Is the "War on Terror" real?

[Jerry]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

Is the "War on Terror" a real and viable action?

By this, I mean is Radical Islam actually conducting a War against Western Societies, mainly the United States? They have said that tehy are, but do you believe it? Yes or NO and WHY...

Go ahead...

By no means do I have ground to call anyone on grammar, spelling or punctuation, but I must say that I do at least run every line of my posts through Microsoft Word and give my best effort to avoid things like misspelling "terror" as t-e-a-r before I submit.

I often wonder if others put in similar effort, or if my misspellings are singled out only because of my political lean.

Yes, the war on terror is real. We are actually in Afghanistan. We are actually in Iraq. Yes we are in Iraq primarily because of oil, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all, because oil is the key to sinking Iran's economy, destroying Iran while not firing a single shot.

 

[Flea]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

Originally Posted by BodiSatva
Is the "War on Terror" a real and viable action?

By this, I mean is Radical Islam actually conducting a War against Western Societies, mainly the United States? They have said that tehy are, but do you believe it? Yes or NO and WHY...

Go ahead...

Originally Posted by Jerry
By no means do I have ground to call anyone on grammar, spelling or punctuation, but I must say that I do at least run every line of my posts through Microsoft Word and give my best effort to avoid things like misspelling "terror" as t-e-a-r before I submit.

I often wonder if others put in similar effort, or if my misspellings are singled out only because of my political lean.

I am straining to see what the heck you are talking about. Do you mean "tehy" that is obviously "they"? Terror is spelled correctly! Arrgghhhh! I am LOST!

 

[Iriemon]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

What we need to do is question why our defense budget is over $500 million next fiscal year. That's 44 times more than the next country in line (China). Does anyone know that this war in Iraq is costing every single household in the United States $18,000.00 dollars a year.

As clarification, according to the CBO, the defense budget in FY06 was $520 billion. That is a 75% increase in military spending since 2000. Yet I don't believe the over troop size has been increased at all. This figure does not count the costs of the war in Iraq, which approaches $100 billion a year, nor foreign aid to Iraq.

$600 billion a year divied by 100 million households would equate to approximately $6,000 per household per year for all military spending.

 

[Kelzie]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

The war on terror is a bunch of bullshit! I've said it many times, you cannot have a war against an ideology. There is no tangible enemy and no way to predict an ending. We are now in a perpetual state of war with no end in sight. And because of this, the government is taking away our rights, playing the god-damn fear card everytime they want un-Constitutional legislation passed (ie, MCA, Patriot Act, etc.) that is just accepted by the many chicken-littles of this country because they think there's a terrorist on every street corner.

This is the same lame rap they [the government] used in the War on Drugs, War on Crime and War on Whatever. And the same organizations that fought and lost those wars, are fighting this one too! I don't buy the rap. You know what the War on Terror means to me? If I see UBL in my neighborhood, I notify the AHJ. And that's all it means to me. If I see a crime, I report it. That's it.

What we need to do is question why our defense budget is over $500 million next fiscal year. That's 44 times more than the next country in line (China). Does anyone know that this war in Iraq is costing every single household in the United States $18,000.00 dollars a year.

First off, terrorism isn't an ideology, it's a tactic. Though, I believe that you can't have a war against terrorism as a tactic. Seriously, think of a war against other tactics. A War Against Guerilla Warfare. Makes no sense.

Second, you most certainly can fight an ideology with war. Fascism and communism come to mind. A more appropriate name for Bush's War on Terror, albeit more wordy, is a War on Terrorism Caused by Religious Fundamentalism. And religious fundamentalism is certainly something you can fight. Not easily, and war might not be the most efficient option, but it can work. I personally think killing the fundamentalists is useless unless you address what created them in the first place. Namely a lack of a proper education, especially one not steeped in religious fervor, and no economic prospects. Until those are solved, killing won't help and in fact might even breed more religious fundamentalists.

Oh and Bodi, in answer to the OP, yes I do believe that religious fundamentalists are at war with the west.

*edit* Bodi, any objection to me changing the title to read "Terror"?

 

[Iriemon]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

First off, terrorism isn't an ideology, it's a tactic. Though, I believe that you can't have a war against terrorism as a tactic. Seriously, think of a war against other tactics. A War Against Gorilla Warfare. Makes no sense.

