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Is USA becoming an oppressive republic?

Also, hasn't the politics of this nation historically been dominated by educated, privileged (white) men? I think so, it's nothing new.
 
5 to 1 on the Patriot act vote in 2011..............a majority of Democrats voted against the Iraq war vs nearly every single Republican that voted for it, just to name a couple of issues.


That seems to me to be a very significant distinction.

You don't know how badly I want the Dems to be the good guys. That's because we're just names on a computer screen and don't really know each other.

I love the spirit and courage of Alan Grayson, for example, and Russ Feingold, but they are sort of the exception to the rule, with all due respect. The Democrats have a way of shooting themselves in the foot, and they have condoned torture and violations of the spirit and letter of the US Constitution. They have not made any principled stand on anything that I can see. I would love to see the Democrat Party suddenly become a party of principle and action, but I'm not holding my breath.

I know the political process is slow indeed, and I'm glad to see the voting record against the Unpatriot Act that you show here.

But I'm not convinced there is any substantive difference between the average Dem and the average Repub.
 
You don't know how badly I want the Dems to be the good guys. That's because we're just names on a computer screen and don't really know each other.

I love the spirit and courage of Alan Grayson, for example, and Russ Feingold, but they are sort of the exception to the rule, with all due respect. The Democrats have a way of shooting themselves in the foot, and they have condoned torture and violations of the spirit and letter of the US Constitution. They have not made any principled stand on anything that I can see. I would love to see the Democrat Party suddenly become a party of principle and action, but I'm not holding my breath.

I know the political process is slow indeed, and I'm glad to see the voting record against the Unpatriot Act that you show here.

But I'm not convinced there is any substantive difference between the average Dem and the average Repub.

I agree. It seems that the vast majority of our congress critters are simply playing the campaign funding/re-election game full time and legislating part time, but always seem beholden to "special" interests and making deals as to not make too many "incorrect" (unpopular?) votes on the floor. Bills are called one thing yet contain something else as a "rider" - e.g. the "farm" bill is now 80% SNAP, income redistribution in the form of individual citizen grants based on "need". The "Sandy storm relief" bill has all sorts of other "goodies" in it. And "deficit reduction" compromises now actually increase the defict. ;)
 
side note for you: in 1905.....that was know as the progressive era.
LOL!!! You'd better go back and review your judicial history. Any idea what the Lochner Era was? How and when it ended? How it is regarded today? And in any case, the opinion cited from 1905 is in the main extracted from Ex Parte Yarbrough, decided in 1884. Any clue as to what era that was?

It doesn't actually matter of course, as the contrary theory you so comically espouse has not held sway during ANY era in the history of this republic, nor will it in any future one.
 
You don't know how badly I want the Dems to be the good guys. That's because we're just names on a computer screen and don't really know each other.

I love the spirit and courage of Alan Grayson, for example, and Russ Feingold, but they are sort of the exception to the rule, with all due respect. The Democrats have a way of shooting themselves in the foot, and they have condoned torture and violations of the spirit and letter of the US Constitution. They have not made any principled stand on anything that I can see. I would love to see the Democrat Party suddenly become a party of principle and action, but I'm not holding my breath.

I know the political process is slow indeed, and I'm glad to see the voting record against the Unpatriot Act that you show here.

But I'm not convinced there is any substantive difference between the average Dem and the average Repub.


I wished we lived in a perfect world too. But, I am a pragmatist, so I accept there is no perfect party that will always govern the way I would myself. I wish the Democrats were more liberal, but they are closer to my position on most issues than any other viable political party. I just do what I can to get more liberals elected in the Democrat party to join the liberals that voted against the Patriot Act and the Iraq war.
 
LOL!!! You'd better go back and review your judicial history. Any idea what the Lochner Era was? How and when it ended? How it is regarded today? And in any case, the opinion cited from 1905 is in the main extracted from Ex Parte Yarbrough, decided in 1884. Any clue as to what era that was?

It doesn't actually matter of course, as the contrary theory you so comically espouse has not held sway during ANY era in the history of this republic, nor will it in any future one.


the progressive came into being around 1890, and grew from there, i was not talking about the USSC, i was talking THE PROGRESSIVE ERA.....TR, AND WILSON 1901- 1920

and to refresh your memory again, Madison was in Philadelphia 3 months ahead of the convention, which you failed to admit i was right, you were wrong, but yet you keeping making statements and saying i am wrong........about many things, which you yourself look foolish.

