Its Just a FORM nonsense

[TurtleDude]

You see them through an anti gun point of view and answer up with a smart little quip. Though flogger and I don't see eye to eye at least he/she offers up something rather then a little quip agreeing with you.Most of the time.

all we get from him are childish throwaway lines. its why I don't bother anymore with the silliness.

 

[vegas giants]

all we get from him are childish throwaway lines. its why I don't bother anymore with the silliness.

Another meaningless post. Lol

 

[Rucker61]

You see them through an anti gun point of view and answer up with a smart little quip. Though flogger and I don't see eye to eye at least he/she offers up something rather then a little quip agreeing with you.Most of the time.

Yeah. Useless data and claims once disproven still repeated.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yeah. Useless data and claims once disproven still repeated.

when someone is here lying about or concealing their true motivations but rather proffers a facade to serve as a pretext for their concealed motivations, you aren't going to get a great deal of well reasoned arguments in favor of the faux motivation. We get claims that "public safety" is why we need a "form" that only will apply to people who don't sell guns to known criminals etc. When we point out that the Brady Bill has not done a damn thing to make us safer but has cost millions (I know a guy who was delayed two months IMPROPERLY and the GOVERNMENT knew it and still took two months to remedy it after he hired me (I did it pro bono because it was such a bogus denial) to handle it. But thousands of people don't know lawyers who are willing to spend 4-5 hours (my normal rate for that would be 1200-1600 dollars) working for free and in many cases it will take far more hours.

and yet this waste of money and time hasn't made America safer. SO when we point that out, we get childish responses and no evidence and a complete refusal to actually try to rebut say the DUKE study. WHY? because by now it should be obvious to anyone who has spent more than say 10 posts on the gun threads, that public safety has NOTHING to do with the real motivations. Its all about a hatred for lawful gun owners and a desire to harass said owners by pushing for stupid harassing laws.

 

[zsu2357]

Yeah. Useless data and claims once disproven still repeated.

Yeah they are but something is better than nothing.

 

[Maccabee]

The great bulk of them have as illustrated



And those numbers are skyrocketing. In other countries people tend to care about such things and demand government action be taken to curb such violence

View attachment 67221801



Thats right . They do

87 Gun Deaths a Day: Why the Colorado Shooting is Tragically Unsurprising



If that were so then why were more than half of your police officers gunned down since 2000 killed by legal gun owners ?

The EU has more mass shootings than we do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHOfyQVAJ7Q

 

[flogger]

The EU has more mass shootings than we do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHOfyQVAJ7Q

This gun nut really went through some contortions to reach that conclusion :lamo

2015: The year of mass shootings | PBS NewsHour

According to the Tracker’s data, which defines a mass shooting as an incident in which at least four people are killed or wounded, there were 372 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2015, killing 475 and wounding 1,870.

In Europe the following year those figures were 53 dead and 169 injured and that includes Russia and Ukraine who are in a state of low level war ! If you do the math that makes it about 25 times more likely you will be a victim of a mass shooting in the US than in Europe :shock:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4wb9p3/mass-shootings-in-europe-in-2016

The your blogger used figures from the CPRC by discredited gun researcher John Lott, who often manipulates statistics about gun violence in order to advance a misleading pro-gun agenda.

https://www.armedwithreason.com/shooting-down-the-gun-lobbys-favorite-academic-a-lott-of-lies/

 

[zsu2357]

=flogger;1067564341]This gun nut really went through some contortions to reach that conclusion :lamo

2015: The year of mass shootings | PBS NewsHour

475 deaths and 1870 wounded your article says.Chicago violence, homicides and shootings up in 2015 - Chicago Tribune How can this possibly happen in a place like Chicago?
According to the Tracker’s data, which defines a mass shooting as an incident in which at least four people are killed or wounded, there were 372 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2015, killing 475 and wounding 1,870.

In Europe the following year those figures were 53 dead and 169 injured and that includes Russia and Ukraine who are in a state of low level war ! If you do the math that makes it about 25 times more likely you will be a victim of a mass shooting in the US than in Europe :shock:

I'll take my chances being armed thank you very much. I don't like the thought of being a sitting duck.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4wb9p3/mass-shootings-in-europe-in-2016

The your blogger used figures from the CPRC by discredited gun researcher John Lott, who often manipulates statistics about gun violence in order to advance a misleading pro-gun agenda.

https://www.armedwithreason.com/shooting-down-the-gun-lobbys-favorite-academic-a-lott-of-lies/[/QUOTE]
VPC gun banners go to site. https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2014/...caught-fabricating-anti-gun-data-again-still/
This is how it works.https://gunowners.org/opnem01.htm

 

[Maccabee]

This gun nut really went through some contortions to reach that conclusion :lamo

2015: The year of mass shootings | PBS NewsHour

According to the Tracker’s data, which defines a mass shooting as an incident in which at least four people are killed or wounded, there were 372 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2015, killing 475 and wounding 1,870.