Good point but

"He said Gorilla, not Guerilla! Go... not Gue..."! [For those who have seen Captain Ron]. : )

 

[Kelzie]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

Good point but

"He said Gorilla, not Guerilla! Go... not Gue..."! [For those who have seen Captain Ron]. : )

Damn it. Thank god for unlimited edit power.


I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Flea]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

Ahhhhh

The war on TEAR! The Title. Thanks Kelzie, you should just change it, unless he really meant w War on Tear, as in the Wheel of Time "Tear"

 

[Kelzie]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

Ahhhhh

The war on TEAR! The Title. Thanks Kelzie, you should just change it, unless he really meant w War on Tear, as in the Wheel of Time "Tear"

Aight. I'll change it back if you really did mean the war on tear Bodi. :2wave:

 

[Iriemon]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

Damn it. Thank god for unlimited edit power.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

In the movie "Captain Ron" (which is well worth watching for a comedy) the well meaning but somewhat flaky hired captain (played by Kurt Russel) warns the perturbed and uptight boat owner (Martin Short) to be careful about walking thru the jungles of a Carribean Isle because there were goorillas out there. The know-it-all owner rolls his eyes and lectures the Cap about how gorillas are indigenous to sub-sahara Africa and that there are no gorillas in the Carribean. Cap says, OK boss, I warned you.

As the owner is stomping thru the jungle, he walks right into a rifle pointed at his face, and is captured by a band of guerillas.

Captain Ron is somewhat of a cult movie, and despite its mediocre ratings many put it as one of their all time comdey favorites.

Captain Ron (1992)

 

[Kelzie]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

In the movie "Captain Ron" (which is well worth watching for a comedy) the well meaning but somewhat flaky hired captain (played by Kurt Russel) warns the perturbed and uptight boat owner (Martin Short) to be careful about walking thru the jungles of a Carribean Isle because there were goorillas out there. The know-it-all owner rolls his eyes and lectures the Cap about how gorillas are indigenous to sub-sahara Africa and that there are no gorillas in the Carribean. Cap says, OK boss, I warned you.

As the owner is stomping thru the jungle, he walks right into a rifle pointed at his face, and is captured by a band of guerillas.

Captain Ron is somewhat of a cult movie, and despite its mediocre ratings many put it as one of their all time comdey favorites.

Captain Ron (1992)

Well, I figured that was what you were talking about. What I meant was I went back and corrected my snaffu and...never mind. Both jokes are ruined now. My bad. :doh

 

[Flea]

Originally Posted by Kelzie
Aight. I'll change it back if you really did mean the war on tear Bodi.

Cross your fingers. He has a wicked temper :lol:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Kelzie:
First off, terrorism isn't an ideology, it's a tactic. Though, I believe that you can't have a war against terrorism as a tactic. Seriously, think of a war against other tactics. A War Against Guerilla Warfare. Makes no sense.

Second, you most certainly can fight an ideology with war. Fascism and communism come to mind. A more appropriate name for Bush's War on Terror, albeit more wordy, is a War on Terrorism Caused by Religious Fundamentalism. And religious fundamentalism is certainly something you can fight. Not easily, and war might not be the most efficient option, but it can work. I personally think killing the fundamentalists is useless unless you address what created them in the first place. Namely a lack of a proper education, especially one not steeped in religious fervor, and no economic prospects. Until those are solved, killing won't help and in fact might even breed more religious fundamentalists.

We didn't fight fascism! We fought Nazi's! And their Axis powers allies. That is a tangible enemy with a definate ending to the war. The WOT has no definitive enemy and certainly no way to predict when (or how) we get to VE or VJ day.

As far as this statement...

Originally posted by Kelzie:
I personally think killing the fundamentalists is useless unless you address what created them in the first place.

...I do think we need to get to the root causes. However, with respect to this statement...

Namely a lack of a proper education, especially one not steeped in religious fervor, and no economic prospects.

...I couldn't help but notice your omission of the role our foreign policy plays in enabling this hatred. It is just a little too convenient to always blame "them" for the problems in our lives. It is also irresponsible.

 

[Iriemon]

We didn't fight fascism! We fought Nazi's! And their Axis powers allies. That is a tangible enemy with a definate ending to the war. The WOT has no definitive enemy and certainly no way to predict when (or how) we get to VE or VJ day.

This is true. During WWII we did not invade Spain, even though that was a fascist state.

