It is time for NATA to accept Ukraine as a member.

[notquiteright]

Another thing Russia wants is control of a buffer zone between Europe and the Motherland. Territory they can retreat across, scorching the earth, next time a Napoleon or a Hitler comes knocking.

They'd do a bit better creating a military based on professionalism and not corruption. Armies that need a buffer zone are admitting they are terrible. The sorry performance the Russian Army in the Ukraine does tend to show the need for a loooong buffer area, perhaps all of Europe....

 

[dandolo2k]

Me thinketh by Ukraine NATA should be IGNATA (Ignored in Ukro-style).

 

[dandolo2k]

Who are you talking about. English please.

May be it should read

Sharing a common enemy does't make magically you buddies.

?
English is certainly not a strong point of today's "native speakers".

 

[Schrott]

NATO treaty does not permit a country at war to become a member.
Simple answer.

And now back to WWIII

 

[Juin]

Russia will destroy the world just to subjugate Ukraine?

And Nato will destroy the world just to subjugate Russia?

If they are that crazy then call them on it now before they get more powerful.

I suppose you have your case for SMO

 

[Juin]

Putin is not a mad dog else he would have already been shot.

Maybe that mad dog has nukes

The people around him do not want to die.

Did they tell you that? Or you just wishing that?

 

[Juin]

The world deserves it. Nuclear bullies need to be put down.

How?

 

[Juin]

Only takes one to twitch and jerk and seizure though.
There's no WW3 in the offing, much as Putin's fanbois like the term.

How is that your call?

 

[Juin]

Russia is no more a nuclear bully than Pakistan is. There's no value in a weapon you're afraid to use.

That weapon has already been used twice. I don't think you were alive then.

 

[Juin]

What on earth makes you think Russia would instigate nuclear war over Ukraine?

Why would Nato instigate WWIII over Ukraine?

This is just the old right-wing fear-mongering that they sell to their dumbass supporters, the Democrats are flirting with WW3. Russia is no more capable of world war than North Korea is.
Give your head a shake and look around.

You are the one with your head in the sand. Why do you think nations arm themselves with nukes? Decoration?

 

[craig]

How?

By supporting Ukraine like we are doing now. Eventually Putin will fall and Russia will become a European country, but we must keep the pressure on.

 

[Juin]

Well there won't be until it happens.

Exactly! Why some see a man bristling with nukes and pretend it's for decorations beats me.

 

[Juin]

You actually think Russia is capable of fighting a World War?
What would the sides look like in this 'world' war?

Exactly why do you think they are bristling with nukes?

 

[Juin]

By supporting Ukraine like we are doing now. Eventually Putin will fall and Russia will become a European country, but we must keep the pressure on.

That's how you take down a man bristling with nukes. Brilliant

 

[craig]

That's how you take down a man bristling with nukes. Brilliant

Yes. That change will happen internally. The Russian people are not stupid or suicidal. They have done it before. Hope this time they can make it stick.

 

[Grand Mal]

Why would Nato instigate WWIII over Ukraine?







You are the one with your head in the sand. Why do you think nations arm themselves with nukes? Decoration?

Why do you always answer a question with a question?

There's no NATO involvement in Ukraine and there can't be any. Individual NATO members are free to do what they will but NATO can only get involved if a member nation is attacked in Europe or North America.
What do you think would trigger a nuclear response, and where? If, for example, the British SAS or Royal Marines were to aid Ukraine and engage Russians there, do you reckon Moscow would nuke London?
Russia is not capable of effective conventional warfare, never mind nuclear world war.

 

[Juin]

Yes. That change will happen internally. The Russian people are not stupid or suicidal. They have done it before. Hope this time they can make it stick.

You are not addressing the nukes problem. You are just wishing them away. Hope is not a strategy. If a man is bristling with nukes, and he has to be taken down as you have called for, then the obvious request is how to destroy or suppress those nukes. To say he should not be expected to use them is strange, to say the least

 

[Juin]

Why do you always answer a question with a question?

The best answer to a question can also be a question. From the Russian end the approach of a formidable, nuclear armed alliance amounts to baiting WWIII. Should we just pretend that away?

There's no NATO involvement in Ukraine and there can't be any. Individual NATO members are free to do what they will but NATO can only get involved if a member nation is attacked in Europe or North America.
What do you think would trigger a nuclear response, and where? If, for example, the British SAS or Royal Marines were to aid Ukraine and engage Russians there, do you reckon Moscow would nuke London?
Russia is not capable of effective conventional warfare, never mind nuclear world war.

You are just pretending the problem away.

 

[craig]

You are not addressing the nukes problem. You are just wishing them away. Hope is not a strategy. If a man is bristling with nukes, and he has to be taken down as you have called for, then the obvious request is how to destroy or suppress those nukes. To say he should not be expected to use them is strange, to say the least

Putin will not use nukes in Ukraine because Ukraine will retaliate in kind. To think Ukraine does not have access to nukes is naive. They are most likely Russian made.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Appreciate who this is coming from with his usual contempt for all things Russia, but NATO accepting Ukraine will pretty much ensure continued mess over there even if just political and acts of antagonism for years to come. Damn near a mini cold war between Russia, whatever other parts end up annexed off to Russia, and whatever is left of Ukraine.

All of that is a lengthy way of saying joining NATO would be viewed as an escalation by those outside of NATO.

 

[Grand Mal]

The best answer to a question can also be a question.

Yeah, you're Socrates reincarnated.

From the Russian end the approach of a formidable, nuclear armed alliance amounts to baiting WWIII. Should we just pretend that away?

Pay attention.
There's no NATO involvement and there can't be any unless Russia attacks a NATO member.

You are just pretending the problem away.

You're just pretending Russia is a world power that can't be defied.

 

[Juin]

Putin will not use nukes in Ukraine because Ukraine will retaliate in kind. To think Ukraine does not have access to nukes is naive. They are most likely Russian made.

You keep repeating what Russia will not do as if it's up to you. If you are calling for taking down a man bristling with nukes you have to come up with a plan on how to suppress those nukes. If he chooses to use them what do you do? A plan must grapple with worst case scenario from adversary. Yours hopes the other side is not suicidal.

 

[Juin]

Yeah, you're Socrates reincarnated.

Pay attention.
There's no NATO involvement and there can't be any unless Russia attacks a NATO member.

You're just pretending Russia is a world power that can't be defied.

Easy, you are the one pretending away the problem. You write volumes like it's some legalistic, abstract matter. Nukes are not abstract matters. Come up with a serious plan on how to deal with them.

 

[craig]

You keep repeating what Russia will not do as if it's up to you. If you are calling for taking down a man bristling with nukes you have to come up with a plan on how to suppress those nukes. If he chooses to use them what do you do? A plan must grapple with worst case scenario from adversary. Yours hopes the other side is not suicidal.

You keep saying Russia when you mean Putin. If Putin goes insane Russia will remove him. Or are you arguing Putin is already insane and Russia is unable to remove him?

 

[Juin]

You keep saying Russia when you mean Putin. If Putin goes insane Russia will remove him. Or are you arguing Putin is already insane and Russia is unable to remove him?

Am I supposed to debate with you what Russians will, or will not do? Russians can do what they like. What you cannot, or should not do is base a plan on Russians acting to suit you