The Progressive Era was a period of social activism and political reform in the United States that flourished from the 1890s to the 1920s.
 
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"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."

James Madison (1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President

referring to a bill to subsidize cod fisherman introduced in the first year of the new Congress
 
the progressive came into being around 1890, and grew from there, i was not talking about the USSC, i was talking THE PROGRESSIVE ERA.....TR, AND WILSON 1901- 1920
As your post intended to call into question in some way the 1905 opinion in South Carolina v US, it seems somewhat odd that you would now claim not to have been talking about the USSC. You may as well have reported baseball scores of the day in that event.

and to refresh your memory again, Madison was in Philadelphia 3 months ahead of the convention, which you failed to admit i was right, you were wrong, but yet you keeping making statements and saying i am wrong........about many things, which you yourself look foolish.
Your far beyond creative accounts and interpretations of the history of the period are totally worthless. As Congress was meeting if Federal Hall in February of 1787, Madison was in fact in New York City at that time. He was one who cast a vote on February 21 to give Congressional sanction to the proposed Philadelphia convention. Madison arrived in Philadelphia for that convention on Saturday, May 5, 1787. As had four other delegates, he had taken a room at Mary House's Boarding House at 5th & Market Streets. The rest of the Virginia delegation arrived shortly after Madison, with Washington and Madison using the better than two weeks that transpired before the convention finally opened to flesh out details of the Virginia Plan and discuss the tone to be set in the debates.

The Progressive Era was a period of social activism and political reform in the United States that flourished from the 1890s to the 1920s.
You copied and pasted that very well, leaving it totally unsullied by any of your original embellishments.
 
As your post intended to call into question in some way the 1905 opinion in South Carolina v US, it seems somewhat odd that you would now claim not to have been talking about the USSC. You may as well have reported baseball scores of the day in that event.


Your far beyond creative accounts and interpretations of the history of the period are totally worthless. As Congress was meeting if Federal Hall in February of 1787, Madison was in fact in New York City at that time. He was one who cast a vote on February 21 to give Congressional sanction to the proposed Philadelphia convention. Madison arrived in Philadelphia for that convention on Saturday, May 5, 1787. As had four other delegates, he had taken a room at Mary House's Boarding House at 5th & Market Streets. The rest of the Virginia delegation arrived shortly after Madison, with Washington and Madison using the better than two weeks that transpired before the convention finally opened to flesh out details of the Virginia Plan and discuss the tone to be set in the debates.


You copied and pasted that very well, leaving it totally unsullied by any of your original embellishments.



did you not see ...side note....the progressive era.....1901 to 1920



Governor Robert F. McDonnell: Our Commonwealth


james Madison Appreciation Day

WHEREAS, James Madison, Jr. was born on March 16, 1751 at Port Conway in King George County, Virginia, to James Madison, Sr. and Eleanor Conway at the Conway home. Both he and his father were named for his maternal Great, Grandfather, Col. James Taylor II, who provided land for his daughter, Frances Taylor, upon her marriage to Ambrose Madison, in Orange County. Col. Taylor was the Surveyor General for the Virginia Royal Colony under Lt. Alexander Spotswood, and became the first settler of Orange, County; and

WHEREAS, he was brought up in and remained a life time resident of Orange County first at “Mount Pleasant,” later to become known as “Montpelier”, home of his parents and grandparents, where he was home schooled by his mother and grandmother and later, under the influence of his tutor, attended King’s College of New Jersey, now Princeton University, and upon graduation became the first graduate student studying Hebrew, Latin and Religion for an additional year with The Reverend John Witherspoon and, thereafter, by personal lineage, legacy and experience, remained actively committed throughout his life to freedom of faith and conscience for all people; and

WHEREAS, he was a devoted student of history, government, and well read in the law, he participated in the framing of Virginia’s original Bill of Religious Freedom and it’s Constitution in 1776, served with distinction in the Continental Congress, and was a leader in the Virginia General Assembly; and