That information came from a Reddit page and it counted only shootings, not mass shootings.

In Europe the following year those figures were 53 dead and 169 injured and that includes Russia and Ukraine who are in a state of low level war ! If you do the math that makes it about 25 times more likely you will be a victim of a mass shooting in the US than in Europe :shock:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4wb9p3/mass-shootings-in-europe-in-2016

That didn't account for population.

The your blogger used figures from the CPRC by discredited gun researcher John Lott, who often manipulates statistics about gun violence in order to advance a misleading pro-gun agenda.

https://www.armedwithreason.com/shooting-down-the-gun-lobbys-favorite-academic-a-lott-of-lies/

Actually he's been proven to be very reliable. Even VCP will admit that at the LOW estimates, over 100,000 people save their lives with guns every year. Plus, why are you linking an anti gun site as reliable? Why not link from a neutral source?

 

[blackjack50]

Most of Europe and Canada and many other countries have registration and it works. You complain it is not a perfect system....I just want a better system.

And its just a form

That isn't the right question. The right question is DO THEY USE IT. Having the system doesn't mean it works. This has actually been shown. The registry will be created at huge expense to tax payers (Canada is a good example with a projected cost of $2,000,000 is stated as the amount they need but it ended up growing to $2,700,000,000). Then it goes almost unused. Why? Because it is circumvented the same way I listed. Why should we have to fill out yet ANOTHER form to purchase a firearm...when said form will cost more money and go unused?

You understand logically that it is a flawed system. What you don't seem to grasp is that you CANNOT control criminals with laws. It doesn't work as a deterrent to murder. Why would gun charges would different? What we need is proper enforcement and wholistic approaches to reducing crime that are proven to be effective:

Education, improving economics, dealing with broken drug laws, reducing recidivism, reducing first time offenses, and help treat addiction including alcohol and other drugs. Do you think $2.7 billion could go a long way in those areas?

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[blackjack50]

No you just don't know what it means. Keep trying though. I must say of the gun nutters posting here you are easily the least informed and the most funny :lamo

I can note here how you don't address a single one of my points.

That's 1.

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[Rucker61]

Actually he's been proven to be very reliable. Even VCP will admit that at the LOW estimates, over 100,000 people save their lives with guns every year. Plus, why are you linking an anti gun site as reliable? Why not link from a neutral source?

Check my .sig. flogger has already hung his hat on the 250,000 figure.

 

[vegas giants]

That information came from a Reddit page and it counted only shootings, not mass shootings.



That didn't account for population.

Actually he's been proven to be very reliable. Even VCP will admit that at the LOW estimates, over 100,000 people save their lives with guns every year. Plus, why are you linking an anti gun site as reliable? Why not link from a neutral source?

I love john Lott. He is so freaking hilarious.

 

[vegas giants]

That isn't the right question. The right question is DO THEY USE IT. Having the system doesn't mean it works. This has actually been shown. The registry will be created at huge expense to tax payers (Canada is a good example with a projected cost of $2,000,000 is stated as the amount they need but it ended up growing to $2,700,000,000). Then it goes almost unused. Why? Because it is circumvented the same way I listed. Why should we have to fill out yet ANOTHER form to purchase a firearm...when said form will cost more money and go unused?

You understand logically that it is a flawed system. What you don't seem to grasp is that you CANNOT control criminals with laws. It doesn't work as a deterrent to murder. Why would gun charges would different? What we need is proper enforcement and wholistic approaches to reducing crime that are proven to be effective:

Education, improving economics, dealing with broken drug laws, reducing recidivism, reducing first time offenses, and help treat addiction including alcohol and other drugs. Do you think $2.7 billion could go a long way in those areas?

Registration goes a long way to keeping guns out of the hands of prohibited persons. Do you think 2.7 billion will cure addiction in this country? Please....talk about an imperfect plan

 

[blackjack50]

Registration goes a long way to keeping guns out of the hands of prohibited persons. Do you think 2.7 billion will cure addiction in this country? Please....talk about an imperfect plan

This isn't about an "imperfect plan." This is about the demand for a plan that DOES NOT WORK. Period. I already told you this. I explained it to you. Can you explain to me HOW registration would be ANY different than what we have now? Can you give me an example? As I provided to you...the same method will be used to subvert registration. There is no difference.

It would be like changing your fuel filter when the problem is the bad gas you are putting in the car.

