Israel's End Game

[shiznit770]

Does the Gaza offensive signal that the Israeli government has decided to embark on the end game? The scale of the effort—a massive aerial assault, with Israeli tanks massing along Gaza's border in evident preparation for a ground-assault—certainly suggests that. What does the "end game" mean? I quote a longtime senior Israeli defense adviser: A military effort to crush Palestinian resistance for a generation.

News Week - Israel's End Game - Dec 29, 2008

Does anyone else see compromise and diplomacy becoming more and more important to the region's stability?

 

[Vader]

Does anyone else see compromise and diplomacy becoming more and more important to the region's stability?

I would say Israel is sick of Hamas' bull****.

Hamas' terrorist asses are about to get what they deserve.

There cannot be peace in Gaza until Hamas is destroyed.

 

[shiznit770]

I would say Israel is sick of Hamas' bull****.

Hamas' terrorist asses are about to get what they deserve.

There cannot be peace in Gaza until Hamas is destroyed.

Replace Hamas and Israel and you're a terrorist!

 

[Truth Detector]

Does anyone else see compromise and diplomacy becoming more and more important to the region's stability?

Please explain to me how diplomacy can work when Palestinian terrorist organizations like Hammas exist?

They don't want diplomacy; the only acceptable solution to them is the destruction of the State of Israel. How do you negotiate with that position?

Until Hammas and other ignorant organizations like them renounce their desire to destroy the State of Israel, there will be NO diplomacy and diplomatic solution. Therefore the ONLY acceptable solution is the destruction of such terrorist driven organizations and continual attacks against their interests.

IF the Palestinian people truly wanted peace, it could be obtained tomorrow. The don't want peace, they don't want diplomacy and any efforts to do such will end up the same way they have for the last six decades; in failure.

Israel gave up the Gaza strip in an effort to promote a dialogue and peaceful diplomacy. The Palestinian response was continual indiscriminate rocket attacks on Jewish settlements and destruction of homes formerly occupied by Jews. Yep, they are such a peaceful society they couldn't even stand to live in the same buildings Jews lived in and tore them down.

 

[donsutherland1]

Shiznit770,

If the Hamas terrorist group, which rejects any kind of compromise with Israel, is significantly weakened or, better yet, destroyed, the position of Palestinian moderates would be strengthened. At a minimum, the lives of ordinary Palestinians would then have a genuine chance for improvement.

With moderates in a stronger position, then, and only then, would the chances for a diplomatic solution increase, though success still would not be assured. However, so long as Hamas remains sufficiently strong, it is in a position to thwart prospects for peace and, worse, perpetuate its radical ideology that proclaims peace with Israel an "abuse" against Islam.

 

[TheNextEra]

If the Hamas terrorist group, which rejects any kind of compromise with Israel, is significantly weakened or, better yet, destroyed, the position of Palestinian moderates would be strengthened.

While I do not agree with Hamas's views, I don't agree that pounding them into oblivion is the answer either.

Each time Israel kills an innocent person, their family just becomes more supportive of Hamas, or worse joins them.

If creating more terrorists is Israel's goal, their doing a good job of it with their campaign.

 

[Truth Detector]

What profound nonsense. I see that REALITY continues to elude you.

Each time Israel kills an innocent person, their family just becomes more supportive of Hamas, or worse joins them.

Each time Israel kills an innocent person, it is because the terrorists have used the civilians as a shield. Earth to TheNextEra; Israeli's target terrorists, the terrorists target civilians.

Now you have the FACTS.

If creating more terrorists is Israel's goal, their doing a good job of it with their campaign.

More terrorists can only be created by the ignorance exhibited by the West, neighboring Arab nations and the UN which continue to bury their head in the sand and pretend it is the Israeli's fault and not their own and refuse to STRONGLY condemn the actions of terrorist organizations like Hammas.

Carry on. :2wave:

 

[TheNextEra]

What profound nonsense. I see that REALITY continues to elude you.

Sorry but it's true. More terrorists are being created by Israel's excessive actions. Your nonsense is thinking that killing innocents is the way to go. I see that you care nothing for life.

Each time Israel kills an innocent person, it is because the terrorists have used the civilians as a shield. Earth to TheNextEra; Israeli's target terrorists, the terrorists target civilians.

Earth to TD, it doesn't matter what the terrorists are doing if someone that is innocent dies, they will blame Israel. That creates more terrorists.

Now you have the FACTS.

And the facts are Israel is creating more terrorists, not solving the problem when they use excessive force and kill hundreds of innocent people.

More terrorists can only be created by the ignorance exhibited by the West, neighboring Arab nations and the UN which continue to bury their head in the sand and pretend it is the Israeli's fault and not their own and refuse to STRONGLY condemn the actions of terrorist organizations like Hammas.

Carry on. :2wave:

More terrorists are being created by Israel's camping. Carry on and keep supporting creating more.

