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It Should Only Be Against The Law To Do Bad Stuff

So I suppose you can blame the car companies who manufacture and sell the cars that the shooters drive to get to the places where they do their mass shootings. Such companies, by providing transportation to the killers, do make it easier for them to mass kill after all.

Cars are required to be registered and licensed. There are rules about how fast you can drive them, which side of the street you can drive them on, how many mirrors it must be equipped with, etc.

As long as I don't run anyone over, how is it anyone's business if I do 90 mph in a school zone or swerve back and forth across lanes?

Driving fast doesn't make someone a bad person.
 
Cars aren't specifically designed to kill things.
Alright, how about stuff that was designed to kill things such as the bow and arrow? The bow and arrow was designed to kill things so should it be banned?
They are designed to get people from one place to another, and they have many safety features.
Lots of guns have many safety features too, they've got safeties that have to be deactivated for the gun to be fired and there's some guns that need a magazine in it to fire. With some guns, even if you have a round in the chamber, if you don't have a magazine in the gun it won't fire, so guns have safety features too.
 
Right. So, let's not make it any easier for them to rack up more carnage numbers.
I say lets not make it possible for them to rack up any carnage numbers, they should be put away the moment we realize there's something wrong with them.
 
I already covered all that. Can you give me a good reason these high capacity magazine,
What do you mean by high capacity? If you're talking about 40 round magazines that is not high capacity that is standard capacity. The gun typically comes with a magazine that size. High capacity would be your 100 round drums and I don't use or recommend those as they are way too prone to malfunctions.
war-style weapons
They are not war style, for them to be war style they would have to be full automatics. Instead they're semi automatics just like most hunting rifles. Particularly if you're hunting medium or large game you will often need a quick follow up shot so most hunting rifles are semi automatics.
are needed at all in a civilized society?
Hunting, target shooting, self denense.

And besides, if we go back to what this thread is all about, the plain act of owning such weapons doesn't make somebody a bad person.
 
Cars are required to be registered and licensed.
Only if you drive them on public roads, the licensing and registration is for use of the road more than it is for use and ownership of the car.
There are rules about how fast you can drive them, which side of the street you can drive them on, how many mirrors it must be equipped with, etc.
Again, that has to do if you're going to drive the car on public roads, so it has to do with use of the road not use and ownership of the car.
As long as I don't run anyone over, how is it anyone's business if I do 90 mph in a school zone or swerve back and forth across lanes?
Because you're endangering people and putting them at significant risk, just because you might be lucky enough, and they might be lucky enough, that you don't hit anybody, doesn't mean you should do it.
Driving fast doesn't make someone a bad person.
It does when you're endangering innocent people. If you want to drive fast, go to a racetrack.
 
Only if you drive them on public roads, the licensing and registration is for use of the road more than it is for use and ownership of the car.

Cars have to be registered when you purchase them. Each car has a registered owner, and if a car is misused, the police can track down the registered owner in the course of their investigation.

Because you're endangering people and putting them at significant risk, just because you might be lucky enough, and they might be lucky enough, that you don't hit anybody, doesn't mean you should do it.

Having gun in your home likewise puts the people in your home at risk.
 
Cars have to be registered when you purchase them. Each car has a registered owner, and if a car is misused, the police can track down the registered owner in the course of their investigation.
No it doesn't. You only have to register it if you're driving it from the dealership (as that would involve driving it on public roads.) You can buy a car, have it toed to your house, and only drive it on your own property without having it registered. This is particularly common for people who live on farms and where the license plate would be on such cars instead there would be a sign saying, "farm use only."
Having gun in your home likewise puts the people in your home at risk.
Whether or not a gun in the home puts the people in your home at risk depends on the person who's keeping the gun in their home.
 
How is it disregarding reality? Assaulting someone generally means trying to hurt them.
Assault is a credible threat to inflict harm.

Actual violent contact with a person is called battery.

Pointing a gun at someone is assault.

I'd have to look it up, but pointing a gun at someone may even be aggravated assault.


