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Islamophobia The New Anti-semitism?

Makhno

Banned
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Location
Wales
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Political Leaning
Very Liberal
"Britain an Islamic country"

Daily Express: The World's Greatest Newspaper


Worrying to think that reports like this about the Muslim community draws so many parallels to the widespread anti-semitism that was prevalent in Nazi Germany upto the holocaust. It would seem Muslims are becoming the modern day scapegoats.

So is this any different than saying the Jews are secretly in control of the World, or some other nonsense?
 

The call for Sharia law by some Muslims in Britain is a fact. The Islamic terrorist bombings and sucide attacks for Islamic cause in many parts of the world are facts. The Islamic terrorist networks are bent on causing upmost terror and severe harm to innocent civilians in mass throughout the world, and this is a fact. The radical Islamic terrorist cells are scattered far and wide in many parts of the world and this is a fact. The Islamic extremists' call for jihad against the West and the infidels of the world is a fact.

There was no similar religious call of any kind by the Jews during Nazi Germany. The Jews were slaughtered by the Nazi for their economic success. They were law abiding citizens going about their own business but was slaughtered for simply being Jews. There never was and never is a terroristic attacks purposely targeting innocent civilians around the globe caused by the Jews. There never was a call for the equivalent of jihad by the Jews. To say the Jews are secretly in control of the world is just a myth, and not a fact.

You seems unable to discern facts from fictions. Therefore, your attempt at drawing parallel between the Muslims and the Jews is based on myth and not on fact.
 
BTW, Mr. Arafat, I thought you were long dead. Anyway, please give your pioneering spirit in Islamic terrorism a RIP, will ya?
 

That's not what I said. There are a million muslims in Britain, a country with a population of 60 million people. The fact that a minority of British muslism are calling for an Islamic state in Britain is irrelevant. So, when taking into account that Muslism are a minority, stories like this are indeed as abusurd as the beleif that Jews are in control of the World etc.
 
But you generalized local incidents into something else that involved the Jews in Nazi Germany.

Local incidents like those vandalism were events that either ocurred or did not ocurr. If the event did ocurr, the reports merely reported what the people said about the incidents. It could be true, or it could be speculation. But the reporters' job was to report the events and documented what the people there said. Meanwhile, I suppose investigation by the appropriate authority into the incidents was carried out as reported. If it turned out to be true that Muslims were involved in the vandalism, then the events related on by-standers were verified. If not it is condemned as unfounded rumors.

Also, the public concern over encroaching elements of sharia law into Britain's Muslim society is a legetimate concern. People have the right to voice concern and the papers certainly have the right to address the issue.

So, what's the big deal? Do you prefer they just suppress the news or public concern relating to Muslims if they occurred?
 
Jews are in control of much of the wealth in the world, but so what? They're not blowing up trade towers nor are they threatening to annihilate huge populations simply because of varied beliefs.
Sure Israel has suppressed much of the palestinian populations, however hamas is a terrorist group that is wanting nothing better than the overthrowing of the democratically elected Lebanon government and side with Syria and Iran whom also openly call for the annihilation and destruction of all Jews - simply because they are Jews.
Neither are the Jews today running around like mad men performing primitive public beheadings or justifying the rape of women because they are "uncovered".
The fact of the matter is that though generalizations of ppls is unjustified towards individuals, it's not unjustified when it is a reality.
When I say that Blacks in this country have a high crime rate I'm not going to be walking around asking to be robbed if I were in a certain bad neighborhood of the cities. But then nor am I going to assume that the person walking down the street must be a criminal simply because s/he's black, however I am going to keep my alarm up. That's not anti-black or prejudice that's the realities.
There are more Islamic terrorists than there are of any other religion or culture. Admitingly they are a loud minority but they are far from irrelevant.
The fact that many Muslims support to some extent of these radicals cause does not benefit the greater population of good decent Muslim worshipers.
 
40% of British Muslims support the institutionalization of sharia law.

68% support the arrest and prosecution of anybody deemed to have insulted Islam.

45% say 911 was a conspiracy between the U.S.and Israel

25% support the London Bombings


Somebody who takes his screen name from a known terrorist thinks the reporting of the truth constitutes a program of bias against Muslims.

take it with a grain of salt.
 