 

[bhkad]

While I do not agree with Hamas's views, I don't agree that pounding them into oblivion is the answer either.

Each time Israel kills an innocent person, their family just becomes more supportive of Hamas, or worse joins them.

If creating more terrorists is Israel's goal, their doing a good job of it with their campaign.

At some point every person who loses someone to violence has to decide to live again or devote their life to death and revenge. If there are those who feel this way then maybe they are already dead.

In WWII the hundreds of millions of people who lost loved ones "got over it."

Palestinians would need to decide if they wanted to pour good blood away after spilled blood.

 

[TheNextEra]

At some point every person who loses someone to violence has to decide to live again or devote their life to death and revenge. If there are those who feel this way then maybe they are already dead.

In WWII the hundreds of millions of people who lost loved ones "got over it."

Palestinians would need to decide if they wanted to pour good blood away after spilled blood.

Again, the facts are that more terrorists are being created by Israel's excessive action.

Maybe those family member's that died in 9/11 should have just "got over it" right? :roll:

 

[bhkad]

Again, the facts are that more terrorists are being created by Israel's excessive action.

Maybe those family member's that died in 9/11 should have just "got over it" right? :roll:

The difference is that after the outcome has been decided then the people will have to decide whether they wish to carry on their revenge or not. The GWOT is ongoing as OBL is still free.

Once hamas is brought to its knees and surrenders or is destroyed then the outcome will have been decided and then people will have to decide if they want their lives to be about life or death.

 

[TheNextEra]

Once hamas is brought to its knees and surrenders or is destroyed then the outcome will have been decided and then people will have to decide if they want their lives to be about life or death.

The people have decided that Israel killing innocent civilians is uncalled for and have directed their anger towards them.

Hamas will not surrender nor will it be destroyed because each and everytime an innocent dies, their family sides with them.

You don't make allies by killing the innocent civilians and Israel will never turn the civilians away from Hamas if they continue to kill innocents in large numbers.

Israel's excessive campaign is the problem.

 

[shiznit770]

Please explain to me how diplomacy can work when Palestinian terrorist organizations like Hammas exist?

I don't need to explain to you how diplomacy works. History already shows that the present strategy does nothing to help and in fact creates these pestilent groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[shiznit770]

Shiznit770,

If the Hamas terrorist group, which rejects any kind of compromise with Israel, is significantly weakened or, better yet, destroyed, the position of Palestinian moderates would be strengthened. At a minimum, the lives of ordinary Palestinians would then have a genuine chance for improvement.

With moderates in a stronger position, then, and only then, would the chances for a diplomatic solution increase, though success still would not be assured. However, so long as Hamas remains sufficiently strong, it is in a position to thwart prospects for peace and, worse, perpetuate its radical ideology that proclaims peace with Israel an "abuse" against Islam.

The West bank and Gaza are not suddenly going to be united under a moderate Palestine authority. Look at a map for crying out loud. This region is messed up and you think its only because of a terrorist group?

 

[Truth Detector]

I don't need to explain to you how diplomacy works. History already shows that the present strategy does nothing to help and in fact creates these pestilent groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.

Once again you avoid the question so I am forced to ask you again; Please explain to me how diplomacy can work when Palestinian terrorist organizations like Hammas exist?

 

[Truth Detector]

You don't make allies by killing the innocent civilians and Israel will never turn the civilians away from Hamas if they continue to kill innocents in large numbers.

Israel's excessive campaign is the problem.

You don't make allies by ignoring the actions of terrorists who fire indiscriminately into civilians and target innocent civilians.

The allies you have by burying your head in the sand are not worthy of being allies and will just bring terrorism down on themselves by trying to appease terrorism.

Carry on. :roll:

 

[shiznit770]

Once again you avoid the question so I am forced to ask you again; Please explain to me how diplomacy can work when Palestinian terrorist organizations like Hammas exist?

Contrary to popular neo-con believe, they do bring terms to the table and will not only settle for the total destruction of Israel. Its great that you can find someone to make such boasts, but the fact is Israel cannot agree to the terms because a minority of their people have settled and refuse to relocate. Until Israel can make the concessions necessary to unite Palestine, there will be no peace.

Palestine is an impoverished land without law. Hamas is not some highly organized terrorist organization like you think. They are a bunch of teenager bullies. As soon as the non-militant people of Gaza see an opportunity for change that does not involve standing up to Hamas and Israel at the same time they will take it.

 

[Vader]

Replace Hamas and Israel and you're a terrorist!

That made no sense. ... and yet bub brown-nosed it anyway!

How funny is that?

:rofl

 

[Truth Detector]

Contrary to popular neo-con believe, they do bring terms to the table and will not only settle for the total destruction of Israel. Its great that you can find someone to make such boasts, but the fact is Israel cannot agree to the terms because a minority of their people have settled and refuse to relocate. Until Israel can make the concessions necessary to unite Palestine, there will be no peace.

