chinese cars if they like them so much.

 

[Litwin]

Just means more Chinese vehicles being sold in Russia p

EDIT : Just means more Chinese jokes being sold in Moscow empire

 

[Litwin]

Which means more garbage.

+1,

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Which means more garbage.
Sorry, Chinese car quality is way better than it used to be but it's still pretty awful and I get the impression it's not going to suddenly get a lot better anytime soon.
That's a bit like pretending China is South Korea, which it's not.

So yeah, let the Russians buy lots of crappy Chinese cars if they like them so mumuch.

Remember that China makes approximately 25 million vehicles a year. For every manufacturer in the world basically. The Buick Envision which is I believe Buicks most reliable vehicle was designed and engineered in China ( along with being built there)

Are Chinese domestic companies IC vehiclesc the best performing, certainly not. Chinese buyers want prestige, smooth quite rides and great interiors over very fast cars with great handling. Prestige was taken by the Germans so the Chinese focused on mid to low market

Chinese EVs on the other hand are world leading. Up with Tesla for the better brands.

Overall, the best Chinese companies are not as good as Toyota or Honda for long term durability but neither are any other companies in general. Nor do they have a Mustang or Corvette IC car.

They do have Tesla model S comparable, the MG roadster is a great sports car EV model

VW bought the rights to use an older Xpeng platform for Audi EVs. CATL and BYD probably build the best battery packs

 

[Litwin]

Remember that China makes approximately 25 million vehicles a year

EDIT FOR YOU : Remember that China makes approximately 25 million shitty vehicles a year

🇷🇺 🐷Ruble, despite billions of investment by the 🇷🇺 Central Bank & having increased interest rates drastically, continues to lose value.

sounds more and more like 1991 of USSR´s empire :ROFLMAO: , A roll of toilet :poop: 🇷🇺 paper is literally more expensive than the putin´s ruble ! Economic sanctions always are slow burn. That is why the sanctioned always boast that sanctions don't work and as such should be abandoned. Moscow...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

EDIT FOR YOU : Remember that China makes approximately 25 million shitty vehicles a year

🇷🇺 🐷Ruble, despite billions of investment by the 🇷🇺 Central Bank & having increased interest rates drastically, continues to lose value.

sounds more and more like 1991 of USSR´s empire :ROFLMAO: , A roll of toilet :poop: 🇷🇺 paper is literally more expensive than the putin´s ruble ! Economic sanctions always are slow burn. That is why the sanctioned always boast that sanctions don't work and as such should be abandoned. Moscow...

debatepolitics.com

If you call Tesla, BMW, MB, VW, Toyota, Honda, Nissan to be shitty sure

 

[Litwin]

If you call Tesla, BMW, MB, VW, Toyota, Honda, Nissan to be shitty sure

wrong , these vehicles produce our firms in China , Slovakia, Thailand, etc.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Remember that China makes approximately 25 million vehicles a year. For every manufacturer in the world basically. The Buick Envision which is I believe Buicks most reliable vehicle was designed and engineered in China ( along with being built there)

Buick is unique in this because they managed to capture a Chinese market making something Chinese buyers liked and that happened years BEFORE the GM-SAIC partnership.
Like ONE HUNDRED YEARS before...

When GM Export debuted in 1911, Buicks were its first cars, and they quickly arrived in Australia, New Zealand and China. Sun Yat-sen, the first provisional president of the Republic of China, was photographed in a Buick in Shanghai in 1912. The last emperor of China, P'u-i, who abdicated as a child in 1912 but later regained some power, bought his first Buick (but not his last) in 1926. A Buick sales office opened in Shanghai in 1929. In 1930, an advertisement claimed that one of every six cars in China was a Buick and that "Buick owners are mostly the leading men in China." A Shanghai museum displays a 1941 Buick owned by postwar premier Chou En-lai. In Nanjing, a Buick owned by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek is identified as the car in which his wife was driven after World War II.

Buick rolled out a Chinese market version of the Buick Regal in 1999, so named because all Chinese market vehicle designs call for much more room in the rear seat area thanks to Chinese cultural emphasis on the importance of such extra room in any upscale sedan. Indeed, the presence OF such extended rear seating space is perhaps the very thing that defines a car as upscale in Chinese consumer culture.
Make no mistake about it, production and design of Buicks is tied to Buick quality goals conceived HERE, not there.

