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Jackson Verdict Coming Right Up.

He wasn't found innocent he was found not guilty. I still believe he is guilty but i don't think that they had enough physical evidence to get a conviction. Is it just me or is it encedibly hard to get a conviction in California?
 
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Stinger said:
Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious, I watched a great deal of it, the recreations and read enough of what was going on. Again the standard has moved from reasonable doubt to all doubt. He has a history of and a propensity to engage in sexual activity with young boys. So much so that he paid millions to keep one kid quiet and even after that kept up his practices.
Wow. You saw the recreations that left out great ammounts of testimony and only showed what was interesting. He had a history which couldn't come in because it would bias the jury. That is a legit reason because it was never proven in the courts whether he did and to bring it in would serve solely to do that. Past convinctions can come in, but not acusations.
But she wasn't on trial and she wasn't the victim was she.
No, but she was one of the two main witnesses for the prosecution's case. She did lousy on the stand and was caught lying several times. The boy did pretty bad as well, but nothing in comparison to her.
Their job should be to see that justice is done, just as in the OJ case they certainly are free to twist and turn and spin and confused to get thier client off even if their client is guilty. I simply have no respect for lawyers who do use such tactics rather than the facts.
You don't know about the legal system. Their job is not to prove he is innocent. In the American Justice System, the prosecutor has the burden of proof, not the other way aound as you are saying. You may have no respect for any defense attorney because rarely are they able to present one fact and say-let my client go. No, they build up a case of reasonable doubt usually until the jury can only find for them.
But they choose to so therefore thier explanations are free game for discussion.
Whatever, they don't have to, some did, others didn't. Have fun analyzing them when you should be looking at the case and not the jurors.
It is so apparent that it is ridiculous. I think when ORiely pegged the juror on the homosexual magazines it showed how stretched these jurors were.
Ah, now it makes sense.
 
guns_God_glory said:
He wasn't found innocent he was found not guilty. I still believe he is guilty but i don't think that they had enough physical evidence to get a conviction. Is it just me or is it encedibly hard to get a conviction in California?

an addendum to this quote: if you are a celebrity.
 
guns_God_glory said:
He wasn't found innocent he was found not guilty. I still believe he is guilty but i don't think that they had enough physical evidence to get a conviction. Is it just me or is it encedibly hard to get a conviction in California?

It's definatly not just you. I think our justice system needs to be reformed
 
BigMoose67 said:
It's definatly not just you. I think our justice system needs to be reformed
How and why may I ask?

Just because you didn't get the verdict you wanted? Tough luck. Try a better case without so many holes and you will get a conviction.
 
ShamMol said:
How and why may I ask?

Just because you didn't get the verdict you wanted? Tough luck. Try a better case without so many holes and you will get a conviction.

Why you ask.
How many people have been wrongly accused?(I'm not talking about before DNA)
OJ Simpson
Robert Blake
Emmett Till
How many people get off on technicalities?
It's all politics not fairness.(Money is power, not fairness)
Reasons why vary and go either way, but there are lots of reasons why.
I don't expect it to change soon and most of the time it does work, but it isn't the way it was setup to be. If we keep going like this there will be no justice. Justice is what I want, not a verdict. People should be allowed to use their common sense.(if that exists)
 
BigMoose67 said:
Why you ask.
How many people have been wrongly accused?(I'm not talking about before DNA)
OJ Simpson
Robert Blake
Emmett Till
How many people get off on technicalities?
It's all politics not fairness.(Money is power, not fairness)
Reasons why vary and go either way, but there are lots of reasons why.
I don't expect it to change soon and most of the time it does work, but it isn't the way it was setup to be. If we keep going like this there will be no justice. Justice is what I want, not a verdict. People should be allowed to use their common sense.(if that exists)
The way it is set up to be is that everyone is entitled to representation. Now, in some cases where the client can't afford an attorney, one is appointed, but in the case of those who can afford legal representation, they can go out and shop for an attorney. It may not be great, but it is what it is and won't change because it is the only fair way.