Arafat said:
Worrying to think that reports like this about the Muslim community draws so many parallels to the widespread anti-semitism that was prevalent in Nazi Germany upto the holocaust. It would seem Muslims are becoming the modern day scapegoats.
Click to expand...
The answers in this thread seem to support your theory so far, even though they are not coming from the UK. No one said, Islamophobia is a specific British problem. We have this problem, too, and obviously it exists in other continents.

Arafat said:
So is this any different than saying the Jews are secretly in control of the World, or some other nonsense?
Click to expand...
The motivation of the people, who spread this kind of ideas, is probably the same in many cases. Some of these people, Gardener for instance, even use the original vocabulary sometimes, this is kinda traitorous then, you quickly realize, where their mindset originates from.
 
blastula said:
Also, the public concern over encroaching elements of sharia law into Britain's Muslim society is a legetimate concern. People have the right to voice concern and the papers certainly have the right to address the issue.
Click to expand...

The original article is talking about a developed independent Islamic court system. That's not what's happening. What's happening is Islamic communities are appointing individual arbiters to settle civil disputes on promise not to go through mainstream civil processes.
 
I know what you are attempting to say, but there is no comparisons between people's sentiments towards Islamists and people's sentiments towards Jews. The Jew simply exists and has spent a history being the scapegoat for all woes while the other has gone through great lengths to make the world cringe.

If moderate (or extremely liberal) Muslims are worried about the stigma that is becoming more widespread, then maybe the Moderate (or extremely liberal) Muslim should stand up against those that pervert and wreck their religion. Is it not the behavior of Muslims that demand that the west refrain from their freedoms of speech over a cartoon? Is it not the behavior of Muslims that demand a military response to monstrous attacks upon civilian cities? Is it not Muslims that teach their children to trample on American and Israeli flags in elementary schools? Is it not Muslims that line the streets in cheers whenever a "martyr" destroys himself and what ever civilians that are unlucky enough to have been in the vicinity.

What you are mostly seeing is the European response towards Muslims not the American, despite what Volker implies. The problems in Europe, is that some countries simply don't want immigrants in any fashion on their soil. In Germany, we see the ever present racism towards Jews merely being extended (and to some degree increased) towards Turkish Muslims. In France, we see the ever snubbing of all things minority. Even the great powers of the EU have chosen more than once to deny Turkish Muslims their opportunity to contribute. However, this doesn't excuse or exhonerate the responsibilities of the Muslim population to assimilate into their host nations. Muslims are very much strict adherents to the extended family - tribe, clan, sect. They have not grasped what all religious people in history have had to grasp. The Christian world has acknowledged that with scientific discovery and social needs, religion must change. Islam refuses to change and this is why we see so much seperation between Muslims and the rest of the world.

Islamophobia is not the new anti-Semitism. Islamophobia is a monster being created by Islamic Radicals and the moderate voices that remain silent in encouragement. We are seeing it in every Muslim country in the Middle East today. Using Lebanon as one example, the country is torn between Hezbollah and their Radicals and the moderates who want democracy. Hezbollah and the religiouos terrorist cheerleaders are willing to slaughter for their lifestyle. What are the Moderates prepared to do? What have Muslim moderates throughout the region ever done for themselves except be comfortable victims for their zealots?

My point is that the problems of Islam is a Muslim one. Though, fundamentals will go to gory extremes to force blame upon non-believers and backslidden Muslims, the west is merely in react mode to what Muslims are doing to themselves.
 
Depending on what kind of civil disputes. Like women not dressed appropriately and thus offending their Muslim men? Or leaving Islam? Or death sentence for bad speech against the prophet?
 
Last time I checked the Jews didn't fly planes into buildings during Nazi Germany, nor were they running around preaching death to the non-jew,nor were they running around blowing of synagogues of different sets of Judaism,nor were they threatening the lives of anyone for drawing cartoons,nor were they sending suicide bombers to blow up innocent people on buses and market places and nor were they threatening to kill anyone for desecrating a Jewish bible.I would have to say the fears about Muslims is legitimate considering the behavior of Muslims in other countries and the fact that hardly any Muslim condemn the actions of those nut jobs Muslims that are causing trouble in other countries.
 

Well I am one of those Islamophobes.....

I fear a religon that it prophet was a pedophile. I fear a religion where its prophet was a war mongeror, that killed, lied, had slaves.

I fear a religion that enslaves women, and defends its bogus claims of gender equality by suggesting that women are equal by becoming moving drapes. I fear a religion that represents the very antithesis of everything that I believe in. I.e free secular democratic societies based on reason and scientific knowledge.

