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Its Just a FORM nonsense

It's true in the US, according to the link you provided. The three top sources which provide the majority of gun in criminals' hands come from straw purchases, corrupt FFLs and illegal street dealers who get their inventory from the first two sources. Guns from the first to sources are registered to the person who illegally sells them to a criminal. Guns sold by illegal street dealers will never be registered, nor can we prosecute any of those illegal owners for failing to register them. This has been explained to you before.



Which has also been explained to you before, multiple times. Every state is its own largest source of criminal guns regardless of the strictness or laxity of that state's laws. If strict laws in one state were effective enough to prevent criminals from getting guns locally, then that state would not be its own largest source.

their goal is to harass, impede and ultimately ban private firearms ownership. Crime control is only a faux goal they spew in order to hide their true motivations.
 
their goal is to harass, impede and ultimately ban private firearms ownership. Crime control is only a faux goal they spew in order to hide their true motivations.

Its about saving lives
 
their goal is to harass, impede and ultimately ban private firearms ownership. Crime control is only a faux goal they spew in order to hide their true motivations.

If you look at the history of firearms, they were created by humans used a weapon to kill other humans. That is a fact.

Logic is not hard to understand:

More guns = more violence and death
less guns = less violenace and death
 
There's no loophole.

Like straw purchases you mean :roll:

Every single state, even those with the strictest of laws, is its own largest source of guns. If what you said were true, then California's neighboring states would be a large source than California. 2/3 of the guns, according to ATF, originate right there in strict California with licensed gun owners and registered guns. 16 times more guns come originate in California than either of the two "lax law" states next door.

My point remains that states making laws to tighten up their gun control have no chance of succeeding and until such laws are made nationwide that will continue to be the case



Lets look at the example I used and those ATF figures for guns flooding into Mexico due to its proximity to the US

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli.../gIQAtSz9kT_story.html?utm_term=.b0994d4c055a

And for every one of those they have traced I'll bet there are a dozen others which haven't been

Why not just fill out the form and see what happens ?
 
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If you look at the history of firearms, they were created by humans used a weapon to kill other humans. That is a fact.

Logic is not hard to understand:

More guns = more violence and death
less guns = less violenace and death

That simple truism is utterly lost in the tidal wave of denial going on here. Quite honestly I'd imagine you would be able to get a more rational and honest conversation from ISIL members on their beliefs than you could from some gun nutters about their lethal fetishes here :(
 
If you look at the history of firearms, they were created by humans used a weapon to kill other humans. That is a fact.

Actually it is not a fact nor have you presented anything but conjecture. The fact guns are used to kill other humans is a minor role shared by many other instruments. Nor were guns specifically designed to do this any more than a axe was designed to kill. The electric chair, gas chamber, lethal injection, guillotine and hangman's noose were designed to kill. Guns look nothing like them and functionality to the claimed design purpose is very poor. 250,000 small arms rounds fired per man killed in WWII is very poor and a claimed design failure. Any engineer would know this.

Logic is not hard to understand:

For some it is impossible

More guns = more violence and death
less guns = less violenace and death

I fail to see the logic. Logically your statement is only true is you can show causality. Now why did you fail to do that? I'm sure you would like to explain how those guns cause more violence and death. I look forward to seeing that. A description of this causal mechanism and how it functions would be nice. Logic has it that if you cannot show causality you have no logic to your statement, which is false.
 
That simple truism is utterly lost in the tidal wave of denial going on here. Quite honestly I'd imagine you would be able to get a more rational and honest conversation from ISIL members on their beliefs than you could from some gun nutters about their lethal fetishes here :(

Truth is easy to prove. Instead of this diatribe devoid of any facts why not try and prove guns were designed to kill. That should put any doubt to rest.
 
If you look at the history of firearms, they were created by humans used a weapon to kill other humans. That is a fact.

Logic is not hard to understand:

More guns = more violence and death
less guns = less violenace and death

that's just a stupid platitude

gun control laws-disarms people who use guns to prevent crimes

allows those who cause crime to have an advantage over their victims
 
That simple truism is utterly lost in the tidal wave of denial going on here. Quite honestly I'd imagine you would be able to get a more rational and honest conversation from ISIL members on their beliefs than you could from some gun nutters about their lethal fetishes here :(

why the obsessive hatred of another country's rights? there is nothing honest about your hatred of our freedom. and wanting to impose the bedwetting response England had to one massacre to the USA is the real insane response
 
If you look at the history of firearms, they were created by humans used a weapon to kill other humans. That is a fact.

