Is the Soul Real?

[Daisy]

Do animals have souls?​

No. The Bible says that both animals and humans are souls. (Numbers 31:28) When the first man, Adam, was created, he was not given a soul but “became a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7, footnote) A soul is composed of two things: the “dust from the ground” and “the breath of life.”

Can souls die?​

Yes, the Bible teaches that souls can die. (Leviticus 21:11, footnote; Ezekiel 18:20) At death, animals and humans return to the dust of the earth. (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) In other words, they cease to exist.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502019179

 

[LittleNipper]

A soul as a physical thing has never been demonstrated to exist, no. An argument from authority won't change that.

And you believe in evolution...................?

 

[Individual]

Would you include dogs and cats, creatures? I'm stuck where I wish we all had a soul but it could be just my imagination.

Isn't everything in the arts, literature, performing, painting, sculpture music entrenched with the soul? A warm fuzzy in a winter cabin under the moon and stars? Aren't all these arts of our imagination? Isn't this the recent talk of how can we tell a real human painting from an AI model that painted it? We can't say the computer has a soul, can we? A computer is just a machine, right?


What do I got that ain't no computer got?
We humans have an emotional reaction and continue to act irrationally and no computer even understands what that is. That's why we're better.


Since human beings invented the machines, it doesn't matter that they're smarter than the humans that made them.




But here's everyone's favorite -
There's a book and movie The Iron Giant 1999 where the boy tells the robot we all die but a soul lasts forever.

The Iron Giant | Rotten Tomatoes

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If they possess a brain I would include them as having what we call a soul.

 

[LittleNipper]

Do animals have souls?​

No. The Bible says that both animals and humans are souls. (Numbers 31:28) When the first man, Adam, was created, he was not given a soul but “became a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7, footnote) A soul is composed of two things: the “dust from the ground” and “the breath of life.”

Can souls die?​

Yes, the Bible teaches that souls can die. (Leviticus 21:11, footnote; Ezekiel 18:20) At death, animals and humans return to the dust of the earth. (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) In other words, they cease to exist.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502019179

Ezekiel 18:20​

​

20 The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

Leviticus 21:11​

​

11 He must not enter a place where there is a dead body. He must not make himself unclean, even for his father or mother,


Ecclesiastes 3:18-21:

18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. 19 For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Is this a rhetorical question? Is verse 21 implying that the spirit of an animal and the spirit of a human go to different places when they die? If so, where exactly do they go?


Just so you have some additional data for consideration, we know from Ecclesiastes 9:10 and 12:7 that the spirit of man (1) returns to God and (2) goes to Sheol upon death, which may lead to the conclusion that Sheol must be a place that God is in charge of (see the answers to the related question Do we go to Heaven (because God is in Heaven) or to Sheol when we die? Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 vs. Ecclesiastes 9:10):

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going. [Ecclesiastes 9:10]

and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. [Ecclesiastes 12:7]

However, from reading Isaiah 14:9-11 I get the impression that Sheol is located downward, not upward.

9 Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come;
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
10 All of them will answer
and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!’
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
the sound of your harps;
maggots are laid as a bed beneath you,
and worms are your covers.
[Isaiah 14:9-11 ESV]

If the spirit of a man goes downward (to Sheol), wouldn't that contradict the implication by Ecclesiastes 3:21 that it goes upward?

And what about the spirits of animals? Do they go downward to Sheol as well?

The above commentary is found here:

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hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

 

[ASHES]

And you believe in evolution...................?

Non-sequiter.

 

[Daisy]

 

[LittleNipper]

Non-sequiter.

The soul is not a material thing. GOD is a spirit and that isn't material. You are inconsistent.

 

[ASHES]

The soul is not a material thing. GOD is a spirit and that isn't material. You are inconsistent.

Why did people that believe in a soul create experiments to attempt to confirm it? Of course if they had shown some kind of consistent physical thing leaving the body at death, you no doubt would have accepted it wholeheartedly. However, they proved no such thing, and the soul has slipped further into the god of the gaps.

 

[LittleNipper]

You don't know what Lewis means. What Lewis is saying is that our soul is what we are ----- the body we have is not permanent but a shell that holds what we are; however, our soul continues after the body dies and is essentially our personality.

So C.S. Lewis I know was a Christian and he believed in both the TRINITY & that man is a body, soul and spirit...... You may not wish to connect yourself with C.S. Lewis and let the Witnesses know.

 

[ASHES]

You don't know what Lewis means. What Lewis is saying is that our soul is what we are ----- the body we have is not permanent but a shell that holds what we are; however, our soul continues after the body dies and is essentially our personality.

So C.S. Lewis I know was a Christian and he believed in both the TRINITY & that man is a body, soul and spirit...... You may not wish to connect yourself with C.S. Lewis and let the Witnesses know.

Now who's inconsistant? The soul believers or the non-soul believers? Y'all can't even agree on your thing, yet you all expect me or anyone else that's unconvinced to agree that your particular interpretation is correct. We see it and call it for the special pleading that it is.

 

[CLAX1911]

A soul as a physical thing has never been demonstrated to exist, no. An argument from authority won't change that.

I don't think anybody is saying it's a physical thing.

