Is the US a Christian country?

Somerville · Apr 4, 2015

vesper said:
No the U.S. is not specifically a Christian nation. There are synagogues that were established here long before many Christian denominations.

Before the Constitution there was the Declaration of Independence where the writer did not refer to God as Jesus but did acknowledge a belief in a Supreme Being. Throughout the document a reference to God is made four some say five times. I'll start off with two that are connected, " Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God". Who is responsible for “the laws of nature” but God......certainly not man nor nature itself? From the “laws of nature” sprang an awareness of natural law sometimes called common sense which we seem to be in real short supply these days. It was understood by early philosophers to be a source of higher law that never changes. Nature's law is best explained by Cicero, a Roman politician, as early as the 1st Century B. C. and whose philosophy influenced the Founders. Of course what Cicero wrote predated the existence of Christianity when he stated “Nor may any other law override it, (Nature's Law) nor may it be repealed as a whole or in part… Nor is it one thing at Rome and another at Athens, one thing today and another tomorrow, but one eternal and unalterable law, that binds all nations forever.” Of “Nature’s God,” the second reference to deity is, of course, more explicit and needs no explanation.

The third reference to God in the Declaration of Independence is the word “Creator” found in the second paragraph. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” This boldly identified our base for at least three unalienable rights as God, and the Founders identified this truth as self-evident. Any person endowed with common sense or reason (as Cicero explained in the laws of nature) should come to this conclusion without difficulty.

The fourth and fifth references to God are found in the last paragraph. “We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown…”

The fifth and last reference to God asks for God's divine protection in our course of action. “And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”
There was no dissent noted with respect to these references to God in this document by any of the participants then, nor should there be now.
The Founders understood in order to have a self governing system it requires people to be of good moral character. Something quite lacking in today's society which requires more laws to be implemented and with each new law freedom is lost.

Constant references to the Declaration of Independence for the ones who see America as a Christian nation when for some reason, the actual founding document of the nation - The US Constitution - doesn't mention God at all and specifically says that ". . . no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust"

I wonder why that might be.

Then there are the various claims about English Common Law, the foundation of the legal system in much of the English-speaking world, being part of the Christian heritage - Thomas Jefferson didn't think that was the case

Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law. . . .

For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement of England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of the Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law ... This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it ... That system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

vesper · Apr 4, 2015

Somerville said:
Constant references to the Declaration of Independence for the ones who see America as a Christian nation when for some reason, the actual founding document of the nation - The US Constitution - doesn't mention God at all and specifically says that ". . . no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust"

I wonder why that might be.

Then there are the various claims about English Common Law, the foundation of the legal system in much of the English-speaking world, being part of the Christian heritage - Thomas Jefferson didn't think that was the case

You just denied the first true document of our founding (Declaration of Independence) as being irrelevant because it mentioned a Supreme Being and those Founders involved totally in agreement in its signing. And then you want to point to the Constitution that does not mention God. Did it ever occur to you that the importance of Religious liberty to the Founders is why they listed it the VERY FIRST LIBERTY in the Consitution? Did you EVER give that any thought?

DA60 · Apr 4, 2015

Jesus Christ...of course it's not.

Logicman · Apr 4, 2015

The first reference to God as the foundation of an American colony was noted in the ‘Mayflower Compact,’ dated November 11, 1620:

“….Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and advancement of
the Christian faith, and the honour of our king and country, a
voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia;
Do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the presence of
God and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together
into a Civil Body….”

Many of the founding fathers recognized that the principles of civil law were inseparably linked to Biblical truths. James Wilson, one of the original Supreme Court Justices, and a signer of the Constitution, explained,

“Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants…”

Additionally, the United States Supreme Court specifically recognized America as a Christian nation. In the case “Church of the Holy Trinity vs. the United States” (Feb. 29, 1892, US457-458), Justice Josiah Brewer, following a lengthy and exhaustive search of early American historical literature, commented, “We find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth….that we are a Christian nation….”

In another Supreme Court Case, “Zorach vs. Clauson” (1952, US306 307 313), Justice William O. Douglas categorically stated, “We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.” Further, in “United States vs. Macintosh” (1931, 283 US 605, 625), Justice George Sutherland affirmed, “We are a Christian people….affording to one another the equal right of religious freedom, and acknowledge with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God.”

Historical revisionists contend the founding fathers were predominately deists. The facts say otherwise.

According to Dr. M.E. Bradford of the University of Dallas, of the 55 framers, 28 were Episcopalians, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, and there were two each of Lutherans, Dutch Reformed, Methodists and Roman Catholics. That left, by Bradford’s counting, three deists and one founder whose religious views cannot be determined definitively.

The Moral Foundations of America « The Righter Report

Manc Skipper · Apr 4, 2015

Some Christianists would fit right into Putin's Russia.

"The head of the Novosibirsk State Opera and Ballet Theatre has been fired by the Russian Culture Minister over a 'blasphemous' opera, prompting further fears about free speech and religious freedom in Russia...."

National Secular Society - Putin continues promotion of

vesper · Apr 4, 2015

Manc Skipper said:
Some Christianists would fit right into Putin's Russia.