I fear the fact that Britain, France, and Germany fail to see that Attaturk had to be so militant in the defence of secularism because Islam is inherently militant.

Islam is not the religion of peace, it is a death cult. It doesn't even compare to Juddaism or Christianity. Sure both of those theologies have very violent passages, but they don't have a liar, a pedophile, an anti-semit as an ideal person.

Stop apologising and accept that the reason that human rights are attrocious in the KSA, Palestine Territories, Iran, Egypt, etc, because of Islam. Period. Sharia law is barbaric, sexist and inhumane.

As an atheist you may wonder why I don't rant on about Christianity or or Judaism, or Hinduism. Well the simply reality is that in relative threats Islam is the greatest. If muslim-Brits keep having more children, than non-muslim Brits it is very likely that Sharia law could come to parts of the UK. Especially since the UK does not have a specifically secular legal system.

Lastly muslims are not scapegoats. What people like me fear is the values that their religion represents. The religious conservatism that is a direct threat to the liberalism of the west.

It is time for the apologetic left to stop acting like dhimmis and defend secularist, and basic human rights. Something that many muslim nation fail to even acknowledge. Refer to the UN declaration of human rights.

Kafir atheist and proud.
 
Here is one of the millions of reason why we infidels should be islamophobes:

FOXNews.com - 1 Killed, 5 Wounded in Seattle Jewish Center Shooting - Crime | Murder | Illegal Drugs | Missing Kids | Illegal Aliens

You see, if a muslim is angry at anything, somebody else unrelated to the thing of his ire get the hell. Sadly, a muslim doesn't have to have a good reason for getting angry. He simply can be angry at any time at any thing. And sadly, you never know who that time bomb will going to be. For this fanatic, he turned out to be a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent.

Here's another one phobia for the religion of peace:

The Jawa Report: American Among Terror Plotters in Egypt

Here's one where a mere suspicious is enough justification for muslims to kill another muslims, even children, it doesn't matter to these beast whop they kill go figure:
Five more dead as some schools reopen in Thai south - Yahoo! News

More here, in your face as you look on:
Policeman, village guard killed in Thailand's restive south - Asia - Pacific - International Herald Tribune

And more:
Gunman Attacks U.S. Embassy In Yemen, Security Guards Shoot, Arrest Suspect In Incident Outside Diplomatic Compound - CBS News
Gunman Attacks U.S. Embassy In Yemen
Security Guards Shoot, Arrest Suspect In Incident Outside Diplomatic Compound

SAN'A, Yemen, Dec. 5, 2006
Click to expand...

And more.... too many to list here for December alone, let alone November, October, Septempber, etc...

TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World
 
If you click on the last link I gave above, you'll find a lengthy list of crimes against humanity committed by fanatic muslims in the name of islam. The list goes on and on seemingly forever if you scroll down to the bottom. And that's just for from recent events in this month up to the month of June. At the bottom, it asked:

Still think it has nothing to do with Islam?

Of course we know, the muslims and their sympathisers will still think it has nothing to do with islam.

And if you click on the next half of 2006, you will find another endless list of crimes committed against humanity by the fanatic muslims in the name of islam. And if you're still not convinced, then click on the list for 2005, 2004, up to 9/11 2001.

And of course, we know there will be those muslims and islam sympathisers who will always stick to their conviction that it has nothing to do with islam and will accuse us of being islamophobic. I'd rather be islamophobe and alive then be dead by the hands of islamomaniacs.
 
They made an interesting study in the mid ninetees about dislike against Jewish people and dislike against Turkish people in the German youth. They did linear analysis and the results were not so surprising, simply said, people who don't like Jews usually don't like Turks and vice versa. It is in the net, but in German language only.

It would be interesting to find out about anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, too.

Another poll which would be interesting would be about dislike of Jewish people and dislike of Iranian people. The right wing idiots seem to be in a dilemma here which is like Iranians are great people as long as they don't live in Germany.
 


So what you're saying, is that we should treat all Muslims as suspected terrorists?
 
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It's very true. It's also true that anti-Semitism and dislikes for Muslims goes far beyond Germany and certainly can be found in America, but the differences is how the German society has allowed these sentiments to damage their social fabrics.

Volker said:
Another poll which would be interesting would be about dislike of Jewish people and dislike of Iranian people. The right wing idiots seem to be in a dilemma here which is like Iranians are great people as long as they don't live in Germany.
Click to expand...