For proof, just check out the acres of brand new Chinese cars which are rotting in situ right now.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

If you call Tesla, BMW, MB, VW, Toyota, Honda, Nissan to be shitty sure

I'm sorry but this reminds me of my daughter who, up until a few years ago, was under the impression that microprocessors were originally conceived of and invented by JAPAN.
She was shocked beyond belief when I explained that WE invented this stuff, she even refused to believe it initially, quite funny.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Chinese companies are building all the brands I listed. Supplying a lot of the parts. That builds up the domestic supplier base, the design and engineering base, and manufacturing knowledge.


Recall Tesla brought Chinese workers to help reorganize there Freemont plant to make it better.

Being the first does not mean always being the best. TSMC is the best at building microprocessors right now for example. 2 to 3 generations ahead of Intel


Mercedes Benz has been considering buying a stake in Nio, a startup Chinese EV company ( replaceable battery packs)


VW took a stake in Chinese EV Xpeng and licensed one of its platforms for EVs

Clearly Chinese engineering and design have made dramatic improvements in the last 4 years, enough so that Europe is in a panic over Chinese EVs and what they will do to European automaker's. ( note the Germans make the most profit in China)

She was shocked beyond belief when I explained that WE invented this stuff, she even refused to believe it initially, quite funny.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Buick is unique in this because they managed to capture a Chinese market making something Chinese buyers liked and that happened years BEFORE the GM-SAIC partnership.
Like ONE HUNDRED YEARS before...


Buick rolled out a Chinese market version of the Buick Regal in 1999, so named because all Chinese market vehicle designs call for much more room in the rear seat area thanks to Chinese cultural emphasis on the importance of such extra room in any upscale sedan. Indeed, the presence OF such extended rear seating space is perhaps the very thing that defines a car as upscale in Chinese consumer culture.
Make no mistake about it, production and design of Buicks is tied to Buick quality goals conceived HERE, not there.

For proof, just check out the acres of brand new Chinese cars which are rotting in situ right now.

Buick exists because of China, heck you can still buy Buick sedans in China.

As for extra room.

Most luxury makers make extended wheelbase versions of vehicles for the Chinese market. Most are engineered in China.

As for the large number of EVs that have not been sold, most were to be sold to ride sharing companies which of course Covid ruined that market.

They are now the previous generation of cars and not attractive at all to vehicle buyers in China, who demand the most up to date tech in the car. So most models require a heavy update in 3 years


Now having a few thousand or even a few tens of thousands of EVs that are old tech not getting sold is not really much of an issue when looking at 25 million vehicles being sold each year, we are talking a fraction of a % which is rather insignificant overall

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

wrong , these vehicles produce our firms in China , Slovakia, Thailand, etc.

Your firms Sweden has no domestic manufacturer, nor the Baltic countries.

Volvo is owned by Geely, the Saab brand is owned by a different Chinese company

VW probably manufactured more cars in China than any other country including Germany at 3.1 million produced

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Buick exists because of China, heck you can still buy Buick sedans in China.

As for extra room.

Most luxury makers make extended wheelbase versions of vehicles for the Chinese market. Most are engineered in China.

As for the large number of EVs that have not been sold, most were to be sold to ride sharing companies which of course Covid ruined that market.

They are now the previous generation of cars and not attractive at all to vehicle buyers in China, who demand the most up to date tech in the car. So most models require a heavy update in 3 years


Now having a few thousand or even a few tens of thousands of EVs that are old tech not getting sold is not really much of an issue when looking at 25 million vehicles being sold each year, we are talking a fraction of a % which is rather insignificant overall

You're offering your opinion as if it replaces facts.
Buick's existence because of China doesn't change the fact that Buicks were not designed BY Chinese engineers IN China.
Today's GM-SAIC partnership uses input by Chinese engineers but you're trying to pretend that GM went to China at the turn of the century and begged China to help them design a car.

How old are you? I'm serious, I really would like to know, because it sounds like you were born around the turn of the most recent century.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

You're offering your opinion as if it replaces facts.
Buick's existence because of China doesn't change the fact that Buicks were not designed BY Chinese engineers IN China.
Today's GM-SAIC partnership uses input by Chinese engineers but you're trying to pretend that GM went to China at the turn of the century and begged China to help them design a car.

How old are you? I'm serious, I really would like to know, because it sounds like you were born around the turn of the most recent century.