Logic is not hard to understand:

More guns = more violence and death
less guns = less violenace and death

The US has millions of more guns than we did in the 80s and 90s but the homicide rate has dropped to 50% of what it was in the early 90s. We have more guns and less violence. The data is unassailable.
 
why the obsessive hatred of another country's rights? there is nothing honest about your hatred of our freedom. and wanting to impose the bedwetting response England had to one massacre to the USA is the real insane response

This is the massacre you claim people are "bedwetting" over

At about 8:15*a.m. on Wednesday 13 March 1996, Thomas Hamilton, aged 43, was seen scraping ice off his van outside his home at Kent Road in Stirling.[4] He left soon afterwards and drove about 5 miles (8*km) north[5] to Dunblane. He arrived on the grounds of Dunblane Primary School at around 9:30*a.m. and parked his van near a telegraph pole in the car park of the school. Hamilton cut the cables at the bottom of the telegraph pole, which served nearby houses, with a set of pliers before making his way across the car park towards the school buildings.[4]
Hamilton headed towards the north-west side of the school to a door near toilets and the school gymnasium. After entering, he made his way to the gymnasium armed with four legally-held handguns[6]—two 9mm Browning HP pistols and two Smith & Wesson M19 .357 Magnum revolvers.[4] He was also carrying 743 cartridges of ammunition.[3] In the gym was a class of twenty-eight Primary 1 pupils preparing for a PE lesson in the presence of three adult members of staff.[7]
Before entering the gymnasium, it is believed Hamilton fired two shots into the stage of the assembly hall and the girls' toilet.[4] Upon entering the gymnasium, as he was about to be confronted by Eileen Harrild, the PE teacher in charge of the lesson, he started shooting rapidly and randomly. He shot Harrild, who was injured in her arms and chest as she attempted to protect herself, and continued shooting into the gymnasium.[4][7] Harrild stumbled into the open-plan store cupboard at the side of the gym along with several injured children. Gwen Mayor, the teacher of the Primary 1 class, was shot and killed instantly. The other adult present, Mary Blake, a supervisory assistant, was shot in the head and both legs but also managed to make her way to the store cupboard with several of the children in front of her.[4]
From entering the gymnasium and walking a few steps, Hamilton had fired 29 shots with one of the pistols, killed one child, and injured several others. Four injured children had taken shelter in the store cupboard along with the injured Harrild and Blake. Hamilton then moved up the east side of the gym, firing six shots as he walked, and then fired eight shots towards the opposite end of the gym. He then went towards the centre of the gym, firing 16 shots at point-blank range at a group of children who had been incapacitated by his earlier shots.[4]
A Primary 7 pupil who was walking along the west side of the gym building at the time heard loud bangs and screams and looked inside the gym. Hamilton shot in his direction and the pupil was injured by flying glass before running away. From this position, Hamilton fired 24 shots in various directions. He fired shots towards a window next to the fire exit at the south-east end of the gym, possibly at an adult who was walking across the playground, and then fired four more shots in the same direction after opening the fire exit door. Hamilton then exited the gym briefly through the fire exit, firing another four shots towards the cloakroom of the library, striking and injuring Grace Tweddle, another member of staff at the school.[4]
In the mobile classroom closest to the fire exit where Hamilton was standing, Catherine Gordon saw him firing shots and instructed her Primary 7 class to get down onto the floor before Hamilton fired nine bullets into the classroom, striking books and equipment. One bullet passed through a chair where a child had been sitting seconds before. Hamilton then reentered the gym, dropped the pistol he was using, and took out one of the two revolvers. He put the barrel of the gun in his mouth, pointed it upwards, and pulled the trigger, killing himself. A total of 32 people sustained gunshot wounds inflicted by Hamilton over a 3–4-minute period, 16 of whom were fatally wounded in the gymnasium, which included Mayor and 15 of her pupils. One other child died later en route to hospital.[4]
 
The US has millions of more guns than we did in the 80s and 90s but the homicide rate has dropped to 50% of what it was in the early 90s. We have more guns and less violence. The data is unassailable.

We have more gun deaths than any other first world nation by a mile. The data is overwhelming
 
We have more gun deaths than any other first world nation by a mile. The data is overwhelming

What does "first world" have to do with the claim that more guns = more deaths? That's four words, none of which are "first" or "world". We know that we have more guns than any other country per capita yet our intentional death rate is well below the highest rates, and lower than some "first world" countries with no guns. We know that we added millions of guns to our inventory and saw a commensurate plunge in our homicide rate.

You're arguing a completely different argument.
 
What does "first world" have to do with the claim that more guns = more deaths? That's four words, none of which are "first" or "world". We know that we have more guns than any other country per capita yet our intentional death rate is well below the highest rates, and lower than some "first world" countries with no guns. We know that we added millions of guns to our inventory and saw a commensurate plunge in our homicide rate.