 

[Pyrite]

Tell me not in mournful numbers
Life is but an empty dream
For the soul is dead that slumbers
And things are not what they seem

Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal
Dust thou art, to dust returneth
Was not spoken of the soul

Longfellow, if I recall correctly.

Didn't recognize it until "Life is real! Life is earnest!"

Thanks for the walk down memory lane.

 

[CLAX1911]

Indeed. There is no evidence of a soul. That is just a silly religious concept.

Well I would point to consciousness as something that science can't explain it creates a rudimentary really bad dogma that your consciousness is just like some sort of magical program your brain runs with no programmers and it doesn't make sense. That philosophy is way more silly than the concept of the soul.

 

[CLAX1911]

And you believe in evolution...................?

Evolution is true believe in it or don't it's still true

 

[ASHES]

I don't think anybody is saying it's a physical thing.

They used to. Some do. Nobody really agrees even that do believe it. And it kind of is. It's you, your consciousness, your being. The you that supposedly lives on after death. Well, your perceptions and personality are controlled through processes working in the brain, a physical thing. Physical damage to it can cause changes to your perceptions and personality. Does that change the soul? Why or why not? It's too many suppositions and speculations and what ifs and is unnecessary and unfalsifiable and worthless as something somehow useful to humanity other than a concept for fictional and spiritual beliefs.

 

[MamboDervish]

An atheistic neurosurgeon has become convinced that our souls are real, and eloquently explains why. And now he has become a Christian. So, is this man scientific enough? Has he lost his mind?

The existence, or non-existence of a soul has nothing whatsoever to do with christianity.

 

[Daisy]

The spirit/breath of life/life force goes back to God...Ecclesiastes 3:18,19 tells us it is the breath of life that God gives goes back to Him when we die...

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Humans and animals alike end up in the same place when they die...Isaiah 14:11...

King James 2000 Bible
Your pomp is brought down to the grave, and the sound of your harps: the maggot is spread under you, and the worms cover you.

New American Standard Bible
‘Your pride and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.’

 

[anatta]

If they possess a brain I would include them as having what we call a soul.

a sentient being doesn't mean they have a soul/ just that they are self aware

 

[Daisy]

Now who's inconsistant? The soul believers or the non-soul believers? Y'all can't even agree on your thing, yet you all expect me or anyone else that's unconvinced to agree that your particular interpretation is correct. We see it and call it for the special pleading that it is.

I say believe what makes sense/is reasonable...

 

[ASHES]

I say believe what makes sense/is reasonable...

I don't think anybody believes their own beliefs are unreasonable.

 

[Parker_Chess]

An atheistic neurosurgeon has become convinced that our souls are real, and eloquently explains why. And now he has become a Christian. So, is this man scientific enough? Has he lost his mind?

INCREDIBLE video! Thank you so much for sharing. I never considered their were aspects of our minds taking place outside the operations of the brain that are completely unknowable to scientists.

And onto whether animals have souls. The LDS Church taught me that they do. And we will be reunited with our dead pets in the Celestial Kingdom. But perhaps that is a heretical teaching? I'm not sure what Orthodox Christianity has to say on this topic.

 

[anatta]

The spirit/breath of life/life force goes back to God...Ecclesiastes 3:18,19 tells us it is the breath of life that God gives goes back to Him when we die...

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Humans and animals alike end up in the same place when they die...Isaiah 14:11...

King James 2000 Bible
Your pomp is brought down to the grave, and the sound of your harps: the maggot is spread under you, and the worms cover you.

New American Standard Bible
‘Your pride and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.’

how i understand a soul as well. God breathes life into the human race making it more then just a sentient being.
it makes mankind the likeness ( not equal but a likeness) of God in that the soul is immortal (like the Creator), while the body is not

 

[ASHES]

INCREDIBLE video! Thank you so much for sharing. I never considered their were aspects of our minds taking place outside the operations of the brain that are completely unknowable to scientists.

Unknowable=unfalsifiable=unprovable=worthless

 

[CLAX1911]

They used to. Some do.

Is that what people are saying here?

Nobody really agrees even that do believe it.

That just means we don't have all the answers.

And it kind of is. It's you, your consciousness, your being. The you that supposedly lives on after death. Well, your perceptions and personality are controlled through processes working in the brain, a physical thing.

This is dogma just like the soul it's something you want to be true so you're just saying it. There is absolutely no evidence that your consciousness is controlled through a process of working in the brain and that it's a physical thing.

Physical damage to it can cause changes to your perceptions and personality.

What is perception and personality have to do with consciousness?

Does that change the soul? Why or why not?

I don't know.

It's too many suppositions and speculations and what ifs and is unnecessary and unfalsifiable and worthless as something somehow useful to humanity other than a concept for fictional and spiritual beliefs.

Joe the concept of spiritual beliefs built the society you live in. Did you know that Constitution whatever laws you live by in Canada were derived from English common law which was heavily influenced by Christianity.

Send pretty useful to me I mean how many things has Canada contributed to humanity I think there's quite a few. Would you have been able to do that without things like the enlightenment?

 

[anatta]

Unknowable=unfalsifiable=unprovable=worthless

religion is not a scientific endeavor, so it's unprovable, but it's not worthless. at it's best it codifies compassion and pure love
at worst it is abused to justify murder. Like most things it;s in the way it's used/practiced