 

[Kelzie]

We didn't fight fascism! We fought Nazi's! And their Axis powers allies. That is a tangible enemy with a definate ending to the war. The WOT has no definitive enemy and certainly no way to predict when (or how) we get to VE or VJ day.

Is that so? And the Nazi's were...what? An ideology? You can certainly fight an ideology. It just becomes more difficult when a country doesn't represent the ideology, or vice versa.

As far as this statement......I do think we need to get to the root causes. However, with respect to this statement......I couldn't help but notice your omission of the role our foreign policy plays in enabling this hatred. It is just a little too convenient to always blame "them" for the problems in our lives. It is also irresponsible.

Which foreign policy were you talking about, exactly? I mentioned that the War on Terror without correcting the social problems would lead to more fundamentalism. Is that what you are referring to? Or are you wanting to being up colonialism?

 

[Kelzie]

This is true. During WWII we did not invade Spain, even though that was a fascist state.

But are they still fascist?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Kelzie:
Is that so? And the Nazi's were...what? An ideology? You can certainly fight an ideology. It just becomes more difficult when a country doesn't represent the ideology, or vice versa.

If you think you can, prove it! Tell me specifically how it ends. In WWII, we knew the war ended when we defeated Germany and Japan. When they surrendered. Now tell Ms. Mod, how does this war end?

Originally posted by Kelzie:
Which foreign policy were you talking about, exactly? I mentioned that the War on Terror without correcting the social problems would lead to more fundamentalism. Is that what you are referring to? Or are you wanting to being up colonialism?

The foreign policy

• that interferes in the internal affairs of sovereign nations.
• that invades other country's in violation of all applicable laws.
• that commits acts of un-provoked military aggression for the same reason a dog licks its balls!
• that is enabled from so much hypocrisy, that truth, justice and the American way are thrown out the window.
• that generates the most obscene defense budget in the world.
• that is a result of a bunch of narcisstic hawks thinking they can do whatever they f.u.c.k.i.n.g please on someone else's land with impunity.
• that makes GI's think they can ram buses and drive against oncoming traffic in Bagdad.

The fact that you would even ask this question is disgusting.

 

[Kelzie]

If you think you can, prove it! Tell me specifically how it ends. In WWII, we knew the war ended when we defeated Germany and Japan. When they surrendered. Now tell Ms. Mod, how does this war end?

Prove what? That we defeated fascism during WWII? Do you see any fascist nations? No? I rest my case. In all seriousness, fascism was an ideology that was attempting to expand. If we had not defeated the fascists nations, there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't have.

The foreign policy

• that interferes in the internal affairs of sovereign nations.
• that invades other country's in violation of all applicable laws.
• that commits acts of un-provoked military aggression for the same reason a dog licks its balls!
• that is enabled from so much hypocrisy, that truth, justice and the American way are thrown out the window.
• that generates the most obscene defense budget in the world.
• that is a result of a bunch of narcisstic hawks thinking they can do whatever they f.u.c.k.i.n.g please on someone else's land with impunity.
• that makes GI's think they can ram buses and drive against oncoming traffic in Bagdad.

The fact that you would even ask this question is disgusting.

Of your little list...only these two really would affect Iraq. I mean, honestly, what would the Iraqi people care if we had a huge defense budget?

that interferes in the internal affairs of sovereign nations.
that invades other country's in violation of all applicable laws.

I already addressed the second one. Without fixing the social condition that lead to religious fundamentalism, invading the country will only create more fundamentalists. As to interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign nations...that's slightly more complicated. I'm sure there are certain interferences by the US that may have retarded Iraqi's economic growth, but I do not know enough to expound on it. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

 

[dragonslayer]

yes of course the war on terror is real. Once we get out of Iraq, we can return to the war on terror. International terrorism seems to be spreading
as the war in Iraq continues. We are creating terrorist and antiAmerican sentiment. Time to end Bush's little war in Iraq.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Kelzie:
Prove what?

How you can fight a non-tangible such as a "tactic" or "ideology". Who do you battle? Where do you battle? How do you battle? And when do you know you don't have to battle any more?

Originally posted by Kelzie:
That we defeated fascism during WWII?

Stop playing these god-damn word games! We defeated the German army! The Japanese army. The Italian army. Their navy's and air force as well. We were fighting the collective military's of these nations. We were not at war with fascism! You're not gonna re-write history here. Not in this discussion.

Originally posted by Kelzie:
Do you see any fascist nations? No? I rest my case.