In America, people generaly think that Iranians are a great threat. However, they are merley grasping at current events and headlines. The threat in Iran is the Radical right that holds the noose on the vast majority of Iranians who are disenchanted with their old bitter mullahs. Were it not for them, the population would have let go of their hate and blame a long time ago. One of the many unfortunate twists in the Middle East is how close Iranians were becoming to western populations in terms of certain interests. They are certainly amongst the most educated in the region and they are far more nationalistic than the "religious" indoctrinated Arabs to their west.

It's of special interest to note that Iranians are Shi'ite and not Sunni. For a perspective......

- The majority polutations in Lebanon, Iraq, and Iran are Shi'ite.

- The majority populations in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan are Sunni.

Lebanon is struggling to maintain their new democracy. Iraq is trying to maintain their new democracy despite the rebellious actions of Sunni fighters and foriegn Sunni terrorists. And Iran (without Ahmenadejad) was on it's way to becoming what we want in the Middle East. The spread of the Islamic fundamentalism that so damages this regional civilization and so threatens the western world come from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. It's them that preach to their oppressed masses that the west, especially America, is to blame for all their self-prescribed woes. Oddly enough, we call them our "friends" as we chase down and fight their product.

Crazy world.
 
GySgt said:
It's very true. It's also true that anti-Semitism and dislikes for Muslims goes far beyond Germany and certainly can be found in America, but the differences is how the German society has allowed these sentiments to damage their social fabrics.
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These damages get more visible these days. Condescending remarks about foreigners in public have been considered a sign of intolerance and poor education not long ago, they have become kinda presentable meanwhile in wide parts of the society.

GySgt said:
They are certainly amongst the most educated in the region and they are far more nationalistic than the "religious" indoctrinated Arabs to their west.
Click to expand...
There is a sentiment to not become pushed around by other countries.

An unstable Pakistan could have a lot of consequences.
 
Volker said:
There is a sentiment to not become pushed around by other countries.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's very dangerous when stubborn nations stand toe to toe.


Volker said:
An unstable Pakistan could have a lot of consequences.
Click to expand...

Which is why today's situation in Pakistan, where a military controlled government maintains the democracy, is better then the possible alternative. Of course, if things go south in Pakistan, American will be blamed for "supporting" the existing government over the Radical sentiments that want control.
 
Makhno said:
So what you're saying, is that we should treat all Muslims as suspected terrorists?
Click to expand...

I am saying it is false to compare the Jews in Nazi Germany to the Muslims of today.I am also saying only *****s care about political correctness and that if we see something suspicious we should speak up and that it is better to error on the side of caution.
 
Makhno said:
Oh and btw here's an interesting one from The Sun:


icBerkshire - 'No religion was labelled' responsible for vandalism

The Sun Online - News: Brave heroes hounded out


Seems like the media that has a hard time discerning facts from fiction. :roll:
Click to expand...

LOL ah the Sun newspaper, or the Scum as I like to call it.

There is no doubt a fear and a hatred that is grown in a small member of the population since 9/11 against Muslims. Before 9/11 I cannot remember anything anti-Islamic spoken by our press (even though there were Islamic fundy attacks). The right wing media in the country of course try and spread the fear of Islam as a whole, that old Muhammed who runs a corner candy shop could be a suicide bomber. The Sun does this spectacularly.
I personally think that Islamophobia is the fault of the media more than anything. Blair's government also loves to pump us full of fear. There has always been Muslims in Britain for decades and although we have had incidents (the Iranian Embassy), the Muslim population as a whole were not attacked then as they are now.

I can see what your trying to say when you compare it to the anti-semitism in Nazi Germany (early-1930's), but I don't think I agree, not yet anyway - who knows what the future may bring. When we start considering making Islamic people wear armbands of the creasent moon, then I will be really worried.

The Jewish people didn't deserve the treatment they had pre war or during the war. Does the Islamic people deserve alienation or verbal attacks on their culture?? Do they deserve it with the actions of a fraction of their population?? Personally I don't think so.
 


You seemed to have forgotten the whole Salmon Rushdie affair. Remember what so British Muslims where saying then? :doh
 
In any country where Muslims are permitted to settle, the demographics will always be in their favour.
Simply put they beget larger families than do those of other religions.
So folks you best get used to Islam as it will in the future be the majority religion and along with that inevitably there will be Sharia Law.
 
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