Do y'all over on the right cry "assault" every time someone misgenders you or something?
People don't have any difficulty determining what gender I am.


I haven't seen a single person giving that as their reason for wanting to regulate AR-15s.
No one can provide any other alternative motivation for violating people's civil liberties.

Since no one is able to provide any other motivation for violating people's civil liberties, my proposed explanation stands as the only proposed motivation.


It appears that you are misinformed.
The fact that no one can provide any other possible motivation for violating people's civil liberties is evidence that my proposed motivation is the true one.


Cars are required to be registered and licensed.
No they aren't. That is only required for driving on public roads.


There are rules about how fast you can drive them, which side of the street you can drive them on, how many mirrors it must be equipped with, etc.
As above, only if they are driven on public roads.


As long as I don't run anyone over, how is it anyone's business if I do 90 mph in a school zone or swerve back and forth across lanes?
Driving fast doesn't make someone a bad person.
Setting aside the fact that you don't have a right to do that (whereas people do have a right to have ordinary hunting rifles like the AR-15), those activities are actually dangerous (whereas choosing an AR-15 for a hunting rifle poses no danger to anyone).

There is a large difference between "a harmless activity that people have an express right to do" and "an activity that people have no right to do and which poses a danger to the public".


Cars have to be registered when you purchase them. Each car has a registered owner, and if a car is misused, the police can track down the registered owner in the course of their investigation.
No they don't. Not if they will not be driven on public roads.


Having gun in your home likewise puts the people in your home at risk.
Having a bathtub in your home puts people in your home at risk.

Having a stairway in your home puts people in your home at risk.
 
They both make it easier, not more difficult,
That is incorrect. The NRA does not make it easier to commit mass murder. Again, gun control is not even about trying to stop murders.


and continue to do nothing after each mass murder, so they're complicit in my, and many, many others' opinions.
The gun control movement does not try to do anything about mass murders either. I guess they are complicit as well.


Why, make it easy for them to get a high capacity magazine war-type weapon to mow down children with ease, of course! :rolleyes:
No one has ever used a weapon of war to harm children in the US.


That is incorrect. Facts and reality are not BS. Ordinary hunting rifles like the AR-15 are not weapons of war.


It's designed like the war weapons
No they aren't.


with, fortunately, some limitations.
Limitations that make them nothing like a weapon of war.


The wounds they inflict are just as bad, especially on a child!
That is the nature of a hunting rifle. Shotguns too for that matter.


As I've said, you can't predict what someone without any priors is going to do, so why take the chance of more mass murdered children by having easy access to war-style weapons that have no sane use in a civilized society?
Again, no one has ever used a weapon of war to harm children in the US.


So, again, why make it easier?
Allowing people to choose their preferred brand of hunting rifle does nothing to make killing easier.


We do not need these ridiculous mass killing implements in a civilized society.
We're not serfs and you are not our lord. You have no say over what brand of gun we have. We will decide that for ourselves.


Cars aren't specifically designed to kill things. They are designed to get people from one place to another, and they have many safety features.
Interesting trivia.

By the way, Mount Everest is 884,890 centimeters high.


Right. So, let's not make it any easier for them to rack up more carnage numbers.
Letting people choose their preferred brand of hunting rifle does nothing to make carnage easier.


Can you give me a good reason these high capacity magazine, war-style weapons are needed at all in a civilized society?
We're not serfs and you are not our lord. You have no say over what brand of gun we have. We will decide that for ourselves.
 
Having a stairway in your home puts people in your home at risk.

Correct. And the task then becomes to weigh the risks verses the benefits, and to regulate in such a way as to optimize the ratio of risks to benefits.

This is why have things like building codes to regulate safety standards for things like stairs, in order to mitigate as much of the risk as we can, while retaining as much benefit as possible.
 
Correct. And the task then becomes to weigh the risks verses the benefits, and to regulate in such a way as to optimize the ratio of risks to benefits.
This is why have things like building codes to regulate safety standards for things like stairs, in order to mitigate as much of the risk as we can, while retaining as much benefit as possible.
Some people weigh the risks and benefits and choose to have guns. They have an express right to do so.
 
