Israel is the new Nazi Germany

[bomberfox]

It means they are a people used to attack Jews by proxy. The Arab nations + Iran use the struggle of the "Palestinians" who are ethnically Arabs themselves as a token people with a "struggle" against "zionism" which they then use to justify their violence and hatred of Israel. At its core, the conflict is Arab Muslims lost some land to Jews when after the Holocaust and WWII Brittain partitioned land to be a Jewish state in their native homeland after the atrocities commited against them by the nazis. The only link Israel has to nazi Germany is the fact that its existence is necessary given the evils perpetuated against the Jewish people by the nazis who, like their current adversaries, want to wipe Jews off the map in their actual genocide.

They are not arabs actually. Lots of them were there before Israel was created. Lets not create lies about people that denies their existence.

 

[ASHES]

Calling Jews Nazi is inflammatory.

It's also claiming that what happened to Germany in WW1 was equivalent to what happened to the Jews in WW2, if you follow the analogy to it's logical conclusion. So, idiotic and untrue.

PS: I will not be responding to any screeching posts about genocide.

 

[reinaert]

It's unfortunately necessary to point out that a key component of the Nazi program was the erasure of Jews, as Jews.

To further enhance this point, neo-Nazis and skinheads, some of who exist within a chain of transmission from the original Nazis, retain this feature of planning to erase, expel or eliminate Jews as Jews.

Israel, being a Jewish state, cannot be Nazi. It will never be the "new Nazi" anything.

But, being a Jewish state, and defining that state in these ethno-religious terms, has set Israel from the beginning towards its present ethnonationalist condition, a condition further made precarious and unstable by efforts to reinforce its ethnonationalism with overt mythological and religious justification. The shorter term for this is palingenetic ultranationalism. The even shorter term for that is: fascism.

Adding in the increasingly aggressive and bloody-handed expansionism (or at times enclosure) - that is, the stealing of homes and the expulsion or killing of families, villages, tribes and finally peoples - that culminates in war crimes and at least reasonable claims of genocide, all justified in terms of safety for the core ethnic group, its ethnic continuity through time, and its primacy always over any remaining outgroups, it is or ought to be clear to all that Israel is a fascist state.

If Israel is a fascist state - and it seems undeniably so - than it does not belong to the community of republican democracies. And as with all fascist states, anywhere and at any time, it is the enemy of liberty, and must be treated accordingly, until those who lead it and those who profit from its operation are brought to justice and removed from the common good.

 

[bomberfox]

LOLOLOL. Israel is fighting like 4 or 5 wars with its neighbors.



Totally false.

How Israel teaches its children to hate – Middle East Monitor

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www.middleeastmonitor.com

That does explain a lot.

 

[bomberfox]

It's unfortunately necessary to point out that a key component of the Nazi program was the erasure of Jews, as Jews.

To further enhance this point, neo-Nazis and skinheads, some of who exist within a chain of transmission from the original Nazis, retain this feature of planning to erase, expel or eliminate Jews as Jews.

Israel, being a Jewish state, cannot be Nazi. It will never be the "new Nazi" anything.

But, being a Jewish state, and defining that state in these ethno-religious terms, has set Israel from the beginning towards its present ethnonationalist condition, a condition further made precarious and unstable by efforts to reinforce its ethnonationalism with overt mythological and religious justification. The shorter term for this is palingenetic ultranationalism. The even shorter term for that is: fascism.

Adding in the increasingly aggressive and bloody-handed expansionism (or at times enclosure) - that is, the stealing of homes and the expulsion or killing of families, villages, tribes and finally peoples - that culminates in war crimes and at least reasonable claims of genocide, all justified in terms of safety for the core ethnic group, its ethnic continuity through time, and its primacy always over any remaining outgroups, it is or ought to be clear to all that Israel is a fascist state.

If Israel is a fascist state - and it seems undeniably so - than it does not belong to the community of republican democracies. And as with all fascist states, anywhere and at any time, it is the enemy of liberty, and must be treated accordingly, until those who lead it and those who profit from its operation are brought to justice and removed from the common good.

This is a good explanation.

 

[bomberfox]

Oh give me a break. Israel has an active opposition to Netanyahu’s policies, and he faces personal legal troubles, both of which he has kept at bay by his “wag the dog” attacks. It is precisely because Israel is not akin to the Nazis that the opposition exists. I

I do believe, however, that some Israeli approaches and policies towards Palestinians sadly resemble US policies towards Native Americans in the 1800s.

Thats not the same as opposing his policies on palestine.

 

[oneworld2]

PS: I will not be responding to any screeching posts about genocide.