"The head of the Novosibirsk State Opera and Ballet Theatre has been fired by the Russian Culture Minister over a 'blasphemous' opera, prompting further fears about free speech and religious freedom in Russia...."

National Secular Society - Putin continues promotion of

I would think those who are willing to violate, trample the religious liberties of anyone a member of all those faiths that don't recognize SSM whether it be Muslims, Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Sikhs fit that bill.

digsbe · Apr 4, 2015

The US is not a Christian theocracy, but there are Christians that live here. Christian, Muslim, atheist, Buddhist, etc... The Constitution supports freedom of religion and prevents the gov from establishing a state religion. In that sense the US is not a "Christian nation" but is a nation of Christians (as well as other faiths).

Dovkan · Apr 4, 2015

No, it is not, end of discussion.

vesper · Apr 4, 2015

Logicman said:
The first reference to God as the foundation of an American colony was noted in the ‘Mayflower Compact,’ dated November 11, 1620:

“….Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and advancement of
the Christian faith, and the honour of our king and country, a
voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia;
Do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the presence of
God and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together
into a Civil Body….”

Many of the founding fathers recognized that the principles of civil law were inseparably linked to Biblical truths. James Wilson, one of the original Supreme Court Justices, and a signer of the Constitution, explained,

“Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants…”

Additionally, the United States Supreme Court specifically recognized America as a Christian nation. In the case “Church of the Holy Trinity vs. the United States” (Feb. 29, 1892, US457-458), Justice Josiah Brewer, following a lengthy and exhaustive search of early American historical literature, commented, “We find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth….that we are a Christian nation….”

In another Supreme Court Case, “Zorach vs. Clauson” (1952, US306 307 313), Justice William O. Douglas categorically stated, “We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.” Further, in “United States vs. Macintosh” (1931, 283 US 605, 625), Justice George Sutherland affirmed, “We are a Christian people….affording to one another the equal right of religious freedom, and acknowledge with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God.”

Historical revisionists contend the founding fathers were predominately deists. The facts say otherwise.

According to Dr. M.E. Bradford of the University of Dallas, of the 55 framers, 28 were Episcopalians, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, and there were two each of Lutherans, Dutch Reformed, Methodists and Roman Catholics. That left, by Bradford’s counting, three deists and one founder whose religious views cannot be determined definitively.

The Moral Foundations of America « The Righter Report

That is all true but the Founders were setting up a government that would respect all religious beliefs and allow a man the right of conscious to practice that faith not just in private but publically. Implementing that did not happen over night for some of faith thought theirs was the only true faith and caused great strife among believers.
Before the Baptists and Methodists established their first church buildings there were congregations of Jews among them meeting in homes at first and later building their synagogues. there's a famous letter George Washington wrote to a Jewish congregation assuring them in this country their religious freedoms were protected. I will look it up if you like. The Catholics were truly persecuted in several early colonies by other protestant faiths. While others were enjoying religious freedom in the 1700's. Catholics were not welcomed in some state governments till around the 1800's even though they were the first to bring the Gospel to North America iin 1610 in what is known today as New Mexico. The mission is still operating and performs mass.

Also there are documents written by Madison who discouraged the state of Virginia from teaching a certain religion in public schools. Because there are vast disagreements within any faith and in public one should not be lifted up over another. I'll be glad to looks those documents up if you like.

We have such a wonderful country to live in where no one has the right to tell you what you must believe. And at the same time all religious rights should be protected as the Constitution states. Unfortunately today they are not and that must change.

johndylan1 · Apr 4, 2015

JANFU said:
Is the US a Christian country

Yes- Why
No - Why

Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty of Peace and Friendship, Signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796

Was America Founded As A Christian Nation? - Forbes

Yea, Most US citizens are Christian.

Josie · Apr 4, 2015

digsbe said:
The US is not a Christian theocracy, but there are Christians that live here. Christian, Muslim, atheist, Buddhist, etc... The Constitution supports freedom of religion and prevents the gov from establishing a state religion. In that sense the US is not a "Christian nation" but is a nation of Christians (as well as other faiths).

Yep. I was about to type something similar, but I'll just say ... ditto.

Josie · Apr 4, 2015

Even if you say yes, we're all still saying the same thing. No one here believes that we're a theocracy.

Logicman · Apr 4, 2015

vesper said:
That is all true but the Founders were setting up a government that would respect all religious beliefs and allow a man the right of conscious to practice that faith not just in private but publically. Implementing that did not happen over night for some of faith thought theirs was the only true faith and caused great strife among believers.
Before the Baptists and Methodists established their first church buildings there were congregations of Jews among them meeting in homes at first and later building their synagogues. there's a famous letter George Washington wrote to a Jewish congregation assuring them in this country their religious freedoms were protected. I will look it up if you like. The Catholics were truly persecuted in several early colonies by other protestant faiths. While others were enjoying religious freedom in the 1700's. Catholics were not welcomed in some state governments till around the 1800's even though they were the first to bring the Gospel to North America iin 1610 in what is known today as New Mexico. The mission is still operating and performs mass.