Penalizing after the evil has been done is a deterrent because it serves as an example of what happens when people do bad stuff, and therefore it will make people less likely to do bad stuff.
LOL, it doesn't even keep the same people from doing the same thing when they get out. Like right away,
 
Some people weigh the risks and benefits and choose to have guns.

And some people weigh the risks and benefits and choose to drive 90 in a school zone.

They have an express right to do so.

In some parts of the world they do. In other parts they don't. Whether the 2nd Amendment exists in the US or not wasn't in question.

The topic is whether something should still be considered a crime even if no one was hurt by it.

For example, immigration laws are obviously a bunch of victimless crime nonsense, since just walking across an imaginary line between countries doesn't hurt anyone or make someone a "bad person."
 
And some people weigh the risks and benefits and choose to drive 90 in a school zone.
That actually poses a danger to the public.

Choosing an AR-15 as your preferred brand of hunting rifle poses no danger to anyone.


For example, immigration laws are obviously a bunch of victimless crime nonsense, since just walking across an imaginary line between countries doesn't hurt anyone or make someone a "bad person."
I actually kind of side with the far left on immigration.

In my opinion, illegal immigrants who are willing to be productive members of our society (which I believe is true of most illegal immigrants) should be provided a quick and easy pathway to full citizenship.

Note my avatar. I may be a conservative. But I'm a conservative Democrat.
 
Such laws are unconstitutional. It is the people who support such laws who are evil...

...No. Laws against the brand name of a gun have nothing to do with making crime harder to carry out...
As a gun owner who owns a couple of AR's, I disagree we shouldn't ban them, it makes as much sense as banning every semi-auto rifle, which will never happen. What I agree with is the effort to ban 'assault weapons', defined by a detachable magazine capacity over 10 rounds, bump stocks that allow a semi-auto to fire near the rate of machine guns and folding stocks.

Once we replace the Justices in Trump's pocket, bump stock will be made illegal, but until then banning the other features are not unconstitutional as they're in place in many states. People who want these features made illegal are not "evil". I'm against banning AR's, yet I don't hate the ones that do, nor do I call them, "evil".

Trump will lose the election for this kind of dark, hateful rhetoric. It's a view originating from the cult and while I'm glad it will help Trump lose, I'm saddened to know so many Americans consider their political opponents, "evil". Optimism and calls for unity will always attract more women, independents and moderate Repubs, the ones who'll win this race for Harris...
 
That actually poses a danger to the public.

Choosing an AR-15 as your preferred brand of hunting rifle poses no danger to anyone.

Whether society is correct in its assessment of the dangers to public safety posed by the AR-15 in particular is not relevant.

The topic is whether society has a right to set the rules in its own house in the interest of public safety, or whether "victimless crimes" should all be fine, and only cases where someone is actually hurt or killed or stolen from should be treated as crimes.
 
They both make it easier, not more difficult, and continue to do nothing after each mass murder, so they're complicit in my, and many, many others' opinions.
No, the NRA and the Republican Party make it harder to commit murder because they reenforce the right for good honest people to defend themselves from would be murderers.
 
LOL, it doesn't even keep the same people from doing the same thing when they get out. Like right away,
That's why such people should not get out so soon. We need longer sentences, in some cases much longer.
 
No, the NRA and the Republican Party make it harder to commit murder because they reenforce the right for good honest people to defend themselves from would be murderers.

And yet, folks over in the U.K. are many times less likely to be murdered than folks over here in the US.
 
Whether society is correct in its assessment of the dangers to public safety posed by the AR-15 in particular is not relevant.
Society has assessed no such thing. Gun control is not about protecting people from danger. It is only about maliciously violating people's civil liberties for no reason.

The fact that "the brand of a gun" poses no danger is very relevant. It means that society is not permitted to outlaw brand names.


