Ive had it. We need to go big or go home in Ukraine against Russia

[EnigmaO01]

Sadly, the approach of the typical TV war American.

Biden is perfect. Perfect on this.

We have no business in escalating a regional war not in our sphere.

It is irresponsible to make this usa vs Russia.

Yes, its horrible but compared to a nuclear exchage between the 2 powers? We would 10 times the people Ukraine will with just one strike.
The red line has been drawn . It is Nato soil. We can't cross it, Russian can't cross you.

Wise the **** up.

Why don't YOU wise the **** up and actually read a few of the posts in this thread? As I explained NUMEROUS times in this thread my op was made in the frustration of the moment and I actually support Biden's approach.

Not only could you have read my post you could have had the class to disagree without being an ***hole about it.

 

[noonereal]

Why don't you YOU wise the **** up and actually read a few of the posts in this thread? As I explained NUMEROUS times in this thread my op was made in the frustration of the moment and I actually support Biden's approach.

Not only could you have read my post you could have had the class to disagree without being an ***hole about it.

Really, one should never respond to the opening post?

They should wait until how many posts appear and read them all?

Ok, but quick question. If everyone has to wait for other posts before they post..
How does anything ever get posted?

 

[EnigmaO01]

Really, one should never respond to the opening post?

They should wait until how many posts appear and read them all?

Ok, but quick question. If everyone has to wait for other posts before they post..
How does anything ever get posted?

I read all the posts in a thread. I don't see what the big deal is. Just catching the tail end of a thread and opening you big mouth without being fully informed can get you in hot water. Now run along...

 

[noonereal]

I read all the posts in a thread. I don't see what the big deal is. Just catching the tail end of a thread and opening you big mouth without being fully informed can get you in hot water. Now run along...

Water? What water?

And you never explained why we are to never reply to the opening post.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Water? What water?

And you never explained why we are to never reply to the opening post.

I'm not interesting in a pissing match with you. Got troll someone else.

Btw I'm not a "Typical American." Half of my family is European. My wife is trilingual and I am bilingual.

 

[noonereal]

I'm not interesting in a pissing match with you. Got troll someone else.

Passing match? I asked you two reasonable questions which the answers to are obvious so you want to exit the back and forth.

Its all here. Its all obvious.

 

[snakestretcher]

LOL If anything proves the need for NATO to expand in response to Putin's aggression it is Ukraine. We should have given it NATO status and this war would not have happened.

Ukraine has been on the fence over NATO membership for a long time.

 

[oneworld2]

We should never have been in Vietnam, or Iraq, but bringing up that past does nothing to refute the fact that Russia is brutally invading a country in the here and now against their will.

Or are you saying it does?

Even today many people here who believe themselves to be objective cannot refer to them as crimes. They are fed the BS about them being " mistakes" or " blunders" etc and people here say the Russians are the brainwashed

 

[oneworld2]

Except the arsonist is Putin. He has done nothing but threaten and invade for 20 years. You seem to have a very limited grasp of history. The more he threatens and invades the more countries that want security. That is all NATO is.... security from Putin.

The Russians aren't the ones with military bases in everyone elses country, in case you hadn't noticed.

You are the arsonists and have been since forever.

 

[iguanaman]

The Russians aren't the ones with military bases in everyone elses country, in case you hadn't noticed.

You are the arsonists and have been since forever.

The Russians are the ones attacking sovereign states and that is what NATO was created to prevent. You know this but still keep the Kremlin line. Our military bases in friendly nations in Europe are not there to oppress they are there to protect.

 

[iguanaman]

Ukraine has been on the fence over NATO membership for a long time.

Because they did not want to upset Russia and did not believe they would invade them. I still cannot believe they did. It means the end of Russia as a part of the world community and a return to the "iron curtain". Putin really stepped in it now.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Ukraine has been on the fence over NATO membership for a long time.

It was only after Maidan and getting rid of the pro-Russia Yanukovych government that Ukraine re-oriented towards the West.