Buick exists today because of Buick sales in China in 2008, made it a brand worth saving vs Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Without the Chinese market Buick would have been cut

I was wrong about the Envision being engineered in China, it is just the only place it is built.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Buick exists today because of Buick sales in China in 2008, made it a brand worth saving vs Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Without the Chinese market Buick would have been cut
I was wrong about the Envision being engineered in China, it is just the only place it is built.

Sorry but again, this is YOUR OPINION.
Buick sales in China do not keep a US branch of Buick afloat, ergo

Buick exists today NOT because of Buick sales in China

Buick in China exists because of age old Chinese admiration for Buick cars, period.
Buick exists in the USA because of American admiration for Buick cars.

GM, Ford, Stellantis, VW, Porsche, Audi, MBZ and all the others all have brands that aren't global.
You can't buy a 21st Century Ford Falcon in the USA but Australia loves theirs.
You can't buy a Plymouth in the States but last I checked they are still selling in parts of South America.

Buick is a global brand precisely BECAUSE they enjoy sales IN the USA as WELL AS over in China.
Now, all that having been said, should China FINALLY MAKE a I-4, I-6 or V6 that compares favorably to our own or to the ones made by our Euro partners like Opel, for instance,
then we may very well SEE more Chinese engineering in our cars, and that MAY INDEED open the door FOR entry of independent Chinese brands.

But it's not a happening thing yet and for good reason: We're doing a pretty decent job already.
The other reason is, China is STILL NOT known for designing and manufacturing high quality gasoline engines.
And given the trends, I don't see China interested in investing in it all that much because the trend is moving AWAY FROM gasoline engines.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Buick in 2008 sold around 100 000 vehicles in the US. In China they sold 447 000. Its main market.

In 2008 Pontiac sold around 250 000 vehicles primarily in the US.

Were it not for Chinese sales Buick as a brand would likely have been discontinued like Pontiac as a means to save money. Having 4 brands rather than 7 which it had in the US ( Pontiac, Hummer, Saab).

Why GM Killed The Pontiac Brand? The Death of the American Muscle Car!

Although the Pontiac brand is no longer in existence, it became hugely popular and influential in the muscle car world.

www.carlogos.org

GM said Buick made a billion dollars a year, and Pontiac lost the same amount. But the other key factor was how big Buick was in China--it was huge! Still taking on Volkswagen, Toyota, and other brands in China, Buick sells more products there than it does at home. So killing Buick off was never an option for GM, so it had to be Pontiac.

As for the Ford Falcon, it is not being made. Opel no longer is owned by GM, being sold to Peugeot

VW owns Porche, Audi, Bentley, Skoda, SEAT.

China the Chinese market has not been about high horsepower engines, but more about image and luxury. Until recently Chinese brands did not have prestige in the domestic market so it focused on value. So yes they will not develop the world's best 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engine as it is likely going to be a waste. They are focusing on EVs and doing a great job so far

Now with EVs, it has prestige brands namely and domestic Chinese brands are taking market share in China and doing it quickly. Jeep China declared bankruptcy, Mitsubishi is pulling out, Nissan has seen sales drop by half. It is also the largest exporter of vehicles in the world now

60% of GM cars sold in Mexico were built in China and Chinese but cars hold approximately 20% of the Mexican market

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

China the Chinese market has not been about high horsepower engines,

Nobody mentioned horsepower.
Look, it's real simple, the automotive press is a global idea, it's not limited to just US brands.
Automotive trade mags and reviews are global. People all over the world read up on automotive ideas and applications and cars are a global interest group.
The day China actually makes a HIGH quality vehicle, there's no way the news can be quashed, for the very reason you keep going back to, the sheer size of the Chinese market.

And that means HIGH QUALITY ENGINES, and in the case of EV's, HIGH QUALITY ELECTRICAL drive systems.
Sorry, but that is not what China is known for, and they never HAVE been known for it either.
China is known for CHEAP engines, and CHEAP electrical and electronic systems.

I'll put it another way...
Back when DVD first began to dominate as a video distribution format, high speed internet was still not quite ubiquitous, and neither was high capacity storage media.
YouTube did not exist yet either and even once it came into being it was limited to SUB-VHS quality 240p for many years.

And burning a DVD meant you were taking a chance with either so called +r or -r media and if your client on the other end had the wrong kind of DVD player they might not be able to play
the video they paid you to do for them.
So MY SOLUTION was simple...the client is paying me anywhere from $650 to seven or eight thousand dollars or even more for a video I shot, edited and produced and I want to GUARANTEE they can play
what I send them so I would just BUY a CHEAP CHINESE MADE DVD player and include it in the shipment.
I would take the finished DVD I had produced and make sure it played in the player and then tuck it all in together in the packaging and send it out.
For thirty-nine to fifty nine bucks it was cheap insurance that my client would be able to play his media.