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[vegas giants]

This isn't about an "imperfect plan." This is about the demand for a plan that DOES NOT WORK. Period. I already told you this. I explained it to you. Can you explain to me HOW registration would be ANY different than what we have now? Can you give me an example? As I provided to you...the same method will be used to subvert registration. There is no difference.

It would be like changing your fuel filter when the problem is the bad gas you are putting in the car.

I have given you examples. Reporting your gun stolen MIGHT work once but you are chancing it. The suspect can narc you out. An investigation can show if you knew the suspect. And what a coincidence that he stole your guns. The link to you is just too strong. A jury would see right thru it.

Show me how 2.7 billion is going to cure addiction. You said you want to spend that money on treatment. Show me it will work every time.

 

[blackjack50]

I have given you examples. Reporting your gun stolen MIGHT work once but you are chancing it. The suspect can narc you out. An investigation can show if you knew the suspect. And what a coincidence that he stole your guns. The link to you is just too strong. A jury would see right thru it.

"Beyond a reasonable doubt." You will still need to prove it to that level. And that is no different than the current system. And it is still skirted the same way. And they may "narc" you now. That hasn't changed between old and proposed system.

Show me how 2.7 billion is going to cure addiction. You said you want to spend that money on treatment. Show me it will work every time.

Treatment centers. Programs for jobs and counseling. I didn't say it would cure it. You can't cure problems like that. But you can use proven an effective methods at reducing those problems in our worst communities and you would likely see reductions in crime. It happened in Europe. It happened here in many places. And I didn't just say it had to be addiction. I gave you a list of wholistic methods that have been proven to be effective. The point is that this money can be used in "targeted" locations to reduce problems.

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[TurtleDude]

This isn't about an "imperfect plan." This is about the demand for a plan that DOES NOT WORK. Period. I already told you this. I explained it to you. Can you explain to me HOW registration would be ANY different than what we have now? Can you give me an example? As I provided to you...the same method will be used to subvert registration. There is no difference.

It would be like changing your fuel filter when the problem is the bad gas you are putting in the car.

HE knows that-there is no proof of the silly claims he constantly parrots over and over and over. The purpose of registration is to facilitate taxes on gun owners and then confiscation of the registered guns when the Democrats can get enough votes and a president willing to do it

 

[vegas giants]

"Beyond a reasonable doubt." You will still need to prove it to that level. And that is no different than the current system. And it is still skirted the same way. And they may "narc" you now. That hasn't changed between old and proposed system.



Treatment centers. Programs for jobs and counseling. I didn't say it would cure it. You can't cure problems like that. But you can use proven an effective methods at reducing those problems in our worst communities and you would likely see reductions in crime. It happened in Europe. It happened here in many places. And I didn't just say it had to be addiction. I gave you a list of wholistic methods that have been proven to be effective. The point is that this money can be used in "targeted" locations to reduce problems.

Look registration is done in a lot of countries and they have less gun violence than we do. To say it CAN'T be part of the solution is to stick your head in the sand

 

[TurtleDude]

This isn't about an "imperfect plan." This is about the demand for a plan that DOES NOT WORK. Period. I already told you this. I explained it to you. Can you explain to me HOW registration would be ANY different than what we have now? Can you give me an example? As I provided to you...the same method will be used to subvert registration. There is no difference.

It would be like changing your fuel filter when the problem is the bad gas you are putting in the car.

registration-which cannot be used to punish criminals who refuse to comply with a registration Law (US v Haynes, USSC 1968) works exactly as Vegas wants it to

to harass lawful gun owners and to facilitate future taxes or confiscations.

 

[vegas giants]

registration-which cannot be used to punish criminals who refuse to comply with a registration Law (US v Haynes, USSC 1968) works exactly as Vegas wants it to

to harass lawful gun owners and to facilitate future taxes or confiscations.

Any law can be changed

 

[blackjack50]

Look registration is done in a lot of countries and they have less gun violence than we do.

Are you suggesting that there is NO conceivable way it could even remotely be related to other circumstances? Bearing in mind our murder rates have been falling for 50 years.

To say it CAN'T be part of the solution is to stick your head in the sand

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[vegas giants]

Are you suggesting that there is NO conceivable way it could even remotely be related to other circumstances? Bearing in mind our murder rates have been falling for 50 years.

Are you suggesting that there is NO conceivable way it could even remotely be related to gun registration? That you can prove gun registration plays no part in their current low gun violence?

 

[Rucker61]

Look registration is done in a lot of countries and they have less gun violence than we do. To say it CAN'T be part of the solution is to stick your head in the sand

Explain the effectiveness of comprehensive gun registration in Russia.

 

[vegas giants]

Explain the effectiveness of comprehensive gun registration in Russia.

As soon as Russia is not listed as one of the most corrupt countries on the planet and they have rule of law then we can talk about their laws