Just don't think you won't be remembered as a genocide denier and reminded of it when the verdict comes in

 

[oneworld2]

It's unfortunately necessary to point out that a key component of the Nazi program was the erasure of Jews, as Jews.

And the Zionist ideology has the key component of the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians as Palestinians, regardless of whether they be Muslim , Christian or atheist.

I would argue and have argued that Israel is the nearest thing to the Nazi German state we have in the world today

 

[reinaert]

And the Zionist ideology has the key component of the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians as Palestinians, regardless of whether they be Muslim , Christian or atheist.

I would argue and have argued that Israel is the nearest thing to the Nazi German state we have in the world today

I will continue to disagree because the defining feature of Nazism is a program of eliminating Jews.

There's no need to force this association with Nazism.

Israel is an ultranationalist state whose leadership and a large percent of its favored citizenry justify war crimes and the killing of innocents by (a) asserting collective guilt (b) recalling privileges and immunities for themselves that arise in a mythological past, done by heroic ancestors (c) establishing the security and prosperity of the core ethnic group in opposition to and at the expense of all outgroups.

That's just fascism. It's enough to embargo, isolate, sanction, and eventually bring its criminals to justice, all on its own.

 

[Craig234]

You would have to disagree, it's like a knee jerk.

I'm surprised by that comment. I don't think we disagree much at all, and if we did I'd expect it to be an agreeable discussion, but that comment seems to be hostile and say otherwise. Hopefully that's not what you meant.

The Nazis and the Zionists, nothing to do with Likud, are supremacists of the groups and they don't represent everyone from those groups.

You really missed the point I was making it appears. That the Nazis and Zionists - which have a lot to do with Likud, who are their leading group - are different than the groups they are from or claim to be from much more than the way that Pakistan's government is different than all Muslims. Pakistan's government doesn't seem nearly as extremist.

 

[oneworld2]

I will continue to disagree because the defining feature of Nazism is a program of eliminating Jews.

I understand and agree with that BUT the defining feature of Zionism in Palestine is and has been from the start, to ethnically cleanse/eliminate its native people, the Palestinians.

I would argue that settler colonialism itself has been defined by its genocide of many of the indigenous peoples, so why not Israel? Because they are Jewish? Does that give them special dispensation to avoid the obvious?

There's no need to force this association with Nazism.

All's I am saying is that Israel today is as near as you can get to the Nazi state in both ideological supremacist terms and aggressive expansionism/illegal occupations, etc

Israel is an ultranationalist state whose leadership and a large percent of its favored citizenry justify war crimes and the killing of innocents by (a) asserting collective guilt (b) recalling privileges and immunities for themselves that arise in a mythological past, done by heroic ancestors (c) establishing the security and prosperity of the core ethnic group in opposition to and at the expense of all outgroups.

Again the Nazi use of the mystical " Volk" etc is no different from the Israeli Zionist use of the 12 tribes etc. In fact every comment you make actually makes for a stronger case imo

That's just fascism. It's enough to embargo, isolate, sanction, and eventually bring its criminals to justice, all on its own.

The same can be said about the USA, ultranationalist, manifest destiny, aggressive military war criminals, multiple illegal attacks etc the only differences really being that the genocide has already been carried out and the borders settled, that's different from the I/P situation

 

[Craig234]

PS: I will not be responding to any screeching posts about genocide.

Now apply that comment to the Holocaust, and it's the same position you are taking. You are the one denying countless children being shot by snipers, the entire population being starved and lured to be shot, relocated to unlivable conditions with that as the goal, no medication, on and on, and calling the truth about it "screeching". Your position lacks morality, as an understatement.

 

[oneworld2]

I'm surprised by that comment. I don't think we disagree much at all, and if we did I'd expect it to be an agreeable discussion, but that comment seems to be hostile and say otherwise. Hopefully that's not what you meant.

Maybe I am just losing patience with people of the Left who have historically always hamstrung themselves by factionalizing themselves on the slightest of differences.

We do agree on a lot but the distinction you are making is inaccurate imo seeing as the Israeli Zionist has always shit on the Palestinians and to try to make this about Likud is a denial of that, a deflection from it

You really missed the point I was making it appears. That the Nazis and Zionists - which have a lot to do with Likud, who are their leading group - are different than the groups they are from or claim to be from than the way that Pakistan's government is different than all Muslims. Pakistan's government doesn't seem nearly as extremist.

I chose Pakistan at random, I could have said Indonesia or Egypt.

I could have said Christians and cited Brazil or Poland because the point is that no country represents any other country when it comes to shared religion.

To pick on this seems petty to me because you agree with the basic premise anyhow.