Justice was served, it just wasn't the justice you wanted. They can use common sense, but if there is enough reasonable doubt, they have to aquit.
 
The guy sleeps with boys and admits it. As soon as he is accused of molestation. There should be no question. If your that old you should sleep with little kids there is something wrong(put him in an insane asylum).(I know it isn't all Jackson's fault, the mothers should be so stupid either)
 
ShamMol said:
Justice was served, it just wasn't the justice you wanted. They can use common sense, but if there is enough reasonable doubt, they have to aquit.
So your saying that it's okay to molest little kids as long as you can put an inkling of doubt into someones head. If common sense says he is guilty convict him is all I'm saying.
 
BigMoose67 said:
So your saying that it's okay to molest little kids as long as you can put an inkling of doubt into someones head. If common sense says he is guilty convict him is all I'm saying.
Common sense has no place in the court room. They are only allowed to consider what evidence was in front of them. They aren't allowed to infer anything. They look at what is in front of them, they see the doubt, they see what both sides are saying and then they make their decision. They decided that there was way too much doubt on all the pieces of evidence that they had been shown. That is how the system works so it isn't just a rubber stamp system where the benefit of the doubt is given to prosecutors.

They didn't have a good case, there were far too many holes and the defense exploited that brilliantly.

The guy sleeps with boys and admits it. As soon as he is accused of molestation. There should be no question. If your that old you should sleep with little kids there is something wrong(put him in an insane asylum).(I know it isn't all Jackson's fault, the mothers should be so stupid either)
I agree he has something wrong, but honestly, you can sleep in the same bed and not touch someone. Married couples do it all the time. Just because you think he is nuts for doing something you find sick, that doesn't make him automatically guilty. There is a system in place to find out if he is and it is not your place to say he is.
 
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BigMoose67 said:
It's definatly not just you. I think our justice system needs to be reformed

You know, you're right. Perhaps next time we could just skip the whole trial thing and just go straight to the execution.
 
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Fu_chick said:
You know, you're right. Perhaps next time we could just skip the whole trail thing and just go straight to the execution.
I never said anything about taking out the trail, instead make it actually mean something.
 
How did it not mean something? It's not like these people deliberated for an hour and came back with "Not Guilty." Just because the outcome is not what you would have wanted does not mean that the system is flawed.
 
Fu_chick said:
How did it not mean something? It's not like these people deliberated for an hour and came back with "Not Guilty." Just because the outcome is not what you would have wanted does not mean that the system is flawed.
One case okay, definately not flawed.(yet)
50 cases okay, **** happens.
100 cases neh, liveable.
1000's of wrong verdicts and stupid technicallities. Time to figure something out. It's not just about this one case.
In my opinion Jackson's guilty just for sleeping with little boys. As long as he doesn't do that ****ed up ****( like he says he won't) I'm cool, but can you really trust someone like that. Guilty or Not Guilty he's still guilty.
 
Wrong verdicts in whose opinion? I would rather see someone who is guilty go free than put someone in prison who is innocent. Personally, I think he's guilty too, but just because I don't like the verdict doesn't mean the system needs to be overhauled.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do to change the justice system?
 
BigMoose67 said:
One case okay, definately not flawed.(yet)
50 cases okay, **** happens.
100 cases neh, liveable.
1000's of wrong verdicts and stupid technicallities. Time to figure something out. It's not just about this one case.
In my opinion Jackson's guilty just for sleeping with little boys. As long as he doesn't do that ****ed up ****( like he says he won't) I'm cool, but can you really trust someone like that. Guilty or Not Guilty he's still guilty.

Again, this is your opinion, and you have absolutely no reason to be saying whether he is guilty or not. It is not your place. You weren't in the courtroom, you didn't have the evidence and doubt presented to you. But, oh no, since you saw the incomplete reenactments, you think you saw everything, wrong. I will repost what I wrote and maybe this time you will respond to it.