You're arguing a completely different argument.
No my argument is quite clear
 
Truth is easy to prove. Instead of this diatribe devoid of any facts why not try and prove guns were designed to kill. That should put any doubt to rest.

That response serves to highlight just how indoctrinated Americans are about having the facility to easily kill each other

Unbelievable :shock:
 
why the obsessive hatred of another country's rights? there is nothing honest about your hatred of our freedom. and wanting to impose the bedwetting response England had to one massacre to the USA is the real insane response

Why does it matter so much to you about the country I come from when addressing this insanity ?
 
that's just a stupid platitude

gun control laws-disarms people who use guns to prevent crimes

allows those who cause crime to have an advantage over their victims

A tiny fraction of your gun deaths are as a consequence of preventing crimes ..... but you already knew that :wink:
 
Actually Japan eredicated gun crime in the 16th century when the Tokugawa Shogunate eliminated the right of the common people to own firearms. They also eliminated every other civil right. You could be summarily killed for possessing a gun. You could be summarily killed for not immediately obeying a government official. You could be executed for merely back talking an official. A few centuries of that kind of control and a certain societal mindset is firmly established.

I'll pass, thanks.

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htm

Nice to know you want more violence and death on the streets. FYI, they did massive gun control in Austrailia as well, and... it worked!
 
Nice to know you want more violence and death on the streets.

If you're praising the Tokugawa regime for getting rid of all civil rights, but granting the government and nobility the right to summarily execute the common people under the guise of "effective gin control", then you really should some more history.

FYI, they did massive gun control in Austrailia as well, and... it worked!

FYI, Australia banned about 30 % of all of their guns, collected only about 70% of those that were banned and actually have more guns now than they they did in 1996, the year of the ban. They saw higher number of homicides for four of the next six years and significant increases in sexual assaults/rapes and armed robberies. Since 1996, the rate of decline in their homicide rate is about the same as the decline in the US homicide rate.

http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/vicViolentCol.html

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2015
 
If you're praising the Tokugawa regime for getting rid of all civil rights, but granting the government and nobility the right to summarily execute the common people under the guise of "effective gin control", then you really should some more history.



FYI, Australia banned about 30 % of all of their guns, collected only about 70% of those that were banned and actually have more guns now than they they did in 1996, the year of the ban. They saw higher number of homicides for four of the next six years and significant increases in sexual assaults/rapes and armed robberies. Since 1996, the rate of decline in their homicide rate is about the same as the decline in the US homicide rate.

Victims of violent crime (n per year)

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2015

The NRA has you by the nads.

Have you heard of the DICKEY AMENDMENT? This amendment prevents the CDC from even studying gun violence. This amendment is so absurd, the man who is named after this bill wants it overturned.

Public opinion favors gun control however the NRA is a powerful advocacy group.
 
If you're praising the Tokugawa regime for getting rid of all civil rights, but granting the government and nobility the right to summarily execute the common people under the guise of "effective gin control", then you really should some more history.



FYI, Australia banned about 30 % of all of their guns, collected only about 70% of those that were banned and actually have more guns now than they they did in 1996, the year of the ban. They saw higher number of homicides for four of the next six years and significant increases in sexual assaults/rapes and armed robberies. Since 1996, the rate of decline in their homicide rate is about the same as the decline in the US homicide rate.

Victims of violent crime (n per year)

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2015

 
The NRA has you by the nads.

Have you heard of the DICKEY AMENDMENT? This amendment prevents the CDC from even studying gun violence. This amendment is so absurd, the man who is named after this bill wants it overturned.

Dickey Amendment - 1996
This study 2003:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

This one, 2015:

CDC releases final report on Wilmington?s high rates of gun violence | Delaware First Media

The CDC doesn't even have Constitutional legal experts on staff. The Department of Justice does, and they are the preferred government agency to study gun and other types of violence. Some of their reports:

https://archive.org/stream/NijGunPolicyMemo/nij-gun-policy-memo_djvu.txt

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2172

Public opinion favors gun control however the NRA is a powerful advocacy group.

If public opinion is based on a level of knowledge similar to what you've displayed here, it's understandable when we fight those ideas so fervently. Rights are not dependent upon public opinion, and unless any new gun control is Constitutional, effective, enforceable and would be enforced, it's just bad policy based on emotions.
 
A tiny fraction of your gun deaths are as a consequence of preventing crimes ..... but you already knew that :wink:

why so obsessed with a country that you are not a voting citizen nor a resident of? Most crimes that are prevented by armed citizens don't require the citizen to shoot anyone. Just as most arrests of criminals by cops don't require the cops to shoot the suspects either. But you already knew that. You also know that its already illegal to do anything harmful with a gun in our country. and anyone who reads your posts figures out that crime control is a facade for the real reason why you despise our rights
 
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