Also there are documents written by Madison who discouraged the state of Virginia from teaching a certain religion in public schools. Because there are vast disagreements within any faith and in public one should not be lifted up over another. I'll be glad to looks those documents up if you like.

We have such a wonderful country to live in where no one has the right to tell you what you must believe. And at the same time all religious rights should be protected as the Constitution states. Unfortunately today they are not and that must change.

Thanks for the info.

Here's a list of the oldest churches in America.

List of the oldest churches in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

upsideguy · Apr 4, 2015

spud_meister said:
A country of Christians, yes. A Christian country, no.

... a country of cultural Christians, maybe; but real Christians are in the minority in the country.

shrubnose · Apr 5, 2015

JANFU said:
Is the US a Christian country

Yes- Why

No - Why

Click to expand...

Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty of Peace and Friendship, Signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796

Was America Founded As A Christian Nation? - Forbes

The USA is a country with freedom of and from religion. :roll:

Read the U.S. Constitution.

AlbqOwl · Apr 5, 2015

It is all in perception. Patrick Henry pretty well summed up all the comments and stated beliefs of the Founders on the subject when he said:

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
--The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.

If you ask people to name the Muslim countries of the world, we would all rattle off most of the middle eastern countries plus others that we would easily recall.

If you ask people to name the Jewish countries of the world, we all would immediately name Israel.

If you ask people to name the Atheist countries of the world, most would name China and North Korea.

And if you ask people to name the Christian countries of the world, the USA would head the list followed by Canada, Mexico, all the central and South American countries, all of Europe, and many others.

Even in the most recent polls including all the big polling groups, more than 90% of Americans profess a belief in God and roughly 78% label themselves Christian. The next largest group are the no religion people and all the rest comprise very low percentage.

joG · Apr 5, 2015

JANFU said:
Don't know - Just came up before in discussions on other boards. Reason I went to the horses mouth as they say and see what people from the US think.
Though I am sure many secretly want to be Canadian.

Closet Canadians? Or more like chickens not yet on the way home to roost?

Somerville · Apr 5, 2015

vesper said:
That is all true but the Founders were setting up a government that would respect all religious beliefs and allow a man the right of conscious to practice that faith not just in private but publically. Implementing that did not happen over night for some of faith thought theirs was the only true faith and caused great strife among believers.
Before the Baptists and Methodists established their first church buildings there were congregations of Jews among them meeting in homes at first and later building their synagogues. there's a famous letter George Washington wrote to a Jewish congregation assuring them in this country their religious freedoms were protected. I will look it up if you like. The Catholics were truly persecuted in several early colonies by other protestant faiths. While others were enjoying religious freedom in the 1700's. Catholics were not welcomed in some state governments till around the 1800's even though they were the first to bring the Gospel to North America iin 1610 in what is known today as New Mexico. The mission is still operating and performs mass.

Also there are documents written by Madison who discouraged the state of Virginia from teaching a certain religion in public schools. Because there are vast disagreements within any faith and in public one should not be lifted up over another. I'll be glad to looks those documents up if you like.

We have such a wonderful country to live in where no one has the right to tell you what you must believe. And at the same time all religious rights should be protected as the Constitution states. Unfortunately today they are not and that must change.

Washington's Letter to the Hebrews of Newport RI

When your "religious rights" cause harm to another, those rights should not be protected.

Manc Skipper · Apr 5, 2015

Only in America would you see something like this:

Aggressive Christianity intrudes much more into public discourse.

American · Apr 5, 2015

JANFU said:
Is the US a Christian country

Yes- Why
No - Why

Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty of Peace and Friendship, Signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796

Was America Founded As A Christian Nation? - Forbes

OMG, not this **** again. Do you know how to use the search feature of this website?

Kobie · Apr 5, 2015

American said:
OMG, not this **** again. Do you know how to use the search feature of this website?

If it weren't for repeat polls, we'd have no new polls.

American · Apr 5, 2015

Manc Skipper said:
Only in America would you see something like this:

Aggressive Christianity intrudes much more into public discourse.

Yeah, in Iran they'd cut your ****ing head off for holding an Easter egg. Remember that the next time you ramble on about America.

Kobie · Apr 5, 2015

American said:
Yeah, in Iran they'd cut your ****ing head off for holding an Easter egg. Remember that the next time you ramble on about America.

As per the 2011 census, Iran has almost 120,000 Christians.

Somerville · Apr 5, 2015

American said:
Yeah, in Iran they'd cut your ****ing head off for holding an Easter egg. Remember that the next time you ramble on about America.

I don't believe this to be a true statement. There is Christian persecution in Iran but churches still exist and hold services

Apocalypse · Apr 5, 2015

PM David Cameron says we are still a Christian country | Politics | News | Daily Express

Is the US a Christian country?

Is the US a Christian Country?

Yes

No

Do not care

Do not know

Wrinkly member

Truth will set you free

*probably reading smut*

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Pragmatic Idealist

Wrinkly member

Trump Grump Whisperer

Trump Grump Whisperer

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Privacy & Transparency

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probably reading smut

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