Being on the fence definitely stopped with Russia's initial invasion in 2014.

 

[oneworld2]

The Russians are the ones attacking sovereign states and that is what NATO was created to prevent. You know this but still keep the Kremlin line. Our military bases in friendly nations in Europe are not there to oppress they are there to protect.

NATO states have attacked, either dubiously or outright illegally, more states than Putin has. NATO was created to deal with the USSR, when that went belly up NATO, like the Warsaw Pact, should have been disbanded and a new Russia inclusive European security arrangement set up

Military bases are used to project power in the great game of geopolitics and that's their function. That's why the NATO states have been able to engage in crimes all over the globe, ongoing.

You probably don't know this because out propaganda system blows the socks off the Russian one

 

[Rogue Valley]

 

[oneworld2]

The map is misleading and deliberately so for propaganda purposes

It doesn't include the maritime border with Turkey ( a NATO member) nor does it include Ukraine and Georgia who have been offered NATO membership at some point in the future. Ukraine was a defacto NATO member anyhow , a distinction without a difference

 

[watsup]

The map is misleading and deliberately so for propaganda purposes

It doesn't include the maritime border with Turkey ( a NATO member) nor does it include Ukraine and Georgia who have been offered NATO membership at some point in the future. Ukraine was a defacto NATO member anyhow , a distinction without a difference

“Propagandic purposes, says this guy. Oh the irony!

 

[iguanaman]

NATO states have attacked, either dubiously or outright illegally, more states than Putin has. NATO was created to deal with the USSR, when that went belly up NATO, like the Warsaw Pact, should have been disbanded and a new Russia inclusive European security arrangement set up

Military bases are used to project power in the great game of geopolitics and that's their function. That's why the NATO states have been able to engage in crimes all over the globe, ongoing.

You probably don't know this because out propaganda system blows the socks off the Russian one

Name any country in europe that NATO attacked I dare you. The Russians invented and perfected propaganda for 75 years and kept their people in the dark using it. You are also a victim of Russian propaganda but I think you know that. It makes you warm and tingly inside no doubt.

 

[oneworld2]

Name any country in europe that NATO attacked I dare you. The Russians invented and perfected propaganda for 75 years and kept their people in the dark using it. You are also a victim of Russian propaganda but I think you know that. It makes you warm and tingly inside no doubt.

Recall I said NATO and NATO states

For Europe ,Serbia

Outside of Europe, Libya, Syria, Iraq ,Aghanistan, Grenada, Panama, Vietnam, Algeria, Sudan, Somalia, Pakistan etc

Then we have their global extrajudicial killing drone wars

When we include proxy wars and the overthrowing of national leaderships they don't like the list is just too long to write up

Only people who rely on the western propaganda system for their education come out with stupid statements about NATO and the states that make it up being peaceniks

 

[Chagos]

Only people who rely on the Kremlin propaganda system for their education come out with stupid statements about NATO and the states that make it up being warmongers.

More so when they lie as much as the Kremlin currently does and has been doing for years.

 

[oneworld2]

Only people who rely on the Kremlin propaganda system for their education come out with stupid statements about NATO and the states that make it up being warmongers.

More so when they lie as much as the Kremlin currently does and has been doing for years.

Unfortunately for you there was a list of examples given, so your accusations once more fall flat on their faces

 

[Chagos]

Oh, the list of those on here falling for Kremlin propaganda is indeed endless and so is the demonstration of their falling on their faces continuously.

With the excuse of "look how bad all the others are" coming straight out of Vlad's bedroom of wet dreams but justifying this current atrocity as little by his mindless acolytes as it does by him.

 

[iguanaman]

Unfortunately for you there was a list of examples given, so your accusations once more fall flat on their faces

I asked for States in Europe that NATO attacked and you came up empty. The bombing of Serbia was an humanitarian action to stop a genocide. That would be the case in Ukraine too if Putin was not threatening a nuclear war if we stop him from committing genocide in Ukraine. According to the Kremlin the Russian are out to destroy all Ukraine culture and send those Ukrainians they have not killed to camps. That is genocide.