Your case was thrown out of court because you tried to litigate it on the wrong docket.

Originally posted by Kelzie:
In all seriousness, fascism was an ideology that was attempting to expand.

No, it was Hitler's army that was trying to expand.
(Thanks, now I sound like TOT)

Originally posted by Kelzie:
If we had not defeated the fascists nations, there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't have.

What wouldn't have?

Originally posted by Kelzie:
Of your little list...only these two really would affect Iraq. I mean, honestly, what would the Iraqi people care if we had a huge defense budget?

We were talking about fighting a war against a "tacticology" (WOT), the discussion wasn't specifically limited to Iraq.

Originally posted by Kelzie:
I already addressed the second one.

You haven't addressed anything yet.

Originally posted by Kelzie:
Without fixing the social condition that lead to religious fundamentalism,

There's nothing to fix! You just don't do it. People have the right to self-determination. It's none of your business how they want to spend their time, unless your rights are infringed upon or we, as a nation, are attacked with a significant force. Or we have UNSC authorization to go f.u.c.k. with people. Concentrate on fixing your own god-damn problems before you start talking about others.

Originally posted by Kelzie:
invading the country will only create more fundamentalists.

It will create a lot more than just fundamentalists. All of it bad.

Originally posted by Kelzie:
As to interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign nations...that's slightly more complicated.

Not complicated at all. You just don't do it.

Originally posted by Kelzie:
I'm sure there are certain interferences by the US that may have retarded Iraqi's economic growth, but I do not know enough to expound on it. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

I'd love too!

• How about pressuring the UN to maintain over 10 years of sanctions so harsh it killed half their babies?
• How about covertly bombing the s.h.i.t out of them for those years while telling people you were just doing no-fly zone enforcement?
• How about just before those sanctions were finally going to be lifted, thus allowing them to sell oil on the world market, oil of which there was no way they would sell any to the US, the US conveniently attacks and privatizes their oil industry?
• How about telling the same bullshit lies (leading up to the Iraq war) now with Iran?

You know, the President of Iran never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the planet. That was another lie by the pro-war pundits.

I didn't even have to get into the s.h.i.t we did in our own hemi-sphere, south of here.

I'll stop there for now, but I'm certainly not done...

 

[Feela]

I think that there are a few radical muslims who despise the west and would love to and have attacked it, but the idea that it is this threat that motivates most of the actions of the western powers in this area is laughable on the face of it.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

This is true. During WWII we did not invade Spain, even though that was a fascist state.

Nor did you invade communist Russia.

 

[Iriemon]

Whether the war on terror is really or not, it is clear we haven't won it yet. I looked in the dictionary and sure enough, it is *still* there.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

The war on terror is a bunch of bullshit! I've said it many times, you cannot have a war against an ideology. There is no tangible enemy and no way to predict an ending. We are now in a perpetual state of war with no end in sight. And because of this, the government is taking away our rights, playing the god-damn fear card everytime they want un-Constitutional legislation passed (ie, MCA, Patriot Act, etc.) that is just accepted by the many chicken-littles of this country because they think there's a terrorist on every street corner.

This is the same lame rap they [the government] used in the War on Drugs, War on Crime and War on Whatever. And the same organizations that fought and lost those wars, are fighting this one too! I don't buy the rap. You know what the War on Terror means to me? If I see UBL in my neighborhood, I notify the AHJ. And that's all it means to me. If I see a crime, I report it. That's it.

What we need to do is question why our defense budget is over $500 million next fiscal year. That's 44 times more than the next country in line (China). Does anyone know that this war in Iraq is costing every single household in the United States $18,000.00 dollars a year.

So what is your solution because if you're not going to fight Islamic Fascism you have two choices, you can either convert to Islam or allow them to slaughter our civilians in mass.

 

[EAGLE1]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

Well once we get all our western forces out of the ME and settle the Palestinian thing I think the War on terror will be over. Thats probably the way to win it. Undermining the extremists cause is the best way to defeat terrorism.

 

[Feela]

Re: Is the "War on Tear" real?

So what is your solution because if you're not going to fight Islamic Fascism you have two choices, you can either convert to Islam or allow them to slaughter our civilians in mass.

This just shows the level of gullibility of the average westerner on this subject, if you stopped and thought about it you'd realise the idea that the Islamic fundamentalists could slaughter or conquer the west is absurd.

In the last ten years far more americans have been murdered by each other than by Islamic extremists.