Mind you: CHEAP CHINESE DVD players. CHEAP.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Nobody mentioned horsepower.
Look, it's real simple, the automotive press is a global idea, it's not limited to just US brands.
Automotive trade mags and reviews are global. People all over the world read up on automotive ideas and applications and cars are a global interest group.
The day China actually makes a HIGH quality vehicle, there's no way the news can be quashed, for the very reason you keep going back to, the sheer size of the Chinese market.

And that means HIGH QUALITY ENGINES, and in the case of EV's, HIGH QUALITY ELECTRICAL drive systems.
Sorry, but that is not what China is known for, and they never HAVE been known for it either.
China is known for CHEAP engines, and CHEAP electrical and electronic systems.

I'll put it another way...
Back when DVD first began to dominate as a video distribution format, high speed internet was still not quite ubiquitous, and neither was high capacity storage media.
YouTube did not exist yet either and even once it came into being it was limited to SUB-VHS quality 240p for many years.

And burning a DVD meant you were taking a chance with either so called +r or -r media and if your client on the other end had the wrong kind of DVD player they might not be able to play
the video they paid you to do for them.
So MY SOLUTION was simple...the client is paying me anywhere from $650 to seven or eight thousand dollars or even more for a video I shot, edited and produced and I want to GUARANTEE they can play
what I send them so I would just BUY a CHEAP CHINESE MADE DVD player and include it in the shipment.
I would take the finished DVD I had produced and make sure it played in the player and then tuck it all in together in the packaging and send it out.
For thirty-nine to fifty nine bucks it was cheap insurance that my client would be able to play his media.

Mind you: CHEAP CHINESE DVD players. CHEAP.

The BYD Seal seems to be getting good reviews for a mid market vehicle

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The BYD Seal seems to be getting good reviews for a mid market vehicle

We shall see but BYD EV's are also rotting by the tens of thousands too.
And you know what truly rankles about that? They've wasted thousands of tons of lithium for batteries which will rot forever out there.

That's not exactly the kind of thing I want to be known for supporting when I tool down the I-605 in my BYD vehicle.
Cheer for them all you like, it's a free country!
Me? I don't dig cheap crap made in China and never have.

I'm not saying it can never change, hell.....Hyundai and Kia used to be sad jokes on wheels, now look at them both.
Both their brands are flat out "amazeballs" in terms of performance and quality so it's possible China could transform to a quality marque.
I just don't see how it fits their worldview of Western markets and, believe you me, China DOES HAVE a worldview of Western markets.
They view the West as a bunch of shaved apes.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

We shall see but BYD EV's are also rotting by the tens of thousands too.
And you know what truly rankles about that? They've wasted thousands of tons of lithium for batteries which will rot forever out there.

That's not exactly the kind of thing I want to be known for supporting when I tool down the I-605 in my BYD vehicle.
Cheer for them all you like, it's a free country!
Me? I don't dig cheap crap made in China and never have.

Byd is producing Lfp batteries now and batteries will be recycled.

Again given how fast the EV market changed and that the ride sharing companies went under during covid, that tens of thousands are sitting not being used is not a big issue they will be recycled, and that is out of 24 million in sales. Generally less than 1 %, and they are older designs replaced with far better vehicles

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Byd is producing Lfp batteries now and batteries will be recycled.

Again given how fast the EV market changed and that the ride sharing companies went under during covid, that tens of thousands are sitting not being used is not a big issue they will be recycled, and that is out of 24 million in sales. Generally less than 1 %, and they are older designs replaced with far better vehicles

How many times has China pulled the wool over people's eyes, the recent Olympics where the light show and fireworks were all faked for TV, poisonous dog food and dog treats that killed pets the world over, lead paint in toys, drywall made of toxic waste, hair bands made out of used condoms, radial tires that self-destruct, toothpaste with diethylene glycol in it, Chinese cosmetics with poisonous ingredients, countless exploding rechargeable batteries, dude...be a cheerleader for China all you want, just don't expect those of us with some education and world experience to fall for it.

 

[ThirdTerm]

This Japanese MP got punished for visiting Russia and expressing pro-Russia views on Russian TV. Japan is a reluctant participant in the sanctions regime.