"Common sense has no place in the court room. They are only allowed to consider what evidence was in front of them. They aren't allowed to infer anything. They look at what is in front of them, they see the doubt, they see what both sides are saying and then they make their decision. They decided that there was way too much doubt on all the pieces of evidence that they had been shown. That is how the system works so it isn't just a rubber stamp system where the benefit of the doubt is given to prosecutors.

They didn't have a good case, there were far too many holes and the defense exploited that brilliantly.

I agree he has something wrong, but honestly, you can sleep in the same bed and not touch someone. Married couples do it all the time. Just because you think he is nuts for doing something you find sick, that doesn't make him automatically guilty. There is a system in place to find out if he is and it is not your place to say he is."
 
ShamMol said:
"Common sense has no place in the court room. They are only allowed to consider what evidence was in front of them. They aren't allowed to infer anything. They look at what is in front of them, they see the doubt, they see what both sides are saying and then they make their decision. They decided that there was way too much doubt on all the pieces of evidence that they had been shown. That is how the system works so it isn't just a rubber stamp system where the benefit of the doubt is given to prosecutors.


I agree he has something wrong, but honestly, you can sleep in the same bed and not touch someone. Married couples do it all the time. Just because you think he is nuts for doing something you find sick, that doesn't make him automatically guilty. There is a system in place to find out if he is and it is not your place to say he is."

No common sense? :shock:
If Jackson had basically come out and said he did it without really saying it, but everyone knows he did it are still supposed to let common sense go and go with, "Well, he didn't exactly say he did it."

Married couples do it, yes. Friends of the same basic age range, yes. Micheal Jackson, who has already been accused of molestation before, and little kids, No. NO NO NO.

Money manipulates the system, which means it needs to be fixed, not because of the verdict of this case. I'm tired of rich people doing whatever they want and getting away with it.
 
BigMoose67 said:
No common sense? :shock:
If Jackson had basically come out and said he did it without really saying it, but everyone knows he did it are still supposed to let common sense go and go with, "Well, he didn't exactly say he did it."

Married couples do it, yes. Friends of the same basic age range, yes. Micheal Jackson, who has already been accused of molestation before, and little kids, No. NO NO NO.

Money manipulates the system, which means it needs to be fixed, not because of the verdict of this case. I'm tired of rich people doing whatever they want and getting away with it.
I really suggest you learn about the legal system and the evidenciary rules for court. It will save you a lot of time. Many of the sh*t you talk about can't be allowed into the case, no matter who you are because it is predujicial, it isn't substantiated, it was illegally obtained, etc, etc. They can't use common sense, I said it before and I will say it again. What they are allowed to do is look at the evidence before them and weigh that in conjunction with the doubt that was placed on it and then make a rational decision as to whether there is enough evidence to convict someone. In this case, there was just too much doubt.

You bring up the fact that the wealthy can buy their case. In this case, he wouldn't have been able to if the prosecution hadn't rushed their case and tried a better one. He would have been screwed. Look at Scott Peterson, he had some of the best legal advice around and is still convicted. It all depends on the case. The best attorneys make a difference, but that is no reason to change the system. If everyone had crappy legal counsel, it would just be a rubber stamp system. Oh, you'll bring up, "but we can insure that they are the best" blah blah blah, but in all honesty, the Supreme Court has held that sleeping counsel is adequate counsel. If anything needs to be changed, it is situations where the poor get jipped because of counsel, not the rich.
 
I'm not going to whine about Jackson being set free, he was given his day in court and was acquitted of all charges. But does anybody else find it suspicious that at least one of the jurors went to a "celebration of thanks" party hosted by the Jackson party?
 
ANAV said:
I'm not going to whine about Jackson being set free, he was given his day in court and was acquitted of all charges. But does anybody else find it suspicious that at least one of the jurors went to a "celebration of thanks" party hosted by the Jackson party?

Yes, that is at the very least inappropriate.
 
However, no more inappropriate than the way that some of the Scott Peterson jurors acted in front of the cameras. What is it with California?
 
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