WHEREAS, the Constitution of the United States, first adopted in 1787, and designed under the guidance of the 36 year old Madison, ---->the first to arrive in Philadelphia three months before the Convention began, bearing a blue print for the new Constitution, he thereafter, took an emphatic leadership role among the delegates in the debates and made detailed notes of the proceedings; and





WHEREAS, he later made a major contribution to the ratification process of the United States Constitution by authoring the Federalist Papers with Alexander Hamilton and John Jay; and

WHEREAS, in the United States Congress, he helped to frame the “Bill of Rights” in 1789 protecting and guaranteeing the rights and freedoms of individual citizens; and

WHEREAS, he served the Commonwealth and his nation as consultant and advisor to President George Washington, as Secretary of State in Thomas Jefferson’s Cabinet, was twice elected to serve as President of the United States and successfully prosecuted the War of 1812, now commonly recognized as “America’s Second War of Independence;” and

WHEREAS, in 1829 and 1830, he served in the Convention that revised Virginia’s Constitution, and in retirement years at “Montpelier”, with his beloved wife, Dolley Payne Todd Madison, he spoke out against the radical States Rights influences that threatened to shatter the Federal Union in the 1830’s, and in a note opened after his death in 1836 said, “The advice nearest to my heart and deepest in my convictions is that the Union of the States be cherished and perpetuated” and

WHEREAS, his contributions acknowledged by his contemporary compatriots, and a grateful nation since, have named him to be “The Father of the Constitution,” which remains the supreme law of our land, and the oldest and today, with only 4,440 words, the shortest Constitution of any government in the world;

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Robert F. McDonnell, do hereby recognize March 16, 2011 as JAMES MADISON APPRECIATION DAY in our COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA, and I call this observance to the attention of all our citizens.


yes i copied and pasted because it supports what i said.
 
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yes i copied and pasted because it supports what i said.
One fool citing another? McDonnell is such an expert that he had to be reminded that there was once slavery in Virginia. But why don't we simply ask James Madison to tell us where he was in February 1787...

James Madsion letter to Edmund Pendleton, February 24 1787.

Or we could consult the Debates of the Confedration Congress for February 21, 1787...

The delegates from New York, in consequence of their instructions, made the motion on the Journal to postpone the Report of the Committee, in order to substitute their own proposition. Some who voted against it considered it as liable to the objection above mentioned. Some who voted for it, particularly Mr. Madison, considered it susceptible of amendment when brought before Congress and that if Congress interposed in the matter at all, it would be well for them to do it at the instance of a State rather than spontaneously.

Gee, what was Mr. Madison doing there when he was supposed to be in Philadelphia already for a convention the Congress was just then in the process of giving its sanction to?
 
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One fool citing another? McDonnell is such an expert that he had to be reminded that there was once slavery in Virginia. But why don't we simply ask James Madison to tell us where he was in February 1787...

James Madsion letter to Edmund Pendleton, February 24 1787.

Or we could consult the Debates of the Confedration Congress for February 21, 1787...

The delegates from New York, in consequnce of their instructions, made the motion on the Journal to postpone the Report of the Committee, in order to sustitute their own proposition. Some who voted against it considered it as liablke to the objection above mentioned. Some who voted for it, particularly Mr. Madison, considered it susceptible of amendment when brought bewfore Congress and that if Congress interposed in the matter at all, it would be well for them to do it at the instance of a State rather than spontaneously.

Gee, what was Mr. Madison doing there when he was supposed to be in Philadelphia already for a convention the Congress was just then in the process of giving its sanction to?



McDonnell is such an expert that he had to be reminded that there was once slavery in Virginia????????????????????............has noting too do with anything!


so IN YOUR MIND because hes a republican, its not valid?
 
McDonnell is such an expert that he had to be reminded that there was once slavery in Virginia????????????????????............has noting too do with anything! so IN YOUR MIND because hes a republican, its not valid?
It's just the irony of your citing a demonstrated historical clown as your source that made me laugh. Meanwhile the unimpeachable sources that conclusively disprove your hairbrained theories abound.
 
It's just the irony of your citing a demonstrated historical clown as your source that made me laugh. Meanwhile the unimpeachable sources that conclusively disprove your hairbrained theories abound.

in reality your making me laugh, because you would use the division of parties in this case....very sad on your part.
 
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