A Kremlin paper justifies erasing the Ukrainian identity, as Russia is accused of war crimes​

An editorial in a prominent Kremlin media outlet appears to provide justification for the war with its call to erase the Ukrainian identity — language that geopolitical experts say is especially alarming after the discovery of dozens of dead civilians in a Kyiv suburb.
Written by Timofei Sergeitsev in RIA Novosti, the rhetoric in the editorial — entitled "What Russia should do with Ukraine" — is inflammatory, even by the usual Russian state media standards.
It claims the word "Ukraine" itself is synonymous with Nazism and cannot be allowed to exist.
"Denazification is inevitably also De-Ukrainianization," Sergeitsev writes, stating that the idea of Ukrainian culture and identity is fake.
A prominent scholar whose career has been spent studying historical genocide said he felt sickened by reading the article — but he was also convinced that the Kremlin is using it to justify atrocities in Ukraine to the Russian people and the military.
"It's just a clear, pretty laid-out template for what is going to happen," said Eugene Finkel, an associate professor at Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies. "This article crossed the line between talking and thinking about the invasion as some kind of collection of war crimes into something much more co-ordinated."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/kremlin-editorial-ukraine-identity-1.6407921

 

[phoenix2020]

The map is misleading and deliberately so for propaganda purposes

It doesn't include the maritime border with Turkey ( a NATO member) nor does it include Ukraine and Georgia who have been offered NATO membership at some point in the future. Ukraine was a defacto NATO member anyhow , a distinction without a difference

Please, this "Ukraine was a NATO member!" crap is just embarrassing - it's a terrible look for you and you should find a different line of attack.

If Ukraine were a NATO member, we would be bombing Moscow by now Russia wouldn't have had the guts to invade Ukraine. The only reason Ukraine is witnessing its people murdered by Russian soldiers is because (a) it doesn't have nuclear weapons and (b) it's not part of NATO.

I suspect, after what Russia did, Ukraine will become a NATO member and Russia will have to start acting like an adult.

 

[oneworld2]

Please, this "Ukraine was a NATO member!" crap is just embarrassing - it's a terrible look for you and you should find a different line of attack.

If Ukraine were a NATO member, we would be bombing Moscow by now Russia wouldn't have had the guts to invade Ukraine. The only reason Ukraine is witnessing its people murdered by Russian soldiers is because (a) it doesn't have nuclear weapons and (b) it's not part of NATO.

I suspect, after what Russia did, Ukraine will become a NATO member and Russia will have to start acting like an adult.

It's the opposite.

People here don't seem to know that the Ukraine had become a defacto NATO member with regular joint exercises, training of entire battalions over a 6 or 7 years period, weapons, base building projects etc etc

No wonder they were duped into believing there might be a chance of NATO boots on the ground there in the face of a Russian invasion.

None of which was lost on the Russians

Ukraine holds military drills with U.S. forces, NATO allies

Ukraine began joint military exercises with U.S. and other NATO troops on Monday, at a time when neighbouring Russia and Belarus have been holding large-scale drills that alarmed the West.

www.reuters.com

Deployment of UK military bases in Ukraine possible, Russian envoy says

It would mean a circumvention of the basic act and the obligation of military restraint cemented in it, Andrey Kelin also noted

tass.com

HMS Defender: Russian jets and ships shadow British warship

More than 20 jets and two coastguard ships shadow HMS Defender as it sails near Crimea's coast.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Fledermaus]

The map is misleading and deliberately so for propaganda purposes

It doesn't include the maritime border with Turkey ( a NATO member) nor does it include Ukraine and Georgia who have been offered NATO membership at some point in the future. Ukraine was a defacto NATO member anyhow , a distinction without a difference

The map is accurate.

Facts are facts.

What percentage is NATO?