The topic is whether society has a right to set the rules in its own house in the interest of public safety, or whether "victimless crimes" should all be fine, and only cases where someone is actually hurt or killed or stolen from should be treated as crimes.
That's not an either/or proposition. Those are three independent questions.


whether society has a right to set the rules in its own house in the interest of public safety,
It does not. The Bill of Rights overrides the wishes of society whenever the two come into conflict.


whether "victimless crimes" should all be fine,
For the most part, yes.

There may be a few exceptions. I am not prepared to come up with any examples. I merely recognize that exceptions may exist.


only cases where someone is actually hurt or killed or stolen from should be treated as crimes.
No. Behavior that is genuinely dangerous can be regulated by society.


And yet, folks over in the U.K. are many times less likely to be murdered than folks over here in the US.
Our high poverty areas do indeed have lots of crime.
 
As a gun owner who owns a couple of AR's, I disagree we shouldn't ban them, it makes as much sense as banning every semi-auto rifle, which will never happen. What I agree with is the effort to ban 'assault weapons', defined by a detachable magazine capacity over 10 rounds, bump stocks that allow a semi-auto to fire near the rate of machine guns and folding stocks.
That is not the definition of assault weapon.

Assault weapons were outlawed some 40 years ago.

Given the fact that no assault weapon that is (or was ever) legally owned by an American civilian has ever been used to commit a crime, that ban is unjustified and should be lifted.


a detachable magazine capacity over 10 rounds,
Any gun that can accept a detachable magazine, can accept a detachable magazine of any size. Your proposal would outlaw all guns that can accept detachable magazines.

People have the right to have detachable magazines of at least 30 rounds in size, so your proposal would also violate the Second Amendment.


bump stocks that allow a semi-auto to fire near the rate of machine guns
I am willing to trade "restrictions on bump stocks" for "a repeal of the Hughes Amendment".


and folding stocks.
There is no justification for outlawing folding stocks. People have the right to have them.


Once we replace the Justices in Trump's pocket, bump stock will be made illegal,
If progressives succeed in replacing the justices who support the Constitution, progressives will then wantonly violate people's civil liberties. That will be bad in the short term.

But then once Republicans retake power, they will appoint about 10,000 conservatives to the Supreme Court and all the appeals courts, and the progressive reign of terror will come to an end.


but until then banning the other features are not unconstitutional as they're in place in many states.
That is incorrect. Since "outlawing the other features" violates the Second Amendment, doing so is unconstitutional.

Your claim is also bad logic. The fact that some states are wantonly violating the Constitution is not "evidence" that their actions are constitutional.

Think of it this way: If the police were getting away with beating confessions out of suspects, would the fact that they were doing so be "evidence" that there were no constitutional violations?


People who want these features made illegal are not "evil".
People who maliciously violate other people's civil liberties for no reason can be fairly characterized as being evil.


I'm against banning AR's, yet I don't hate the ones that do, nor do I call them, "evil".
I would say it is more a case of "progressives hating America" than the reverse.

Although America can't be blamed for harboring ill feelings towards progressives, given all the harm that progressives cause.


Trump will lose the election for this kind of dark, hateful rhetoric.
That remains to be seen. It would be better for America if he wins. The left really does hate America and plans to destroy us all.
 
Actually, it kinda does say that. We have determined, collectively, that there are some weapons not for use in the hands of an individual but constitutionally you don't have much wiggle room to make that argument.

No it doesn’t kinda say that. It isn’t specific at all about what weapons we can personally own.
 
That has to do with culture not guns because you can get guns in the UK.

So you think folks are many times less likely to get murdered in the UK because of the strong gun culture there where nearly everyone carries a gun for self defense?

And you don't think that is just a little bit divorced from reality?
 
So you think folks are many times less likely to get murdered in the UK because of the strong gun culture there where nearly everyone carries a gun for self defense?
Not everybody carries a gun for self defense in the USA.
And you don't think that is just a little bit divorced from reality?
If the UK has a lower murder rate than the USA it's not because of guns or lack thereof.
 
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