I won't respond in future and then there won't be these ongoing imo meaningless exchanges

 

[oneworld2]

The left loses any credibility when they use terms like NAZI. Of course, virtue signalers will chime in.

Nice to see you back after the lies you told about Obama and Carter

 

[Craig234]

Maybe I am just losing patience with people of the Left who have historically always hamstrung themselves by factionalizing themselves on the slightest of differences.

Yes, the comment sounded like you are frustrated with other people, and that boiled over - in what I could call a 'knee jerk reaction' to that post, unfortunately. Discussing a small analogy is not 'hamstringing' anything or 'factionalizing ourselves', any more than correcting a date you mentioned of 2015 to 2018 has any such hamstringing or factionalizing effect.

We do agree on a lot but the distinction you are making is inaccurate imo seeing as the Israeli Zionist has always shit on the Palestinians and to try to make this about Likud is a denial of that, a deflection from it

I'm more concerned with not being able to discuss it in a very friendly manner instead of seeing any such discussion as more 'factionalizing' than it is; I don't know why you are opposed to referring to Likud when talking about Zionists, but fine, it's the same point either way - that Pakistan's government doesn't differ from all Muslims as much as Zionists differ from all Jews.

I chose Pakistan at random, I could have said Indonesia or Egypt.

Right. And that's why it's not the best analogy. Because a government 'at random' doesn't represent a broader ethnic group, but the differences aren't nearly as extreme as in the case of the rogue state. The rogue state exploits Jews using them as human shields to use sympathy for their history as cover for their atrocities. Governments at random do not do the same.

Millions of Jews globally oppose the rogue state, as you know, and form groups like "Not in our name", and see the rogue state as the leading cause in the world for anti-Semitism. None of that is the case for other governments 'at random' for their groups.

I could have said Christians and cited Brazil or Poland because the point is that no country represents any other country when it comes to shared religion.

Yes, and that's why the first thing I said was to say that point is right - but then to point out that the case of the rogue state is far more extreme than the others, rather than being the same and comparable.

To pick on this seems petty to me because you agree with the basic premise anyhow.

It's not an area of major disagreement - your response is what suggested it was - but I think it's worth pointing out the extreme nature of the rogue state government - or as you refer to them as the Zionists - as being far more extreme than other government, and not normalizing them to suggest they're comparable to random goverments.

I won't respond in future and then there won't be these ongoing imo meaningless exchanges

As I said, I was surprised at the level of hostility that was not at all justified. You do seem to be lashing out at people you have no reason to over some emotion about some other people.

But discussing it you don't seem to be recognizing that and continuing to lash out. That's disappointing, but I'll try to be understanding, you put up with a huge amount of crap here.

 

[Fledermaus]

Just don't think you won't be remembered as a genocide denier and reminded of it when the verdict comes in

People disagree with YOUR interpretation of what genocide is.

That isn't "genocide denier" activity. It is Oneworld2 disagreement.

 

[Fledermaus]

I understand and agree with that BUT the defining feature of Zionism in Palestine is and has been from the start, to ethnically cleanse/eliminate its native people, the Palestinians.

I would argue that settler colonialism itself has been defined by its genocide of many of the indigenous peoples, so why not Israel? Because they are Jewish? Does that give them special dispensation to avoid the obvious?


All's I am saying is that Israel today is as near as you can get to the Nazi state in both ideological supremacist terms and aggressive expansionism/illegal occupations, etc


Again the Nazi use of the mystical " Volk" etc is no different from the Israeli Zionist use of the 12 tribes etc. In fact every comment you make actually makes for a stronger case imo


The same can be said about the USA, ultranationalist, manifest destiny, aggressive military war criminals, multiple illegal attacks etc the only differences really being that the genocide has already been carried out and the borders settled, that's different from the I/P situation

"I understand and agree with that BUT the defining feature of Zionism in Palestine is and has been from the start, to ethnically cleanse/eliminate its native people, the Palestinians."

Interesting.

So Israel is 100% Palestinian free.....

Right?

They've had decades to get that done.

 

[Nickyjo]

Thats not the same as opposing his policies on palestine.

I don’t understand your comment. What’s not the same as opposing his policies on Palestine.

 

[bomberfox]

I don’t understand your comment. What’s not the same as opposing his policies on Palestine.

Opposing netanyahu is done for various reasons i dont see much protests in israel over what he is doing to palestinians.

 

[Nickyjo]

Opposing netanyahu is done for various reasons i dont see much protests in israel over what he is doing to palestinians.

Me neither, but I assume it is there if not reported much in the US. I believe that many Israelis feel as I do that Netanyahu’s policies are creating more terrorists than he can kill. His support of settlers that kick Palestinians out of homes they’ve occupied for years is an example.