Palestine is an impoverished land without law. Hamas is not some highly organized terrorist organization like you think. They are a bunch of teenager bullies. As soon as the non-militant people of Gaza see an opportunity for change that does not involve standing up to Hamas and Israel at the same time they will take it.

Contrary to popular Liberal myths, the Israeli's have removed settlements and done much more than Hammas or the Palestinians have to move towards peace. Ignoring those facts makes your argument extremely weak.

Until the various groups agree that Israel has a right to exist, there can be no compromise. Until Western Nations, Arab Nations and the UN aggressively condemn the actions of Hammas and Hammas as an organization and those groups who support terrorism and the destruction of Israel, there will be no peace.

Israel is a tiny thread of a nation who had been attacked three times in it's past with NO help from the UN or Western Nations. The notion that the burden of peace rests with Israel is absurd in the extreme and can only be argued in a vacuum lacking reality and the historic FACTS.

Carry on.

 

[Vader]

The people have decided that Israel killing innocent civilians is uncalled for and have directed their anger towards them.

Hamas will not surrender nor will it be destroyed because each and everytime an innocent dies, their family sides with them.

You don't make allies by killing the innocent civilians and Israel will never turn the civilians away from Hamas if they continue to kill innocents in large numbers.

Israel's excessive campaign is the problem.

No, Hamas terrorists launching rockets from civilian areas is the problem.

This problem is made worse by the sheer level of brainwashing occurring in Hamas controlled territory.

Hamas acutally has the idiots in Palestine blaming Israel for the death that Hamas is responsible for.

Amazing isn't it?

I would say the Palestinians have only themselves and they Hamas buddies to blame for what happened.

You sugar coating the BS doesn't make it more truthful. In the end it is still BS.

 

[shiznit770]

That made no sense. ... and yet bub brown-nosed it anyway!

How funny is that?

:rofl

I'll spell it out for you Vader.

**********DISCLAIMER***********
The following quote has been edited to explain to Vader a previously mentioned post. The underlined portions were edited by ME.

I would say Hamas is sick of Israels' bull****.

Israels' terrorist asses are about to get what they deserve.

There cannot be peace in Gaza until Israel is destroyed.

Do you see it now?

 

[shiznit770]

Contrary to popular Liberal myths, the Israeli's have removed settlements and done much more than Hammas or the Palestinians have to move towards peace. Ignoring those facts makes your argument extremely weak.

Until the various groups agree that Israel has a right to exist, there can be no compromise. Until Western Nations, Arab Nations and the UN aggressively condemn the actions of Hammas and Hammas as an organization and those groups who support terrorism and the destruction of Israel, there will be no peace.

Israel is a tiny thread of a nation who had been attacked three times in it's past with NO help from the UN or Western Nations. The notion that the burden of peace rests with Israel is absurd in the extreme and can only be argued in a vacuum lacking reality and the historic FACTS.

Carry on.

Israel has made great compromises to the West Bank and I believe we can all agree that the lack of attacks coming from that area are to be attributed to those. Gaza is a fragment of Palestine that has been isolated for way too long. Hamas or another equivalent organization will fester there until it is able to function within the larger state of Palestine.

Israel fought and won its land, it is now suffering the consequences of those occupations (both past and present). It is ridiculous to claim that Israeli did not start the conflict as the history of it dates back to Israel's creation.

 

[Vader]

I'll spell it out for you Vader.

**********DISCLAIMER***********
The following quote has been edited to explain to Vader a previously mentioned post. The underlined portions were edited by ME.


Do you see it now?

Showing support for a terrorist group? That isn't cool. You should be ashmed of yourself.

Israel didn't start the fight ... they finished it.

Making excuses for Hamas isn't going to change the fact that they are a terrorist group.

 

[kaya'08]

Sorry but it's true. More terrorists are being created by Israel's excessive actions. Your nonsense is thinking that killing innocents is the way to go. I see that you care nothing for life.

Terrorists are hardly innocent, therefore i dont see where our fault in any of this is. We're talking about killing off Hamas here, how has this led to innocent people? Innocent deaths are a result of war....its completely natural in war. Its happened in every single war thats ever commenced on our planet....you cannot recreate the nature of war to avoid a few more people hating you.

Im going to lay out the options here, on a table.
Either Hamas goes, a terrorist group currently occupying the Gaza strip, or the state of Israel dissapears. Make your choice. Because Hamas will keep on fighting until one of them are dead.

 

[shiznit770]

Showing support for a terrorist group? That isn't cool. You should be ashmed of yourself.

Israel didn't start the fight ... they finished it.

Making excuses for Hamas isn't going to change the fact that they are a terrorist group.

I don't support Hamas, I just wanted to show you how both sides disregard the fact that there are far more innocent people in the conflict than instigators. You justify the killing of people in Gaza by equating them all to Hamas just as Hamas justifies the killing of Israelis by equating them all to the IDF.